Imperial Guard Super Heavies in 8th

[micdicdoc]

Hey all!

 

[insert obligatory "I was a lurker, but now I'm one of you" comments here ;) ] With the coming of 8th it's high time to join your community, and join in the discussion about how the IG will fare in the new edition!

 

Some time ago I bought a Baneblade kit, the one that allowed you to make any of the several variants available. However, in the last edition it seemed quite lacklustre, and I never got round to assembling it. In fact, I had planned to sell it! However, with the dawning of 8th, and the leak of the Baneblade and it's variants rules, I might reconsider my intention to sell the kit...

 

So, what do you guys make of the rules for the Baneblade variants we have seen from the index? Which variant(s) do you think shine, and which do you think don't? Is fielding one of these tanks something you will now consider more so than in 7th? Also, out of interest, what IG super heavy from Forge World are you looking forward to seeing most when the FW IG index is released?

 

Cheers!

 

M. 

 

 

[Truesight]

Ooh. I got this one. Make all of them: Magnetising tutorial

In terms of which ones are the best, my pick would be Shadowsword or Stormlord, depending on if there are other titanic units on the field. Though they are all vastly improved with the new rules so go with what is cool for you.

[micdicdoc]

Yeah, I plan to give the tutorial a go - wish me luck!

 

I mean, I quite liked the look of the Baneblade itself. It's bristling with guns, and the new twin weapon rules make the three twin heavy bolters appealing for once. Overall it seems the best all rounder out of the lot, being able to reasonably deal with a range of enemy units sufficiently.

[duz_]

I am in the process of finishing a Hellhammer as a commission. The funds of said commission also let me purchase my own BB which I will also attempt the Hexblade version above!

 

I haven't had a chance to sit down and analyse which variant is best in the next edition to be honest.

However from my understanding all variants suffer -1BS from moving (the only former superheavy in which this the case). I would definitely go for one with high volume of fire.

 

I would also not discount the changes to flamers this edition. Given how bloody and fast the game will most likely be a set of them to toast any enemies foolish enough to assault a BB!

 

Of course if you magnetise you can always mix things up when play testing.

 

Dont forget to set up a WiP thread in the Barracks here so we can all see your progress! Good luck! :tu:

Edited June 7, 2017 by duz_

[Beaky Brigade]

I have a FW Stormblade that I need to build. How tenable would a super heavy squadron be as any army list? Just 3 or so models seems quite tempting to me!

[duz_]

There is a super heavy detachment of 3-5 that will give you 3 command points...

It would eat away at a good 3/4 of a 2000pt list though.

 

Im curious if with the remaining points you could get enough bubble wrap to make it a viable option .... vehicles are more durable edition. From what I've heard even Leman Russes are difficult to remove so should go double for BB's!

[Gothical]

All the variants suffer the -1 To Hit for moving and firing Heavy Weapons, which is just absurd - they're the only former Super-Heavy to do so (even Stompas don't take this penalty) and don't even get any mitigation on their turret weapons like Leman Russes do.

 

The Stormlord is an utter beast with Heavy Flamers, and basically becomes better in melee than out of melee. Very, very solid and according to some of the playtesters arguably the best variant. Personally not much of a fan of the open-backed models though.

 

The Shadowsword obliterates opposing Titanic stuff. I did not realise that the targeters were base wargear (previously they replaced the Lascannons), but it means that if static it hits on 3+ with D6 hits (save your Command Re-Roll for this one!) then has S16 re-rolling wounds with -5AP and 2D6 damage, in addition to a couple of Lascannons. The Heavy Bolters can then put 18 BS4+ shots into some infantry. This is godlike, yet isn't quite worth the cost against regular tanks, which is where we come to...

 

...The Banesword is my next favourite, a great tank-killer with its minimum 3 damage rule, and is one of the cheapest variants (at least via Power Points). It is perfect for killing regular tanks and monsters and reasonable against Titanic models.

 

I'm not really sure of the point of the Stormsword, all the other variants seem to do what it can do but better, but at least it has a reasonably reliable number of shots thanks to its "rolling 2 dice" mechanic (I have no idea to calculate the average number of shots, especially if you use your Command Re-Roll). Combine that with the re-rolling 1s for damage and I guess it is pretty good at killing multi-wound models, but the lack of mitigation for moving-and-firing really hampers it.

 

The Doomhammer and Banehammer are hard to judge, as I think what you transport in them will be the key to making them shine. The Tremor Cannon is neat for slowing down an opposing unit, whilst the Magma Cannon will hurt multi-wounds if it hits Once again though, I am a little prejudiced against them as I don't like the open-backed models.

 

I don't know how to judge the Baneblade and Hellhammer, both are very expensive but do pack a lot of firepower - but said firepower is often randomised (2D6 turret gun, D3/D6 hull gun) which is a real pain when combined with the lack of moving-and-firing mitigation.

