Thunderwolves Nerfed

[eyeslikethunder]

surely TWC have 6 attacks 2 attacks for the rider 3 for mount and +1 for 2weapons out of the box.

 

Has the 2 weapon rule changed?

Edit

Ah the chainsword rule changed +1 attack for a chain sword so they do have 6 attacks.

[Wispy]

Yeah out of the box. I'll probably do some frostswords though :)

[Garreck]

Yeah, eyeslikerhunder, it's 5 attacks unless you give them something to make it 6 like a chainsword or dual wolfclaws. In most cases it's 5 attacks, 2 of which are with the rider's weapon profile and 3 of which come from the crushing teeth and claws profile.

[Bloody Legionnaire]

I'm sure monstrous creature's attacks will be at AP -3... Thunder wolves are at least comparable to MCs so I find it pretty annoying the "crushing teeth and claws" don't follow suit.

[Wraithwing]

Don't forget that Canis Wolfborn's command bubble adds +1 attack to Thunerwolves, Fenrisian Wolves and Cyberwolves Teeth and Claw attacks. 

 

So when they're within 6" of Canis, TWC with Chainswords get 7 attacks each. 3 attacks for the riders with chainswords (2 base, +1), and the wolves get 4 teeth and claw attacks (3 base +1).

 

That's gonna cause some serious damage to light infantry, and anything else really, with the -1 AP on the Wolves.  

[Garreck]

Oh, for sure! I was simply trying to compare the most basic stat line to other dedicated assault units' most basic stat lines for purposes of "net nerf" analysis. I think TWC are a premier assault unit still and have not really been nerfed.

 

Bikes have been significantly boosted, (with RAW ability to give them combis and shields and hammers and use them all in a turn) but I still think if you get them stuck in they lose value very quickly. *In melee* they are far inferior to TWC because of fewer wounds per model and significantly fewer attacks per model. They'll be dying faster and not be killing as quickly.

[TheWolfLord]

Yes but 9 of those attack come with S5 AP-1 as default which is pretty good.

 

There isn't such a difference between TWC and Bikes now which is a good thing, bikes are much more expensive than 7th at 36 points base compared to 45 points for a TWC model.

 

9 points gets you 1 more wound and 3 Wolf attacks but are slower.

 

Both are still useful but TWC are now cheaper per unit as Wolf Guard on bikes are minimum 5.

[Gherrick]

Storm shields on wg bikes are 5pts, but 15 on cavalry. Also, bikes get twin bolters and the option of a combi, and can still take ANY weapon they want. Add to that better all around movement, and TWC lag pretty far behind.

[Runefyre]

Storm shields on wg bikes are 5pts, but 15 on cavalry. Also, bikes get twin bolters and the option of a combi, and can still take ANY weapon they want. Add to that better all around movement, and TWC lag pretty far behind.

That's assuming you get to take all three options for very long (I have a hard time imagining a WG biker somehow driving his bike while at the same time wielding a storm shield (that require one hand at all times) as well as a full-size frame combi-weapon AND a large and cumbersome thunder hammer (or a weapon that completely negates fine motor skills, like wolf claws).

 

It just makes no sense to me and I don't see that loadout being legal for long. It's pretty clear to me that the indexes are stop-gap rules that were "relatively speaking" rushed as they clearly suffer from numerous editing issues (like a genestealer magus' familiar special rule actually let's a patriarch cast an additional psychic power....)

[Valerian]

It just depends on how much you're willing to risk on the investment to build that unit.  Assuming nobody right now has a unit of Wolf Guard bikers full of Combi-weapons and Storm Shields, it's going to take some time and significant amount of money (to get those bikes and all the right bits) to gather the materials and assemble them.  Then you're going to get to play with them for some undetermined amount of time.  Maybe a year, maybe more.  Might be a just a few weeks until a FAQ, or even a month or two before our new codex.  

[Wispy]

Storm shields on wg bikes are 5pts, but 15 on cavalry.

what makes you think that? they're both paying 5 from what I can tell. only characters pay 15.

 

edit: spotted it. Lame. you're right.

[crd26a]

I was looking through the leaked images, where does it have that Swiftclaws can take storm shields?  Not listed in the Space Wolves weapons gear and Thunderwolves only get it because its specified as an item vs. being in the Melee weapons list.

[Gherrick]

Wg bikers, not swiftclawd

[Spanish_Muffin]

Someone mind confirming for me real fast here, but can TWC still take double Wolf claws?

The Wargear option stats;

 

"Any model may replace its chainsword with an item from the Space Wolves Melee Weapons list."

"Any model may replace its bolt pistol with a storm shield, boltgun, or plasma pistol"

With those being the only wordings, does it mean that we can, at best, have a single Wolf Claw (we can only replace the melee weapon for one)??

I have a dozen TWC modelled with double Wolf Claws and I'm wondering if it's time to start hacking them apart to make them legal...

[NightHowler]

I'd wait until our codex comes out before mutilating your models. I expect at least a few of our rules to change or be clarified.

[Gherrick]

I agree. Short term, just proxy them as needed.

[Sven Dragonfire]

And this is why my gaming group and I don't play 40k anymore... Gw don't care about existing players.... spend hours painting models and then expect us to tear them apart... bad gw.

