Complimentary detachment to BT.

[Gendo]

Hi guys!

 

I'm a bit jaded with the soon to come changes in 8th regarding BT and always wanted a Sisters Army/Detachment since I've picked up Veridian at launch.

 

Now, I need your expertise, I plan in running min/max CC Crusader Squads either in Rhinos or LRC (bit upset with the removal of Assault Vehicle rule) for about 1k out of 2k points worth.

 

I'd like to give everything else to Sisters (and maybe an IG firing line), which units are really worth their weight in gold? as to be honest i like all of them and can't decide on what will be more effective ;)

[Servant of Dante]

Well, firstly, congratulations on picking up the true best army in 40k :P

 

anyway, afaik, Crusaders can't ride in a LRC since they don't have the proper keyword, but I could be completely wrong there. We honestly don't know what exactly will be good under the new rules, but it seems safe to say that Dominions will still be strong. Min squad with 4 meltaguns in an immolator. If you have marines, then Seraphim probably aren't too impressive, but they're my pet favorite. 

 

Exorcists were good in the past, not so sure now. A Heavy Flamer Retrubutor squad might be useful, but maybe your BT assault units already fill basically that role.

 

Other than that, standard Battle Sister Squads are a solid choice. a special and a heavy at any size, put them in immolators (or make them a bit larger and put them in rhinos)

 

I think others will be able to offer better advice.

[Gendo]

Well, firstly, congratulations on picking up the true best army in 40k

anyway, afaik, Crusaders can't ride in a LRC since they don't have the proper keyword, but I could be completely wrong there. We honestly don't know what exactly will be good under the new rules, but it seems safe to say that Dominions will still be strong. Min squad with 4 meltaguns in an immolator. If you have marines, then Seraphim probably aren't too impressive, but they're my pet favorite.

Exorcists were good in the past, not so sure now. A Heavy Flamer Retrubutor squad might be useful, but maybe your BT assault units already fill basically that role.

Other than that, standard Battle Sister Squads are a solid choice. a special and a heavy at any size, put them in immolators (or make them a bit larger and put them in rhinos)

I think others will be able to offer better advice.

By Crusaders I mean BT, armed with Chainswords.

BTs will take care of infantry, so i'm not sure Battle sisters would be a good alternative to the slightly better ranged BTs.

Looking at the new rules Celestians seem very good with 2 attacks, Meltas with Inferno Pistol and Immolator with Twin Melta...

Also Repentia seem pretty strong.

[Servant of Dante]

Sisters in general aren't great in CC. With Celestians you pay extra points for an extra attack, but the squad can't get good melee weapons. Repentia are nice, but they will die as soon as anyone breathes on them. Basically, your BT are probably a better bet in cc. Repentia might have their niche, but they'll be wounding marines on a 3+, and the marines get a 5+ save. The marines will wound on a 3+ and the repentia will get no save. If you can get the charge off, they're good for a round I suppose. At this point idk for sure since I haven't played any 8th edition. Maybe they're better off than I think they are. I just know they were really hard to play effectively in 7th, and their 8E rules don't look any better (imo). They'l definitely need a transport. You'll have to get a charge off as soon as you disembark (being able to charge out of a rhino is the one thing that's really made Repentia more appealing).

Sisters strength is definitely their specialized ranged units. Dominions in particular. They're about the only thing we have that marines don't have a better version of. And MSU Battle Sister Squads. Melta and a Multi-melta in an Immolator with a twin-linked multi-melta, or some a parallel loadout, but with flamers. You can also do a combi weapon on the Superior. I'd do that rather than pay the extra points for Celestians that will be mediocre in cc at best anyway, but you could try it, especially if you take a Canoness with a melee weapon (that's what I'm going to do, but I only play mono-Sisters).

You could always try some Penitent Engines though, to be precise they're an Adeptus Ministorum unit, but not an Adepta Sororitas unit.

[CaptainHelion]

Repentia will be getting their Shield of Faith invulnerable save. Other than that, though, I'd say you're bang on, Dante.

