Dark Imperium and The Dark Angels [PRIMARIS SPOILERS]

[Welcheren]

  To each her/his own.

Edited June 21, 2017 by Welcheren

[Chaplain Lucifer]

 

 

I would love to see Primaris models in robes.

I am probably a minority but I loath robed marines lol

Yet your forum avatar is a robbed marine. :P

[Ansible411]

What are the odds of an exclusively Primaris chapter like the Blades of Vengeance being kept in the dark about the Hunt altogether?

I like this idea. The new guys wouldn't know about the secret. I forgot which successor it was but they built a monatary world like caliban.

[Welcheren]

Can't recall an official GW chapter like that. It offers an intriguing plot point.

 

Assuming that the rumours are correct vis-a-vis the Lion's return, I wonder how the Lion is going to react when Azrael updates him on everything that's happened, and what this might spell for Primaris chapters.

[Master Sheol]

Can't recall an official GW chapter like that. It offers an intriguing plot point.

 

Assuming that the rumours are correct vis-a-vis the Lion's return, I wonder how the Lion is going to react when Azrael updates him on everything that's happened, and what this might spell for Primaris chapters.

Jonson will accept the Primaris

He was always happy to use new toys of mass destruction

If Jonson will know that every marine can be upgraded to primaris he will order the conversion to primaris of all the first legion

And Ofc he will ask to Cawl new bigger bikes and terminator armours for the primaris RW and DW

What Jonson would really complain about is that His legion is divided info smaller chapters

He would pretend to reunite all the successors under His control

[Welcheren]

 

Can't recall an official GW chapter like that. It offers an intriguing plot point.

 

Assuming that the rumours are correct vis-a-vis the Lion's return, I wonder how the Lion is going to react when Azrael updates him on everything that's happened, and what this might spell for Primaris chapters.

Jonson will accept the Primaris

He was always happy to use new toys of mass destruction

If Jonson will know that every marine can be upgraded to primaris he will order the conversion to primaris of all the first legion

And Ofc he will ask to Cawl new bigger bikes and terminator armours for the primaris RW and DW

What Jonson would really complain about is that His legion is divided info smaller chapters

He would pretend to reunite all the successors under His control

 

 

That assessment certainly gels with his personality in Angels of Caliban: determined to get the job done, no matter the cost.

 

Your last point is what really prompted my question in the first place. I agree.

 

But you also sparked another thought: I had not considered that the Lion would demand specially equipped Primaris versions of the Ravenwing and Deathwing. This sparks two thoughts in my head:

 

1) Would a Primaris Ravenwing and Deathwing be composed of equipment already available to all Primaris chapters (like inceptors and Gravis armour), or would the First Legion reborn (unofficially) have special equipment? The First Legion used to possess a host of unique toys, but since Cawl is responsible for Primaris equipment, they would have to find new sources for special equipment. Simply being the First Legion won't make a difference now.

 

2) I imagine the Lion would revive the whole Hexagrammaton. Primaris Dreadwing?

 

Of course, none of this really matters if GW simply chooses another path altogether.

[Kelborn]

Don't think that we will see Raven or Deathwing Primaris anytime soon. I believe that they will focus on their own wargear like the grav tank.

Dreadwing Primaris is basically my idea for my Primaris chapter. Was looking for something new but still traditional until I found a decent description of the 30K Dreadwing, yesterday.

 

 

*update*

 

New thread for my Primaris successor chapter is up. I'm eager to hear your thoughts. :)

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/335580-ultima-founding-ebon-blades-wip/

Edited June 25, 2017 by Kelborn

[Aziras]

When I made the foundation of my Dark Angels in 2nd ed. the canon was not as well fleshed out.

 

Potential speculation and spoilers below:

 

In my personal twist on the DA secret I always assumed that their darkest secret was that Lion betrayed the emperor. The events on Caliban is clouded in mystery, and exactly who betrayed who got lost in the mess of blowing the entire planet apart. The emperor covered up the fall of the first legion by destroying Caliban and planted the seed of the Fallen into the inner circle of the first legion.

Nobody knows the complete truth, but they are all indoctrinated to keep all eyes open to signs of corruption within their ranks. Each chapter has its own gene-seed primarch. We know from the heresy that even a primarch can be tainted by chaos. So the fact that a large portion of Dark Angels got tainted implies that their gene-seed is weak and Lion himself did not exactly show unconditional loyalty to the empire during the heresy.

The hunt is simultaneously a way to justify the continued focus on tracking down fallen angels, but even more so a way to silence the fallen who possess the ultimate truth.

 

The several accounts of the emperor not using Dark Angels gene-seed to found new chapters (other than for the thematic justification of successor chapters) further implies something to be "broken" in their genetics.

 

For these reasons, primaris space marines will be rejected in my personal canon. The inner circle will not trust them. Almost by definition such a spin-off strand of marines would have been tainted by chaos. Simply because they did not have the indoctrination of chaplains and constant monitoring that is essential to the purity of the Dark Angels chapter.

 

So my dudes will have to do without the bigger dudes. Hopefully GW does not go full-retard on the money-printing machine and discontinue the old chapter variants to make room for a more homogeneous primaris codex where only the color scheme varies. Although I would not be surprised if they did, as the current mess of special units and rules is rather silly. If they ruin the thematic backstory of the space marines. I will just have to stick to the Dark Eldar (or whatever they are called now) - the new rules with mixed eldar lists looks pretty fun.

