Chris521 Posted June 4, 2017 Author Share Posted June 4, 2017 (edited) *deleted Edited June 5, 2017 by Chris521 WarriorFish 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris521 Posted June 4, 2017 Author Share Posted June 4, 2017 (edited) *deleted Edited June 5, 2017 by Chris521 WarriorFish 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gothical Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 Going by your charts, it seems Pask will do very well in either a Punisher, an Executioner or a Demolisher. All those suit my "she's totally Pask" model to a T, so I'm very happy about that! Now this is going out on a limb as this could be a lot of work, the charts are brilliant for showing the outcomes against a range of targets but could you do a comparative post around a set of constant parameters to help show how the different gun options stack up against each other? For example, either the regular Tank or a Commander (as Pask is unique) firing each gun versus a T8 3+ model (the seeming majority of MEQ, Primaris and Vehicle stats) without any Stratagems (given they are one-per-phase). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris521 Posted June 4, 2017 Author Share Posted June 4, 2017 It's gonna look a little messy, but I can do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris521 Posted June 4, 2017 Author Share Posted June 4, 2017 (edited) *deleted Edited June 5, 2017 by Chris521 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H311fi5h Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 Is there something wrong with your armor save calculation? In all graphs you posted the target armor save seems to be worse by 1 than what it should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris521 Posted June 4, 2017 Author Share Posted June 4, 2017 Do you have an example? They look right to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H311fi5h Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 For example the Demolisher and Executioner vs MEQ, wounds and pens are identical, but there should be a 6+ save. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris521 Posted June 4, 2017 Author Share Posted June 4, 2017 (edited) Ok, I found the problem. At least I haven't run any of the combined runs that I was going to do. I'll probably remove my current stuff which was also getting really cluttered anyway. I deleted the images some incorrect data doesn't spread. I'll use this chance to put out some more concise images since I really didn't have a clear plan when I started posting. I've updated the OP with new images. I'll clean up my posts soon as well. Edited June 4, 2017 by Chris521 duz_ 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duz_ Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 Nice work, minitab? Can't read on my phone but will check it out later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H311fi5h Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 Amazing how the Vanquisher Cannons is actually worse against vehicles than the regular battle cannon. What were they thinking? Thanks for the update Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris521 Posted June 5, 2017 Author Share Posted June 5, 2017 Amazing how the Vanquisher Cannons is actually worse against vehicles than the regular battle cannon. What were they thinking? Thanks for the update Yeah, I originally went into this to see how bad the new blasts were. Turns out the the Vanquisher may just be worse than all of them. Though the genestealer cult version does have Strength 9, so we could have a typo here. This change would at least make it more likely to would heavy tanks, but even then, it's max damage output is holding it back. Let's see if forge world can help help us out with this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duz_ Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 Interesting I thought the Vanquisher with Pask and re-roll's 1 would make it the ideal vehicle for Pask... Otto von Bludd 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris521 Posted June 5, 2017 Author Share Posted June 5, 2017 (edited) Interesting I thought the Vanquisher with Pask and re-roll's 1 would make it the ideal vehicle for Pask... Well, if I were to use the Vanquisher, it would probably be with Pask ****** I'm currently looking into the strengths of each gun and looking at the Battle/Exterminator Cannons, I think I'm gonna add another set of data to represent some light vehicles to give them a fair chance to compete. I'm thinking T6 with 4+ armor Edited June 5, 2017 by Chris521 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Captain Ed Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 (edited) Granted,I've not done the crazy mathhammer, but I think the Exterminator Autocannon might be a solid choice vis a vis the battlecannon. Sure, over a million rolls the battlecannon may do more damage due to d6 hits and d3 damage. (May. I don't know. I'm assuming so.) I'm not going to roll a million times in a game. I'm going to roll 3-4 times. 5-6 if I'm lucky. Therefore the Exterminator is a battlecannon that has one less strength (which is, admittedly, a bummer) but *always* rolls a four on hits and *always* rolls a 2 on damage. In my experience, relying on dice can win some games...but consistent, reliable numbers win tournaments. Unless str 8 vs 7 significantly reduces wound output, I think it could be a sleeper choice. Edited June 5, 2017 by Brother Captain Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris521 Posted June 5, 2017 Author Share Posted June 5, 2017 (edited) Granted,I've not done the crazy mathhammer, but I think the Exterminator Autocannon might be a solid choice vis a vis the battlecannon. Sure, over a million rolls the battlecannon may do more damage due to d6 hits and d3 damage. (May. I don't know. I'm assuming so.) I'm not going to roll a million times in a game. I'm going to roll 3-4 times. 