[Gendo]

Sisters in general aren't great in CC. With Celestians you pay extra points for an extra attack, but the squad can't get good melee weapons. Repentia are nice, but they will die as soon as anyone breathes on them. Basically, your BT are probably a better bet in cc. Repentia might have their niche, but they'll be wounding marines on a 3+, and the marines get a 5+ save. The marines will wound on a 3+ and the repentia will get no save. If you can get the charge off, they're good for a round I suppose. At this point idk for sure since I haven't played any 8th edition. Maybe they're better off than I think they are. I just know they were really hard to play effectively in 7th, and their 8E rules don't look any better (imo). They'l definitely need a transport. You'll have to get a charge off as soon as you disembark (being able to charge out of a rhino is the one thing that's really made Repentia more appealing).

Sisters strength is definitely their specialized ranged units. Dominions in particular. They're about the only thing we have that marines don't have a better version of. And MSU Battle Sister Squads. Melta and a Multi-melta in an Immolator with a twin-linked multi-melta, or some a parallel loadout, but with flamers. You can also do a combi weapon on the Superior. I'd do that rather than pay the extra points for Celestians that will be mediocre in cc at best anyway, but you could try it, especially if you take a Canoness with a melee weapon (that's what I'm going to do, but I only play mono-Sisters).

You could always try some Penitent Engines though, to be precise they're an Adeptus Ministorum unit, but not an Adepta Sororitas unit.

Not looking at a replacement to my CC BT, but something to deal with armour and tough stuff.

I tend to field units that do one job well and Repentia seem like a bunch of powerfists to me, great with tougher stuff out of an Immolator or am i missing something?

Isn't dominion like regular Sisters but able to move one extra time? Won't you rather have Celestians out of a transport and hit twice?

[Commander Dawnstar]

Celestians seem very good

 

There's something a bit surreal about seeing that said after their long stay in the wasteland of redundancy XD

 

---

 

Saint Celestine is something of an overloaded character. She brings an absolutely insane amount of value to the table, buffing Shield of Faith saves, granting an extra Act of Faith per turn and being one hell of a bullet soak thanks to the Geminae all on top of being a pretty nasty melee combatant. If she fits with the general identity of your list then picking her is probably the right choice.

 

Like Dante said, Dominions have long been the go-to quality Sisters unit. They get you a four special weapons (five if you give the Superior a Combi-Weapon) in a relatively inexpensive package, all with the added bonus of an optional Vanguard move before the start of the game to help them get up the field. They're big fans of Immolators and their transport can take advantage of the Vanguard move too if it's only carrying Dominions.

 

Penitent Engines are in a bit of an interesting spot in 8th. On the one hand they're essentially horrific death-blenders with a decent chance of reducing just about anything to chunky salsa on the charge, but on the other they're 129 points each and still likely to fall apart in the face of anything resembling solid anti-tank firepower. They seem like one of those units which is either going to be too fragile to get the job done or that proves themselves the absolute stuff of nightmares every other game.

 

The same is mostly true of Repentia. While the changes to transports mean that it's a genuinely viable option to hide them in a metal box until you need the counter-charge, I'm a little worried that 8th might have emphasised the Glass more than the Cannon. They can definitely hit hard with the right support (A Ministorum Priest and Mistress) but they only have a 6++ save to protect them and no defence of any kind against Battleshock. Like the Penitent Engines, Repentia seem like a unit that will either disintegrate under a half-decent shooting phase or tear a gaping hole in whatever they touch.

 

Seraphim make a nice escort for Celestine (rerollable 5++ saves are always nice!) and are a decent unit but sit in the weird spot of a shootier Assault Squad with absolutely none of the melee ability. They look like they could be pretty cool in 8th with a lot of options from Acts of Faith and a fairly significant points drop, but if you're interested in taking Assault Squads or similar then they'll quite probably bring more to the table than Seraphim. Could still be worth a look though.

 

Beyond that:

• Death Cult Assassins are very comparable to Repentia but marginally more resilient, much more efficient against one-wound infantry and far less reliant on characters.
• Imagifiers are very useful if you want to fish for extra Acts of Faith.
• Retributors can be good for some cheap heavy weapons (90 points for four Heavy Bolters and a Storm Bolter).
• The Exorcist is ... underwhelming, really. Quad-Las Predators seem better in all regards by a decent margin.
• A Canoness gets you the "reroll 1s" aura for a 45 point entry cost.

