Space Marine Chapters and Named Characters

[Race Bannon]

Yo ho ho ... I can use a Baal Predator with my Raven Guard?!

[Toxichobbit]

Yo ho ho ... I can use a Baal Predator with my Raven Guard?!

 

Assuming that you are talking about Battle Forged lists, then yes. Currently you can use anything that shares keywords. Baal Predators and Marines both share the Imperium and Adeptus Astartes keywords, so afaik you can put them in the same detachment. Of course, they wouldn't overlap buffs, but I'm not sure that really matters anyway with the models you're talking about.

[Tyberos the Red Wake]

I'm fully in support of successors not getting the named characters.

 

If you like Dante, Calgar or Vulkan then play their respective chapters.

 

I'm fully in support of successor not benefiting from their parent chapter's characters (and in some cases, even their Primarch!) but I also think every successor deserves at least one named IC with unique rules. Having a chapter with no named characters when everyone else has one is dumb. You need to have some kind of incentive to be choosing your keyword, otherwise there's no point in using anything other than the best ones, just like in 7E where all Battle Companies were White Scars even if they were painted as Ultramarines, Salamanders, Raven Guard, etc.

 

If you choose to use <Carcharodons> as your keyword, you should not benefit from Corvus Corax's <Raven Guard> abilities, <Raven Guard> units, <Raven Guard> rules, etc. However, you SHOULD gain a benefit from picking <Carcharodons> as your keyword. Benefits such as Tyberos, Rage, chainsword access, etc. You should not be left in the cold with literally zero options and less options than everyone else if you pick <Carcharodons>, or any other keyword. Currently Iron Hands suffer this problem, as well as many other custom chapters, official successors who previously used their founder's Chapter Tactics, and all the Badab chapters.

[dogfender]

 

I'm fully in support of successors not getting the named characters.

 

If you like Dante, Calgar or Vulkan then play their respective chapters.

 

I'm fully in support of successor not benefiting from their parent chapter's characters (and in some cases, even their Primarch!) but I also think every successor deserves at least one named IC with unique rules. Having a chapter with no named characters when everyone else has one is dumb. You need to have some kind of incentive to be choosing your keyword, otherwise there's no point in using anything other than the best ones, just like in 7E where all Battle Companies were White Scars even if they were painted as Ultramarines, Salamanders, Raven Guard, etc.

 

If you choose to use <Carcharodons> as your keyword, you should not benefit from Corvus Corax's <Raven Guard> abilities, <Raven Guard> units, <Raven Guard> rules, etc. However, you SHOULD gain a benefit from picking <Carcharodons> as your keyword. Benefits such as Tyberos, Rage, chainsword access, etc. You should not be left in the cold with literally zero options and less options than everyone else if you pick <Carcharodons>, or any other keyword. Currently Iron Hands suffer this problem, as well as many other custom chapters, official successors who previously used their founder's Chapter Tactics, and all the Badab chapters.

 

The problem with this is the sheer number of successor chapters.. that is a lot of SC, SC without a model either.

It is the same issue with why every successor chapter doesn't have some form of chapter tactics or traits associated with them, there would be too many. But you can thank The Relictos for paving the way with the original 'supplement' back across several old WDs =P... at least Carcharodons have unique FW chapter tactics, considering how lazy most of the other ones are, which could have added ONE special rule to make them... special.

[SickSix]

I understand everyone's fluff objections to it, but there is a problem: GW confers Chapter traits through characters. Maybe 8th will be different but if no ICs were allowed to be stand-ins for successors, then every successor chapter would be EXACTLY the same on the table.

 

Hopefully 8th changes that once the codexes actually drop. And you have the problem of generic chapter masters not actually being available in the DA and BA dexes.

[dogfender]

Something neat would be to allow people to spend points to mix and match command abilities to make their own unique special character. Something were you can take one option but not with another and so on.

Alternatively a simple system of pick a type of preferred enemy, then pick a trait from a list. This list could have a range of different options like re rolls, rage, speed w/e but say you only get to pick one. Something similar to what they had with the old IG

Then there is your unique legal chapter tactics for a successor or made up chapter.

[Tyberos the Red Wake]

I'd like a system like that, but where every option is truly equal and you would almost never see the same loadout as another player.

 

As it is, every time we've had a "create your own HQ", people will eventually gravitate towards the same 1-2 identical loadouts.

[Toxichobbit]

I understand everyone's fluff objections to it, but there is a problem: GW confers Chapter traits through characters. Maybe 8th will be different but if no ICs were allowed to be stand-ins for successors, then every successor chapter would be EXACTLY the same on the table.

 

Hopefully 8th changes that once the codexes actually drop. And you have the problem of generic chapter masters not actually being available in the DA and BA dexes.

 

While you're correct, I feel that statement is misleading. The majority of a Chapter's traits have not been conferred through characters, but rather through systems such as 3rd's Chapter specific special rules, 4th's Chapter Traits/special rules, 6th and 7th's Chapter Tactics and special rules. Only in 5th edition was a Chapter defined by it's special characters alone. 8th could go either way. We only have the starting rules for factions and need to wait for the Codexes to see if they will be fleshed out more.

 

Also, there's no such thing as generic Chapter Masters anymore, for anyone. It's not just an issue for DA & BA. At least the Chapter's represented by Chapter Masters are close to an even split between First Founding and Successors. That's something I guess.

 

I'd like a system like that, but where every option is truly equal and you would almost never see the same loadout as another player.

 

As it is, every time we've had a "create your own HQ", people will eventually gravitate towards the same 1-2 identical loadouts.

 

That's a noble goal, but unfortunately quite impossible. Even if you were to come up with a system where all choices were varied but equal (an extremely difficult task in itself), as soon as you throw other factions into the mix, both as allies and enemies and an ever evolving meta where the dominent builds change depending upon new releases and rules updates/FAQs, it would break.