 

As a general rule I don't like taking more than one pair of sponsons, as I feel it looks odd as the front set would block the fire-arcs of the back set, but taking 4 Twin Heavy Flamers will be devastating, or even take a mix of 2 Twin Heavy Bolters and 2 Twin Heavy Flamers to get the best of both worlds - 18 shots at 36" and 4D6 shots and anyone engaging the vehicle, plus 4 Lascannons.

 

I am eagerly awaiting the rules for the FW Stormsword (Heavy Flamer plus Heavy Bolter sponsons will ROCK as the true urban assault tank, keep your pansy Lascannons) and the Stormblade (love massive Plasma weapons). I am interested to see what the 40K Stormhammer is like, but I fear the new "blast" rules will have wrecked it.

[Beaky Brigade]

 

As a general rule I don't like taking more than one pair of sponsons, as I feel it looks odd as the front set would block the fire-arcs of the back set, but taking 4 Twin Heavy Flamers will be devastating, or even take a mix of 2 Twin Heavy Bolters and 2 Twin Heavy Flamers to get the best of both worlds - 18 shots at 36" and 4D6 shots and anyone engaging the vehicle, plus 4 Lascannons.

 

I am eagerly awaiting the rules for the FW Stormsword (Heavy Flamer plus Heavy Bolter sponsons will ROCK as the true urban assault tank, keep your pansy Lascannons) and the Stormblade (love massive Plasma weapons). I am interested to see what the 40K Stormhammer is like, but I fear the new "blast" rules will have wrecked it.

 

Now we don't have fire arcs any more it's possible you could mount the extra sponsons backwards, as it would make more sense as rear defence. In fact you can do a lot of cool vehicle conversions to fix ugly models without being confusing or modelling for advantage.

[duz_]

Nice summary Gothical

[Gothical]

 

Now we don't have fire arcs any more it's possible you could mount the extra sponsons backwards, as it would make more sense as rear defence. In fact you can do a lot of cool vehicle conversions to fix ugly models without being confusing or modelling for advantage.

 

 

Good point, the FW Stormhammer has a similar set-up in terms of fire-arcs on its 3 side guns, so there is even official precedent for rear defence. I have no idea of the kit allows this without substantial modification, not bought one myself yet. Would still mean the Lascannons get in each others' way though. Sometimes I really hate caring about minor aesthetic things like the no-game-impact-LoS, as taking 2 sets of sponsons is going to be so powerful with the new rules (30 Heavy Bolter shots or 8D6 Heavy Flamer hits).

 

Nice summary Gothical

 

Thank you!

[Beaky Brigade]

 

Good point, the FW Stormhammer has a similar set-up in terms of fire-arcs on its 3 side guns, so there is even official precedent for rear defence. I have no idea of the kit allows this without substantial modification, not bought one myself yet. Would still mean the Lascannons get in each others' way though. Sometimes I really hate caring about minor aesthetic things like the no-game-impact-LoS, as taking 2 sets of sponsons is going to be so powerful with the new rules (30 Heavy Bolter shots or 8D6 Heavy Flamer hits).

 

 

I've not built mine yet but I assumed you could just mount a left sponson on the right and vice versa. Like this

To improve the look I'd probably leave off two of the turrets and make the other turrets 'twin linked'.

 

Excited to see that the Stormhammer is in the upcoming FW index book, so that's coming to 40k. I think it solves a lot of the visual issues I have with the regular baneblade, so I may pick one up after I finish my Stormblade (in time for 9th edition)

Edited June 7, 2017 by Beaky Brigade

[Jam Master Flex]

Does anybody know what the deal is with the firing deck on super heavies - can those 10 troops on the deck be shot off/do they count as being in cover?

 

Or do they have to have the tank be destroyed to be hurt?

 

Thanks!

[micdicdoc]

@Gothical, thanks for the summary! Certainly a lot of food for thought!

 

I really hope that when we get our own Battletomb-equivalent book that they fix the shooting penalty for the Baneblade variants; completely absurd! The idea as well with the Stormlord is one I had overlooked. I knew that flamers had a real boon to this edition, what with auto hits and the new AP system, but had never thought of the melee capacity! It would really be jumping in your opponents face playing the Stormlord in that way, all the more so with it's high number of wounds! I think, like you said, keeping the Command reroll for these super heavies is key to utilising them effectively.

 

@Beaky Brigade, damn, I completely missed that the Stormhammer was in the index! I loved it when it was released, but dismayed that it wasn't allowed for IG in 7th. Might have to start saving! ;)

 

@Jam Master Flex, from my reading it seems that the tank has to be destroyed first in order to hurt them. The "Extended Firing Deck" rule in it's entry just says that dudes can fire from the transport, using any part of the Stormlord for LOS and measurement. So I don't think the passengers can be targeted specifically themselves.

[gainsay]

shadowsword is hands down the best. 