---

 

Gonna have to agree with Dante again: Sisters' main strength has traditionally been MSU and a high volume of special/heavy weapons, and while our new Acts of Faith have made things a hell of a lot more interesting that's probably still the thing they're best equipped to contribute to the Imperium Faction. Celestine is a very solid melee combatant, but most of their close combat units can't really take a hit without going down in flames. That's not to say that they're not worth looking into - I'm currently building myself a full squad of Repentia and Penitent Engines for 8th - but that they're inherently unreliable. They're not even all that cheap when it comes down to it.

 

I haven't yet looked into how they transfer into 8th yet, but post-Gathering Storm I picked up some Templars to run with my Sisters. I think they can work pretty well to provide some reasonably durable melee punch (and support for Celestine) that just isn't there in the Sisters' list. It's definitely a solid combo.

[Gendo]

 

Celestians seem very good

 

There's something a bit surreal about seeing that said after their long stay in the wasteland of redundancy XD

 

---

 

Saint Celestine is something of an overloaded character. She brings an absolutely insane amount of value to the table, buffing Shield of Faith saves, granting an extra Act of Faith per turn and being one hell of a bullet soak thanks to the Geminae all on top of being a pretty nasty melee combatant. If she fits with the general identity of your list then picking her is probably the right choice.

 

Like Dante said, Dominions have long been the go-to quality Sisters unit. They get you a four special weapons (five if you give the Superior a Combi-Weapon) in a relatively inexpensive package, all with the added bonus of an optional Vanguard move before the start of the game to help them get up the field. They're big fans of Immolators and their transport can take advantage of the Vanguard move too if it's only carrying Dominions.

 

Penitent Engines are in a bit of an interesting spot in 8th. On the one hand they're essentially horrific death-blenders with a decent chance of reducing just about anything to chunky salsa on the charge, but on the other they're 129 points each and still likely to fall apart in the face of anything resembling solid anti-tank firepower. They seem like one of those units which is either going to be too fragile to get the job done or that proves themselves the absolute stuff of nightmares every other game.

 

The same is mostly true of Repentia. While the changes to transports mean that it's a genuinely viable option to hide them in a metal box until you need the counter-charge, I'm a little worried that 8th might have emphasised the Glass more than the Cannon. They can definitely hit hard with the right support (A Ministorum Priest and Mistress) but they only have a 6++ save to protect them and no defence of any kind against Battleshock. Like the Penitent Engines, Repentia seem like a unit that will either disintegrate under a half-decent shooting phase or tear a gaping hole in whatever they touch.

 

Seraphim make a nice escort for Celestine (rerollable 5++ saves are always nice!) and are a decent unit but sit in the weird spot of a shootier Assault Squad with absolutely none of the melee ability. They look like they could be pretty cool in 8th with a lot of options from Acts of Faith and a fairly significant points drop, but if you're interested in taking Assault Squads or similar then they'll quite probably bring more to the table than Seraphim. Could still be worth a look though.

 

Beyond that:

• Death Cult Assassins are very comparable to Repentia but marginally more resilient, much more efficient against one-wound infantry and far less reliant on characters.
• Imagifiers are very useful if you want to fish for extra Acts of Faith.
• Retributors can be good for some cheap heavy weapons (90 points for four Heavy Bolters and a Storm Bolter).
• The Exorcist is ... underwhelming, really. Quad-Las Predators seem better in all regards by a decent margin.
• A Canoness gets you the "reroll 1s" aura for a 45 point entry cost.

---

 

Gonna have to agree with Dante again: Sisters' main strength has traditionally been MSU and a high volume of special/heavy weapons, and while our new Acts of Faith have made things a hell of a lot more interesting that's probably still the thing they're best equipped to contribute to the Imperium Faction. Celestine is a very solid melee combatant, but most of their close combat units can't really take a hit without going down in flames. That's not to say that they're not worth looking into - I'm currently building myself a full squad of Repentia and Penitent Engines for 8th - but that they're inherently unreliable. They're not even all that cheap when it comes down to it.

 

I haven't yet looked into how they transfer into 8th yet, but post-Gathering Storm I picked up some Templars to run with my Sisters. I think they can work pretty well to provide some reasonably durable melee punch (and support for Celestine) that just isn't there in the Sisters' list. It's definitely a solid combo.

 

 

Thanks for the answer, I like the way they can get 4 of each weapons in some units + acts of faith and a heavy hitter Immolator, very punchy.

