Thunderwolves Nerfed

[Torin]

Hi brother,

 

I went through the index. I notice the TWC has been nerf. Now we no longer get 4 powerfist attack, we only get 2 from normal marine and 3 from Sargent. No more knocking down IK with these guys anymore. I have not covered everything yet nor play test any of them. I notice our stormfang will replace our pred. cheaper i would say.

 

Whats you view. thanks

 

Torin

[NightHowler]

The biggest nerf in my mind is the insultingly slow movement. They're faster than infantry, but barely.

 

Only two attacks with a special weapon, no rending, S4, and movement reduced to 10", they get an extra wound but I don't see how that's useful if they can't catch anything but footsloggers. They can still cull the weak but they won't be hunting big prey anymore. Those days are now over.

 

Maybe I'll use them as home objective campers now. They don't seem to be good at any of the things that they used to be good at, and compare to Wolf Guard Bikers they are now far inferior.

 

Wolf Guard bikers are now far, FAR superior in my mind. Move 14", turboboost a full 6", T5, 2W, same number of attacks with whatever special weapon they have, plus twin-linked bolters? I don't see how I can keep using Thunderwolves for anything but "forge the narrative" games anymore.

 

There's not even a comparison.

[Garreck]

Thunderwolves have the capacity to burry targets in S5 AP -1 attacks. Crushing teeth and claws is good for 3 such attacks per model. Have dog dogborn within 6 inches and it's 6 such attacks per model. Plus what ever you gave the riders. Throw in a wolf priest on bike and you're re-rolling misses.

 

Loss of 2" in movement isn't the end of the world. Wolf Guard bikers are finally as good as they ought to have been, but my TWC will feature in every game still.

[NightHowler]

Thunderwolves have the capacity to burry targets in S5 AP -1 attacks. Crushing teeth and claws is good for 3 such attacks per model. Have dog dogborn within 6 inches and it's 6 such attacks per model. Plus what ever you gave the riders. Throw in a wolf priest on bike and you're re-rolling misses.

Loss of 2" in movement isn't the end of the world. Wolf Guard bikers are finally as good as they ought to have been, but my TWC will feature in every game still.

But you're not just losing 2" of movement. Almost everything else is speeding up. Bikes move 14" with a guaranteed 6" turboboost. How fast do you think eldar jetbikes will go, because I'll bet money it's not slower than it was in 7th. With an assault unit speed is just as important as the ability to wreck face (and Thunderwolves will now also wreck a lot less face with only 2 special weapon attacks). I'm sure I'll still have a Thunderwolf or two here and there, but they are no longer as good as WG Bikers.

[Garreck]

If players previously used TWC to chase down jetbbikes, then yeah they're probably even less effective at that now.

 

I think bikes will add a terrific mobile base of fire that has increased in resiliency and firepower (changes to the nature of combi weapons really helped here.) They'll definitely synergize well with TWC, which remain exclusively assault specialists. The fact that bikes are no longer a sacrifice "take" to add flavor is to be celebrated...but they certainly don't invalidate TWC.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

Meh, not really a nerf, rather a needed adjustment.

 

Twc were just too good before and needed to be toned down.

 

It may be my old Warhammer fantasy days speaking, but I like how the rider and mount have their own attacks.

[Yoyo ninja]

I was saying all of this in another threat. TWC are still going to be great, but we will need to use them differently. It makes sense that your not going to be able to chase down bikes or guys on jet packs with a living mount. What you are going to be able to do is hunt down massive monsters, wade through the gribblies they will be bubble wrapped by and still do damage to your actual target.

Or that Ork Warboss that is with his Nobs, they will all go down to TWC.

They are going to be there for taking out hard units while your skyclaws or swift claws will be chasing down other fast units. TWC still have a big role to play but I'm glad they aren't the be all and end all of SWs like they used to be.

[Chaos Lord Tom]

Agreed Yoyo. My view is to give each of them Thunderhammer / SS (as they will become costly) ang go chasing big wound pools with a wolf lord on TW with TH/SS to mitigate the -1 on hit. Potential 30 wounds at 2x ST and -3 AP. Teeth and claws will be icing on the cake and also great tool for freeing them from tarpit units.

[CrusherJoe]

Played a couple of games of 8th last night. Let me assure you TWC are still amazing, because storm shields and 3++ are still a thing. Almost everything has an AP value these days, and having a 3++ is more baller than baller. It's like bowling ball baller (am I using that term right? probably not...)

As mentioned above, Team Jacob Team Captain Canis Wolfman Wolfborn Wolfy Wolf Wolf with Wolf Priest on a bike with some screening units of Fenrisian Wolves is fan- ing-tastic. The WP can just *ding* heal wounds now, and thunder hammers do a straight 3 damage. Having the re-roll to hit is crucial.

8th Edition is brutal. Everything dies. It's awesome.

[Yoyo ninja]

I'm glad to hear they still have teeth (pun intended). I really can't wait to get some games under my belt. This edition looks like it's going to be great

[Bloody Legionnaire]

I haven't done much research into it yet but the gist of what I was seeing from the leaks is that deathstars are going to be pretty stout in 8th. Aren't we still going to have very strong HQs mounted on Thunderwolves? I think that would make up for the toning down of TWC units if you could attach a deathstarish Lord to them. 