[Withershadow]

Baneblade and Shadowsword are my two favorite, and I would have liked the Hellhammer to be my favorite third (so I could have BB, SS and HH :P), but I think for the transport variants the Stormhammer is better for all the dakka. 

 

My baneblade is fixed, being the old FW model.  I have an unopened superheavy box I'll try to magnetize as above.  I want 8th edition rules for the Stormhammer!

[Otto von Bludd]

 From dakkadakka:

Unit1126PLL

 

 

 

Just so everyone knows:

Baneblades are ridiculously OP assault units now.

I played a 2k game with a company of 3 baneblades, 2 infantry squads, one tempestus scion squad, lord commissar, and company commander in a Battalion detachment. I had 9 Command Points and could deploy first quite easily, thereby acquiring first turn. Each baneblade had only 2 sponsons (instead of the max 4) and was the classic configuration, with heavy bolters instead of heavy flamers. The enemy was 2000 pts Blood Angels, with 2 razorbacks, a rhino, 2 Baal predators, 4 lascannon devastators, a Storm Raven, a dreadnought, and a bunch of squads, and Mephiston.

The baneblades were phenomenal. Advancing 2 of them to the front was easy and they destroyed several enemy units between them. The enemy tried to charge them, and one overwatch from all the guns on one of the Baneblades vaporized a Dreadnought (preventing it from getting within 1") and then vaporized Mephiston (because no enemy unit was within 1" when the Baneblade was charged, it could overwatch again). So the same tank destroyed a dreadnought and Mephiston in the enemy's own charge phase.

When the Baneblades /were/ locked in combat, it only helped me and not the enemy. The Baneblades were able to fire to essentially full effectiveness, necessarily remaining stationary and firing all their guns at a variety of targets, with only the Heavy Bolters hitting the unit it was stuck in with. But then came the 9 attacks with -2 rend and d3 damage - the Baneblade was routinely winning combat while being completely untouchable by enemy shooting.

What's more, when the enemy Fell Back, they could shoot the baneblade (with the unit that did not fall back), but then the Baneblade could simply charge them again (or lock another unit up with Consolidate and make itself unable to be shot again) and get 9 more attacks at -2 rend and d3 damage, hitting first.

The Baneblade's ability to fire while an enemy unit is within 1", even at other targets, essentially makes it immune to enemy shooting at times unless the enemy wishes to continue to fall back before its advance.

 

 

 

Sounds great to me.

[duz_]

Hrmm interesting tactic I didn't think about that ... especially if you kit it with the dual TL heavy flamers!

[LordHonsou]

Been playing a shadowsword, no sponsons, no upgrades, as the anchor for an artillery company. Whst a beautiful tank. What that thing does to knights, riptides, primarchs, landraiders... I'm in love.

 

I'm not sure I'd consider adding sponsons. The numbers on heavy bolters and heavy flamers aren't great. People have raved about them but especially heavy bolters have been extremely underwhelming. 4+ lascannons have never been really reliable. Plus saving the points and sticking them on a different platform keeps them protected from the huge amount of fire these things draw. Best use of points has been conscripts and commissars to bubble wrap the tank from t1 charges and deep strikers. Most armies I face can't outshoot the premier guns in the game and so are already tailored to roll alpha strikes against them. 20 conscripts and a commissar shuts that down pretty well, at least long enough to consume 500 points of knight.

[WarriorFish]

Interesting reading, maybe my Baneblade needs a dust off? Last time it was used it crushed Draigo under its tracks so maybe it can keep the reputation in 8th :lol:

[Servant of Dante]

So you're saying that this is the edition to drive closer and hit it with your sword?

 

I almost want a baneblade now :P

[micdicdoc]

With the release of Forge World's Index Astra Militarum we are now in a position to consider the FW super heavy options available to guard.

 

To that end, are there any FW units that are sticking out to you guys? For one, I think the Malcador Defender has taken an incredible boost in this edition. What with firing arcs no longer being a restriction on what you can actually shoot at, you can now bring all seven heavy bolters to bear! The additional rule "Defender Protocols", which adds one to all overwatch rolls is a nice little addition too.

[Withershadow]

I'm actually trying to figure out what happened to the battlecannon/demolisher cannon Malcador load-out... I got two of those. :(

[Gen.Steiner]

Well this is all just good news! I wish I'd not sold my old Baneblade now... ah well!

[Bmseifer]

Just played the Shadowsword in a game yesterday. I had to give up first turn and a Hellforged Spartan put 18 wounds on my Shadowsword reducing it to bs5+. Come my first turn the big tank in turn removed the spartan from play(getting +1 to hit on a 'titanic' unit). I went with 4 sponson with flamers and it made the tank almost impossible to charge.

 

I really liked the offensive output, even though I was reduced to BS5+ before I even got to shoot. It certainly doesnt feel invincible, with 3+ save it can be easily focused by Lascannons and simliar weapons in a single turn

[Gen.Steiner]

But that is an awful lot of firepower heading towards the super-heavy, and not anything else in your army.