 

Not sure about the Las Predator, it's 200+ points and in 7th it used to blow up on turn one :( Rather give the Las to IG, 6 shots for 72 points.

[Gendo]

Would I be wrong in using Celestians/Repentia out of Immolators as tank hunters? I have the CC and can give cheap firepower and Las weapons to IG.

Going after fluff, not the tournament winning list.

[Servant of Dante]

I've always thought that fluff-wise, it was weird to see Repentia smashing vehicles in 7th, it was kinda what they were good at, since they had Armourbane. Now, they'll be wounding basically any vehicle on a 5+ and letting it have a 5+ save most of the time. At least the vehicle won't be good at killing them

Dominions are probably the best tank hunters, but I see nothing un-fluffy about having them try and pop a tank. Not sure why you'd use them for that when you're paying for the extra A and the character-shielding ability and can only take 2 melta weapons to the Dominions' 4 (or 2 to 5 with combis on the Superiors)

With the 1 base AoF you're getting per turn, you could bring a unit of Seraphim and let them fly around 24" every turn I think that would be a lot of fun, but I'm a self-diagnosed Seraphim fanboy. It comes from BA infecting me with a love for jump infantry and the assault phase.

[Commander Dawnstar]

Repentia are actually shockingly bad at dealing with tanks in 8th. I'm not sure why GW decided that Armourbane melee weapons needed to take a hit, but for some reason the Eviscerator and Chainfist lost pretty much all of their edge against vehicles. For context, if your best case Repentia-star (8 Repentia w/Mistress and Ministorum Priest in a Rhino) charges an enemy Rhino they'll average 8/10 wounds stripped off the thing. Even when bumping that up to a full ten Repentia with support characters you just barely scrape the necessary damage to kill the thing in one round.

 

Yeah ...

[Daimhin]

Welcome!

 

I play Sisters as my primary army, but I have a BT army which I got to accompany my Sisters and cover their weaknesses!

 

If BT are your primary then I would suggest for your Sisters you focus on Retributors and Dominions. HB Retributiors can put out a real hail of fire for a fraction of the points it would take to do as BT. You could also consider HF Retributors to soften up units for your Crusaders to assault.

 

I 7th I used to love my Vanguard Vets who accompanied Celestine, but no synergy there now :(

[A.T.]

If BT are your primary then I would suggest for your Sisters you focus on Retributors and Dominions. HB Retributiors can put out a real hail of fire for a fraction of the points it would take to do as BT. You could also consider HF Retributors to soften up units for your Crusaders to assault.

 

Retributors are a marginal gain depending on how much benefit you get from the marines toughness, and notably the ability to take a lascannon that can fire twice in the first turn hitting on 2+.

 

Dominions though bring that all important vanguard move to set themselves apart.

[Beams]

It's go melts or Flmaer dominions of NS. Rush up and burn things.

[Daimhin]

 

If BT are your primary then I would suggest for your Sisters you focus on Retributors and Dominions. HB Retributiors can put out a real hail of fire for a fraction of the points it would take to do as BT. You could also consider HF Retributors to soften up units for your Crusaders to assault.

 

Retributors are a marginal gain depending on how much benefit you get from the marines toughness, and notably the ability to take a lascannon that can fire twice in the first turn hitting on 2+.

 

Dominions though bring that all important vanguard move to set themselves apart.

 

 

Depending on what you're bringing Rets for. If it's HB fire or HF (literal) fire, then go Rets. If you want Lascannons, then obviously not!

[A.T.]

Depending on what you're bringing Rets for. If it's HB fire or HF (literal) fire, then go Rets. If you want Lascannons, then obviously not!

 

Not quite as simple. The Rets are 20% cheaper, but the marines have 30% more firepower in the first turn (which gets more points efficient with bigger guns). And of course they are T4.

 

Rets fill out the bodies more cheaply though

 

 

[Beams]

 

Depending on what you're bringing Rets for. If it's HB fire or HF (literal) fire, then go Rets. If you want Lascannons, then obviously not!

Not quite as simple. The Rets are 20% cheaper, but the marines have 30% more firepower in the first turn (which gets more points efficient with bigger guns). And of course they are T4.

