Thunderwolves Nerfed

[Yoyo ninja]

Just spotted TWC have wolf guard in their key words, logans no moral on wolf guard will work with TWC as well. Think I may need to pick up logan on his sleigh.

[Wispy]

 

 

Horses can be ridden with just your legs, I don't see why Thunderwolves could be any different. That's not true of a motorcylce, you have to be using at least one of your arms (which is why I think they should be limited to one piece of additional wargear).

Really, not at all? Why, when skilled cyclists can ride for substantial periods 'hand free'? If it's a matter of the weight of the bike and individual strength, surely 'being a Space Marine' compensates?

 

Alternatively Marine bikes are entirely different beasts, clearly intended for combat (and are far more stable, or at least, the models are), and so likely are designed to not require hand control 100% of the time. Is it really such an unreasonable concept that crazy gene-engineered super-soldiers can steer with their legs/engage cruise control for sufficient time to swing a weapon?

 

Or they could be using the shield with a strap, rather than handle, allowing for the shield hand to control the bike and the other for weapons.

 

So yeah, out of all the things to quibble over, this is one I don;t really get tbh.

 

I always liked bikes and melee, going back to the days of when Swiftclaws were called Bloodclaw bikers, but it took a little suspension of disbelief to swallow the conceit.   i think anyone who argues bikes aren't absurd is being a little bit disingenuous. 

 

asking me to buy that another layer of equipment (which i don't think you are suggesting, but was one of the things central to this discussion) - a combi bolter wielded at the same time as a shield and sword (or unwieldy hammer) AND the bikes built in weapons - just takes things over the edge for me.

[Leif Bearclaw]

I always liked bikes and melee, going back to the days of when Swiftclaws were called Bloodclaw bikers, but it took a little suspension of disbelief to swallow the conceit. i think anyone who argues bikes aren't absurd is being a little bit disingenuous.

asking me to buy that another layer of equipment (which i don't think you are suggesting, but was one of the things central to this discussion) - a combi bolter wielded at the same time as a shield and sword (or unwieldy hammer) AND the bikes built in weapons - just takes things over the edge for me.

And I wasn't trying to. What I was trying to get at is that the tooled up bikers doesn't seem any more absurd than the initial premise.

I guess it's the issues of 'used at the same time'. I don't see the combis being used at the same time as the melee stuff, so the WG could conceivably stow the guns and switch to stabbing. The mounted weapons don't really feature, as they're always portrayed as essentially a button on the handlebar (if you want to say that you shouldn't be able to shoot both personal and mounted guns, I'd agree, but that's getting a bit 'scale creep' atm). So basically you're left with stick and shield on a bike. Which seems perfectly reasonable, as various bikers have been paring pistol and stick on bikes for the last few editions.

But then, I want to see more 'gun, shield and stick' in general, Always hate it when taking the SS means losing your gun. This is meant to be future war, every soldier should be carrying a gun .

[postxhumanity]

I'm thinking the WG on bikes might be the best hoard killers we have. If you were to take a unit of 5 and give them all combi-flamers: you move to within 8" of an enemy hoard, hit them with 5D6 hits from the flamers (which hit automatically) plus 10 bolter shots (5 of which should hit with the -1 penalty for using both the bolter and flamer parts of the combi), then charge into CC and hit them with 15 attacks (assuming you kept the chainswords). Granted, these numbers make a lot of assumptions (none of the bikers get killed, you charge the enemy before he charges you, etc.) but I think WG on bikes might have some serious potential against hoards. 

[Skallagoose]

I'm thinking the WG on bikes might be the best hoard killers we have. If you were to take a unit of 5 and give them all combi-flamers: you move to within 8" of an enemy hoard, hit them with 5D6 hits from the flamers (which hit automatically) plus 10 bolter shots (5 of which should hit with the -1 penalty for using both the bolter and flamer parts of the combi), then charge into CC and hit them with 15 attacks (assuming you kept the chainswords). Granted, these numbers make a lot of assumptions (none of the bikers get killed, you charge the enemy before he charges you, etc.) but I think WG on bikes might have some serious potential against hoards. 