[Gherrick]

And this is why my gaming group and I don't play 40k anymore... Gw don't care about existing players.... spend hours painting models and then expect us to tear them apart... bad gw.

A bit hyperbolic, don't ya think? GW has expressed more concern for all players in the last few years that previously by a large marge. I agree that they have invalidated a few previously legal options, and thus those models might be strictly unusable, but only in some tournament in the future. At worst, set the models aside, because there is a strong chance they will become legal with our revised codex. The same for some of the newer options that just opened up. I'm working on magnetizing my bikers, just to have a better ability to accommodate the new customization options.

[NightHowler]

That's assuming you get to take all three options for very long (I have a hard time imagining a WG biker somehow driving his bike while at the same time wielding a storm shield (that require one hand at all times) as well as a full-size frame combi-weapon AND a large and cumbersome thunder hammer (or a weapon that completely negates fine motor skills, like wolf claws).

 

It just makes no sense to me and I don't see that loadout being legal for long. It's pretty clear to me that the indexes are stop-gap rules that were "relatively speaking" rushed as they clearly suffer from numerous editing issues (like a genestealer magus' familiar special rule actually let's a patriarch cast an additional psychic power....)

I don't know why it's so hard to believe that our Wolf Guard would be given the option to have 3 weapons. Our stock standard Grey Hunter now carries a bolt pistol, bolter, and chainsword. And it's not just WG Bikers, unless my memory fails me terribly, foot WG and jump WG can take the same loadout options.

 

If it's a question of riding a bike and wielding 3 things, I'd have to say it's no more outrageous than riding a wolf and wielding 2 things. Obviously they clamp one to the bike while wielding the other and swap out as needed.

 

Either way, I don't know why anyone would complain about being given more options. I'd be more upset if I was given less options.

[Gherrick]

We prolly just need to remove the handlebars and assume we can develop the tech for a hand's free bike.

[Runefyre]

 

That's assuming you get to take all three options for very long (I have a hard time imagining a WG biker somehow driving his bike while at the same time wielding a storm shield (that require one hand at all times) as well as a full-size frame combi-weapon AND a large and cumbersome thunder hammer (or a weapon that completely negates fine motor skills, like wolf claws).

 

It just makes no sense to me and I don't see that loadout being legal for long. It's pretty clear to me that the indexes are stop-gap rules that were "relatively speaking" rushed as they clearly suffer from numerous editing issues (like a genestealer magus' familiar special rule actually let's a patriarch cast an additional psychic power....)

I don't know why it's so hard to believe that our Wolf Guard would be given the option to have 3 weapons. Our stock standard Grey Hunter now carries a bolt pistol, bolter, and chainsword. And it's not just WG Bikers, unless my memory fails me terribly, foot WG and jump WG can take the same loadout options.

 

If it's a question of riding a bike and wielding 3 things, I'd have to say it's no more outrageous than riding a wolf and wielding 2 things. Obviously they clamp one to the bike while wielding the other and swap out as needed.

 

Either way, I don't know why anyone would complain about being given more options. I'd be more upset if I was given less options.

 

Horses can be ridden with just your legs, I don't see why Thunderwolves could be any different. That's not true of a motorcylce, you have to be using at least one of your arms (which is why I think they should be limited to one piece of additional wargear).

 

Regarding grey hunters, have you ever carried combat gear? If you don't have to worry about driving, you can utilise much larger amounts of kit than a biker. Clearly a GH will have the freedom of movement to stow certain pieces of kit and equip certain others. Bikers don't have that freedom of movement.

[Gherrick]

We should probably have bikers get the option to replace the tl bolt guns for tl combi, but still allow weapons in both hands.

[Leif Bearclaw]

 

Horses can be ridden with just your legs, I don't see why Thunderwolves could be any different. That's not true of a motorcylce, you have to be using at least one of your arms (which is why I think they should be limited to one piece of additional wargear).

Really, not at all? Why, when skilled cyclists can ride for substantial periods 'hand free'? If it's a matter of the weight of the bike and individual strength, surely 'being a Space Marine' compensates?

 

Alternatively Marine bikes are entirely different beasts, clearly intended for combat (and are far more stable, or at least, the models are), and so likely are designed to not require hand control 100% of the time. Is it really such an unreasonable concept that crazy gene-engineered super-soldiers can steer with their legs/engage cruise control for sufficient time to swing a weapon?

 

Or they could be using the shield with a strap, rather than handle, allowing for the shield hand to control the bike and the other for weapons.

 

So yeah, out of all the things to quibble over, this is one I don;t really get tbh.

[eyeslikethunder]

Yeah my dad used to shave while cycling no hands on his way to work if he can do that imagine what a super enhanced space wolf could do....

[eyeslikethunder]

Don't forget that Canis Wolfborn's command bubble adds +1 attack to Thunerwolves, Fenrisian Wolves and Cyberwolves Teeth and Claw attacks.

 

So when they're within 6" of Canis, TWC with Chainswords get 7 attacks each. 3 attacks for the riders with chainswords (2 base, +1), and the wolves get 4 teeth and claw attacks (3 base +1).

 

That's gonna cause some serious damage to light infantry, and anything else really, with the -1 AP on the Wolves.

. Yeah I have wondering if Logans morale immunity bubble for wolf guard could be used to bolster WG bikes and stop them melting away due to morale checks