 

Rets fill out the bodies more cheaply though

 

Retail do get AoD though. So, they have an 80% chance to double one squads firepower, and a 40pt charactere to improve firepower of any additional squads by 50%

 

Alternatively, they can use that to replenish weapons, or get into position.

[A.T.]

Retail do get AoD though. So, they have an 80% chance to double one squads firepower, and a 40pt charactere to improve firepower of any additional squads by 50%

 

For heavy bolter rets i'd almost always go with the second squad over the imagifier, slots and models allowing. Melta rets get better value though.

[Gendo]

So a squad of Dominions with flamers and one of Retributors with HB sounds good, I have a Canoness which would make sense to go with the Retributors?

None of those units would take advantage of an Immolator and i want one I need something else with meltas i guess so i can use them with the Immolator.

One general question, can i fill one detachment with BT and Sisters being <Imperium> ? otherwise I need a troop choice to make another det.

Edit: Nevermind I've realised that Dominions can use the extra move in a transport as well, so maybe would be more efficient to have them with Meltas and go after a strong unit right away.

In total:

Dominions with Meltas in an Immolator

Dominions with Flamers or 2 Penitent Engines (like those)

Retributor with HB and Canoness

Sounds good?

[CaptainMarsh]

So a squad of Dominions with flamers and one of Retributors with HB sounds good, I have a Canoness which would make sense to go with the Retributors?

None of those units would take advantage of an Immolator and i want one I need something else with meltas i guess so i can use them with the Immolator.

One general question, can i fill one detachment with BT and Sisters being <Imperium> ? otherwise I need a troop choice to make another det.

Edit: Nevermind I've realised that Dominions can use the extra move in a transport as well, so maybe would be more efficient to have them with Meltas and go after a strong unit right away.

In total:

Dominions with Meltas in an Immolator

Dominions with Flamers or 2 Penitent Engines (like those)

Retributor with HB and Canoness

Sounds good?

You can choose Sisters and Templar in the same army due to Imperium. Heck, you can have any Imperium nit in there. 8th is fun.

[Beams]

Sounds good!

 

The Penitent engine is a great model! (Though the acts of building is penance)

[Gendo]

So a squad of Dominions with flamers and one of Retributors with HB sounds good, I have a Canoness which would make sense to go with the Retributors?

None of those units would take advantage of an Immolator and i want one I need something else with meltas i guess so i can use them with the Immolator.

One general question, can i fill one detachment with BT and Sisters being <Imperium> ? otherwise I need a troop choice to make another det.

Edit: Nevermind I've realised that Dominions can use the extra move in a transport as well, so maybe would be more efficient to have them with Meltas and go after a strong unit right away.

In total:

Dominions with Meltas in an Immolator

Dominions with Flamers or 2 Penitent Engines (like those)

Retributor with HB and Canoness

Sounds good?

You can choose Sisters and Templar in the same army due to Imperium. Heck, you can have any Imperium nit in there. 8th is fun.

Thought it had to match all of the keywords, nice.

[Gendo]

I've just realised...does the Dominion extra movement stack with the act of faith?

 

Draft List:

 

Melta Dominion Squad:

Immolator = 68

Immolator Flamer = 35

5 Sisters = 50, 4 Meltagun = 68, 1 PlasmaPistol = 7, 1 Ministorum Priest = 35

Total: 263

 

HB Retributor Squad: x2

5 Sisters = 45, 4 Heavy Bolter = 50, 1 Storm Bolter = 4

Total = 198

 

Penitent Engine: x2

Total = 258

 

Land Raider Crusader: 287

 

Crusader Squad in LRC:

8 Initiates, 7 Neophytes, All Chainswords and Pistol

Total: 181

 

Helbrecht in LRC: 170

 

Rhino w/ S.Bolter: 74

 

Crusader Squad in Rhino:

5 Initiates, 5 Neophytes, All Chainswords and Pisol

Total: 110

 

Rhino w/S.Bolter: 74

 

Crusader Squad in Rhino:

5 Initiates, 4 Neophytes, 2 P.Sword, Chainswords and Pistol

Total: 108

 

The Emperor's Champion in Rhino: 110

 

About 1850, leaves a little room for a Thunder Fire Cannon or else ;)

 

 

 

[Servant of Dante]

Yep! though the Vehicles don't have the AoF ability so they can't use the base Act of Fath (so that's an issue).