[Yoyo ninja]

The writers are trying to do away with deathstars altogether. We have strong characters on TWC, but they will still need support. I think gone are the days of the TWC deathstar that ran around the board smashing everything. Though they will still have their place.

[Bloody Legionnaire]

I guess what I meant by deathstar isn't a deathstar then. I mean a very killy character that can supplement the strength of a TWC unit. 

[Wispy]

Before now Thunderwolves were anti-everything. They dominated lists.

 

Now i would take them for more of a horde slaying approach while taking Wulfen to deal with the monster slaying.

 

The two have synergy.

[CatSmasher]

Here's what I like about them now:

 

I think they will be able to go up levels unlike bikes.

I also think they could pair nicely with a wolf priest with the extra wound making it more likely to be healed. 

Invulnerable saves are more important than ever and the wolf claw is the best weapon in the game(still) especially 

 

[eyeslikethunder]

While they are slower there ability to cause lots of triple wounds will be a big boon in a time of mulitwound vehicles, heroes and MCs.

The 3++ save is great with everyone getting save modifiers. And if I am reading this right and they have a extra attack useful against the hordes

Though I would really like to have them as a option instead of the only real competitive option we had

[TheWolfLord]

Run 2 units of TWC either side of a unit of Wulfen with Canis and Deep Strike Arjac in turn 2 before your charge.

 

4 attacks for each rider with special weapons, 5 with Chainswords and 4 attacks for the Wolves all rerolling 1's to wound.

 

Those plus the Wulfen should take down anything.

[wulfgar hammerfist]

Run 2 units of TWC either side of a unit of Wulfen with Canis and Deep Strike Arjac in turn 2 before your charge.

 

4 attacks for each rider with special weapons, 5 with Chainswords and 4 attacks for the Wolves all rerolling 1's to wound.

 

Those plus the Wulfen should take down anything.

That seems like it could be pretty powerful.  What kind of load out do you think works best for TWC?

 

I was thinking of using one with a wolf claw/shield, one with hammer and shield, and then one chainsword/shield.  That comes to 209 points.

[TheWolfLord]

I'll be honest I'm still not sure about loadouts for close combat units.

 

It's very easy for shooting units now every model can fire at a different target but in assault you're limited much more.

 

I have 2 units of 6 TWC and each is currently armed with 2 Hammer & Shield, 2 Claw & Shield and 2 Bolt Pistol and shield but I'll have to rework them as Bolt Pistol and Shield is no longer legal.

 

I think the 4 I rearm will get Chainswords as they're cheaper and bring more attacks which will be useful but will be wounding on 4+ against basic units now.

 

As I need to cut weapons off and repaint parts they'll be put aside for now and I'll see how the Claws and Hammers work out

[Wispy]

I have frost swords on all my models (frpm the upgrade sprue). Count-as chainswords in a pinch.

[Bartali]

 

Thunderwolves have the capacity to burry targets in S5 AP -1 attacks. Crushing teeth and claws is good for 3 such attacks per model. Have dog dogborn within 6 inches and it's 6 such attacks per model. Plus what ever you gave the riders. Throw in a wolf priest on bike and you're re-rolling misses.

Loss of 2" in movement isn't the end of the world. Wolf Guard bikers are finally as good as they ought to have been, but my TWC will feature in every game still.

But you're not just losing 2" of movement. Almost everything else is speeding up. Bikes move 14" with a guaranteed 6" turboboost. How fast do you think eldar jetbikes will go, because I'll bet money it's not slower than it was in 7th. With an assault unit speed is just as important as the ability to wreck face (and Thunderwolves will now also wreck a lot less face with only 2 special weapon attacks). I'm sure I'll still have a Thunderwolf or two here and there, but they are no longer as good as WG Bikers.

 

 

I have a feeling the landscape has changed re assaulting units too. With the charger going first it's possibly swinging it in favour of those that can 'deep strike' and get bonuses/re-rolls on the charge move.

 

Thunderwolves almost need bubble wrap now (vehicles?) to avoid getting charged.

[Gherrick]

Or let TWC get outflank, and ride in with harold...

[NightHowler]

I will still use my TWC, but for me their role has necessarily changed. They are ponderously slow now, but more resilient with 3 wounds each, making them more useful in my mind for guarding home objectives while my bikes go out and get the job done that my Cavalry used to do - chasing down prey.

[Wispy]

"ponderously slow" is an overstatement.

 

Their durability is obviously nothing to sneeze at, but I think we're under appreciating the volume of attacks they put out per a model. Charging doesn't give you bonus attacks anymore. Pistols don't give you bonus attacks anymore. 

 

5 bikes is 10 attacks. 3 thunder wolves are 15 attacks.

[Bloody Legionnaire]

"ponderously slow" is an overstatement.

 

Their durability is obviously nothing to sneeze at, but I think we're under appreciating the volume of attacks they put out per a model. Charging doesn't give you bonus attacks anymore. Pistols don't give you bonus attacks anymore. 

 

5 bikes is 10 attacks. 3 thunder wolves are 15 attacks.

 

Good point. The only thing is, not all of those 15 thunder wolves attacks are coming from the rider right? In the case of of the bikers all of those attacks are coming from the rider?