[BrotherGecko]

Call me crazy but I doubt The Lion will be pleased upon learning about the Primaris. I mean we are talking about the primarch that trusted essentially nobody and we are assuming that he is going to accept these lost children who grew up under Luther's Caliban. The Lion is going welcome off shoot space marines created by a mad magos that he doesn't know, who he has no idea if he has an ulterior motive, who is rapidly replacing The Emperor's creation with one of his own with Guilliman's approval, in a new Imperium (probably post The Emperor) lead by Guilliman himself and the primaris are of the legacy of Luthor....The Lion is just going to be totally cool with that...

 

Its more likely to me that IF The Lion comes back, primaris wearing the winged sword (and the sub symbols) are going to find themselves on the front line of all the worst wars in the Imperium until they are all gone.

 

....The Lion is probably going to be a bad guy...

Edited June 30, 2017 by BrotherGecko

[HsojVvad]

 

 

 The Lion would be ashamed. He sees his Primaris brothers as the true and last sons of Caliban, breaking with the rest of this schemers.

 

 

 

I don't get this. After only reading one Dark Angel book, I belive the introduction of Zahreal (sorry forget the name of the book) wasn't it said in that book that The Lion didn't like most of the sons of Caliban and took to the Dark Angels made from Earth (or else where). I thought he looked down on Caliban Dark Angels because they failed that mission in the book. 

 

Am I wrong and he changed his mind later or is this how he really sees the sons of Caliban? 

[Darkn3ssF4lls]

 

 

 

 The Lion would be ashamed. He sees his Primaris brothers as the true and last sons of Caliban, breaking with the rest of this schemers.

 

 

 

I don't get this. After only reading one Dark Angel book, I belive the introduction of Zahreal (sorry forget the name of the book) wasn't it said in that book that The Lion didn't like most of the sons of Caliban and took to the Dark Angels made from Earth (or else where). I thought he looked down on Caliban Dark Angels because they failed that mission in the book. 

 

Am I wrong and he changed his mind later or is this how he really sees the sons of Caliban? 

 

I don't have the book data either but in one of the lore videos I watched. They mentioned that he left with the younger Order folks and the earth bread Marines because most of the Order was too old for proper gene seeds and had some sort of other treatment. 

[Frater Cornelius]

Is there any info on the precise time the Calibanite recruits were taken to become Primaris? More specifically, are they aware of Caliban going boom or did the whole schizm pass them by while they were laid in stasis?

[Bryan Blaire]

Is there any info on the precise time the Calibanite recruits were taken to become Primaris? More specifically, are they aware of Caliban going boom or did the whole schizm pass them by while they were laid in stasis?

Since "no one" seems to have information about the schism (outside of those at Caliban during the conflict or those told/finding out the secret after the event occurred), hence the DA's whole fight to keep the secret secret, it doesn't seem very likely that even if they were awake for it (probably not, since the project obviously went underground by the end of the Heresy and the Caliban Boom didn't happen until early in the Scouring), it seems extremely unlikely that they know anything about it at all (since they were obviously not at Caliban when the break up occurred and they weren't awake at any time since so that the Inner Circle could tell them).

Edited July 1, 2017 by Bryan Blaire

[Frater Cornelius]

A'ight. I am not entirely sure when Caliban blew up in the timeline, hence I am a little confused when the Primaris project started in relation to that event, hence the question about the Calibanite recruits.

[Darkn3ssF4lls]

A'ight. I am not entirely sure when Caliban blew up in the timeline, hence I am a little confused when the Primaris project started in relation to that event, hence the question about the Calibanite recruits.

My understanding was after the batte of terra but before Guiliman and the rest run off or die and the traitors are all driven back to the eye of terror.

[Fallen Dark Angel]

Discarding what is known by the Inner Circle, the Outer Circle have probably been told a heroic story of the Lion and Luther fighting side by side against whatever heretical forces attacked Caliban as it was destroyed by the warp storms of Chaos. 

 

Any Calibanite DA removed prior to its fall wouldn't know, so they would be ripe for encoding by the Interrogator-Chaplains and Librarians. 

 

I am sure that the DA have to deal with any loyal marines that begin to be initiated into deeper secrets and can't handle the knowledge. Not all can be found worthy of the Inner Circle, can they? The Primaris DA would just go through the same regimen.  

[Kelborn]

 

 

 

 

The Lion would be ashamed. He sees his Primaris brothers as the true and last sons of Caliban, breaking with the rest of this schemers.

 

 

I don't get this. After only reading one Dark Angel book, I belive the introduction of Zahreal (sorry forget the name of the book) wasn't it said in that book that The Lion didn't like most of the sons of Caliban and took to the Dark Angels made from Earth (or else where). I thought he looked down on Caliban Dark Angels because they failed that mission in the book.

 

Am I wrong and he changed his mind later or is this how he really sees the sons of Caliban?

I was talking about my chapter masters pov on his secretive brothers. He believes that the Lion would be ashamed.

 

Just fanfic, nothing official.

[Phoebus]

What Jonson would really complain about is that His legion is divided info smaller chapters

He would pretend to reunite all the successors under His control

I agree that the Lion would resent the First Legion being divided into Chapters. That having been said, I think he would approve of the Inner Circle's clandestine efforts to keep the Unforgiven as united as possible. With that in mind, and given the context of the Imperium's paranoia, I would imagine he'd settle for the current way of things (while certainly using his genius to maximize the behind-the-scenes maneuvering of all those Chapters) until the High Lords saw the wisdom of him having overt control over all his sons.

[Master Sheol]

About primaris DW and RW equipmemt I can see the Lion dealing with Cawl to get new toys :P