5-6 if I'm lucky. Therefore the Exterminator is a battlecannon that has one less strength (which is, admittedly, a bummer) but *always* rolls a four on hits and *always* rolls a 2 on damage. In my experience, relying on dice can win some games...but consistent, reliable numbers win tournaments. Unless str 8 vs 7 significantly reduces wound output, I think it could be a sleeper choice. Well, it appears to be a better choice against the lighter multi wound targets, but the battle Cannon is a little more efficient against the single wound targets and heavier targets. I think these two weapons are pretty close in terms of overall strength. Edited June 5, 2017 by Chris521 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris521 Posted June 6, 2017 Author Share Posted June 6, 2017 I think my summary is pretty much done. I've up my posts in the thread and made the OP a bit easier to read. I've also added an imgur link for the album because I don't think non member can see the images. If anyone has a request, it doesn't take me long (at least not anymore) to spit out all of that data for any given target profile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H311fi5h Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 (edited) I'm really looking forward to the FW book, specifically the Leman Russ Annihilator. Should be ~1,94 damage against T8 3+ with Twin Lascannons in the basic BS 4+ variant. That's almost the same as the Demolisher (and presumably the same point cost), but with double the range. That would make it the best anti-vehicle/monster Leman Russ in my book. I assume the Stygies Vanquisher will be S 9 with rerolls to hit if the coax Stormbolter scored a hit. That's still worse, but at least better against vehicles than the Battle Tank and Executioner. Let's hope for something like Beast Hunter shells. A lot of polishing is needed to make the turd that is the Vanquisher shine. Edited June 6, 2017 by H311fi5h Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duz_ Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 Chris can you do the same for the Baneblades? :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrLoveMonkey Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 I really think that both with baneblades and leman Russ we need to stop thinking of them as a bi tank gun with auxiliary weapons and start treating them like a mobile weapons platform. The main canon seriously lacks punch, but it can on occasion do very well. What we have to rely on is the hull mounted lascanon and sponson heavy bolters to be doing good stuff every turn, and just treat good canon hits as a bonus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris521 Posted June 7, 2017 Author Share Posted June 7, 2017 Chris can you do the same for the Baneblades? Sure, I'll probably have something tonight (east coast US). I have a function template that is pretty easy to modify for each weapon.. It should be much easier to extract data since there are no orders and only one type of driver. While I'm at it, anyone want to take a guess what stats the plasma version will have? duz_ 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H311fi5h Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 The Arkurian Stormblade? I'd guess something like this: 72" | Heavy 3D6 | 8 | -3 | D3 96" | Heavy 2D6 | 10 | -3 | D6 Maybe only 2D6 and D6 but more damage and some special rules. The gun used to fire 2x7" or 1x10" blasts, but there isn't a consistent method how this is translated into 8th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris521 Posted June 8, 2017 Author Share Posted June 8, 2017 The Baneblade data is complete. First off, I know this is hard to read. 10 data sets is really pushing it for a bar graph. Just remember that black is the first set and yellow is the last. Also, both the Doomhammer and shadow sword have two firing profiles, but the shadowsword's 2nd requires "Titanic" targets, so it's not actually valid in most of these images. I just didn't feel like removing it. MEQ Don't waste your time with anything except the storm lord here TEQ Storm Lord is a beast, HellHammer and Bane blade are okay due to 2D6 shots and good armor penetration. Primaris Marines Same as for against TEQ, except the Banehammer can get some use due to poorer armor T6 4+ armor Best performers are the Storm Lord, Baneblade, Hell hammer, and Shadow sword T7 3+ armor The power of the Storm lord is waning here. The best performers are the Baneblade, HellHammer, and Shadowsword (greater than 50% change to pop a dreadnought) T8 3+ armor Same trand as last time. Shadow sword has a 38% change to pop a Leman Russ and though not shown here a 17 % change to pop another BaneBlade T8 2+ armor duz_ and Otto von Bludd 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto von Bludd Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 I'm glad to see the standard Baneblade is so scary and the Shadowsword looks horrifying now. Our Superheavy tanks have been seriously improved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris521 Posted June 8, 2017 Author Share Posted June 8, 2017 (edited) So I would like to take a Storm lord with 4 sponsons each with twin heavy Flamers, load up 5 command squads with 3 flamers and a heavy flamer and crash into a battle line. 13 heavy flamers and 15 flamers 8 inches from anywhere on the baneblades large foot print could be fun. Edited June 8, 2017 by Chris521 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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