First; you would actually have a lot more shots than you are thinking...

5 flamers (combi-flamer)

5 boltguns (Combi-flamer)

5 twin-linked boltguns (part of the bike)

 

5d6 auto hits

10 hitting on 4s at 12 inches

20 hitting on 3s at 12 inches 

 

Yes... light infantry killers

 

 

But i'm still in the TWC camp. They do different things. TWC will wreck most infantry. 5 attacks, give frost swords to regular TWC and a powerfist to the Sgt. All get SS. a t5 model with 3 wounds and a 3++ is pretty hard to remove in any edition. 10 inches isnt that much slower than before and you should still be advancing every turn for an extra d6. In all seriousness you will probably have 1 turn of being in the open with the TWC anyways. If the enemy doesnt kill them then they are a sledgehammer that hits them in the face. If the enemy does kill them they MUST donate a significant amount of shooting to remove a handful of models. Even S9 is wounding on 3's in this edition, so things like plasma and melta will be wounding less...

 

Frankly what im looking at is 1-2 units to TWC with 1-2 units of wulfen on the flanks. Maybe a unit of WG bikers with combi-meltas for big things, but the concept is to have threat overload. Have a lord back up each flank for 2 lords on TWC mounts and suddenly its game over man... game over.

[TheWolfLord]

 

Don't forget that Canis Wolfborn's command bubble adds +1 attack to Thunerwolves, Fenrisian Wolves and Cyberwolves Teeth and Claw attacks.

So when they're within 6" of Canis, TWC with Chainswords get 7 attacks each. 3 attacks for the riders with chainswords (2 base, +1), and the wolves get 4 teeth and claw attacks (3 base +1).

That's gonna cause some serious damage to light infantry, and anything else really, with the -1 AP on the Wolves.

. Yeah I have wondering if Logans morale immunity bubble for wolf guard could be used to bolster WG bikes and stop them melting away due to morale checks

Why wouldn't it? All Wolf Guard units including TWC, Wolf Guard Battle Leaders, Arjac and Canis have the Wolf Guard keyword so are effected by any buffs affecting Wolf Guard

[grouj]

I just got to play a 100 point game with the thunder wolves. 3 hammers and 3 fists with all shields made back almost double their points. This was forgetting Arjac's buff as well. I feel the real trap here is terminators. You can get two squads of wolves for 2 points more than a 10 man terminator squad, you get more attacks and wounds and have better toughness.

[eyeslikethunder]

 

 

Don't forget that Canis Wolfborn's command bubble adds +1 attack to Thunerwolves, Fenrisian Wolves and Cyberwolves Teeth and Claw attacks.

So when they're within 6" of Canis, TWC with Chainswords get 7 attacks each. 3 attacks for the riders with chainswords (2 base, +1), and the wolves get 4 teeth and claw attacks (3 base +1).

That's gonna cause some serious damage to light infantry, and anything else really, with the -1 AP on the Wolves.

. Yeah I have wondering if Logans morale immunity bubble for wolf guard could be used to bolster WG bikes and stop them melting away due to morale checks

Why wouldn't it? All Wolf Guard units including TWC, Wolf Guard Battle Leaders, Arjac and Canis have the Wolf Guard keyword so are effected by any buffs affecting Wolf Guard

the question was more is he worth it to do so

 

Then how to give him the mobilty to keep up a transport or storm rider

Can I bring myself to use stormrider?

 

I think it will more important if you have larger units like 10 man WG biker units as you need to lose 3 twc to be able to fail even then it's a double 6 do so with atknf

Do with smaller units like twc you might rarely see the benefit and deathwolf and canis might be better

Rather than from a rule sense

[TheWolfLord]

He can be placed in reserve and timed to Deep Strike when you need him if you don't want to run Stormrider.

 

Combining with Arjac makes any Wolf Guard units very efficient in both shooting and assault.