Why are there so few old marines (1000 years or older)

[Vathariel]

The only non Primarch characters I can think of 1000 years or older are Abaddon, Dante and Bjorn the Fell-Handed. There were hundreds of thousands of Space Marines during the Horus Heresy and now there are roughly 1 million Space Marines in every chapter combined so why are there so few ancient Space Marines?

[Brother Casman]

The short answer is warfare. In general, no marine lives more than a few centuries because they eventually die in war.

[Black Cohort]

Marines might be functionally immortal, but they do seem to start slowing down once they are several hundred years old. Coupled with their leadership style of leading by example and eventually they get unlucky.

[Olis]

There is the fact that, if we infer an average age from descriptions of 'old' space marines, the life span of a marine is measured in maybe four centuries (give or take). Blood Angels and Space Wolves seem to be exceptions to the rule, and are noted for their longevity. 

 

Oh, and Chaos aligned characters don't count. The warp tends to do wibbley stuff with time.

[Noctus Cornix]

The short answer is warfare. In general, no marine lives more than a few centuries because they eventually die in war.

 

I have a rendezvous with Death... and I to my pledged word am true, I shall not fail that rendezvous.. 

[Jackalwolf]

Just Google average life expectancy in world war I or world war ii.

[Morovir]

Cymar Xydias, one of the Chapter Masters of the White Consuls, had been Chapter Master for more that 1200 years by the time of Dark Creed.

[Tyberos the Red Wake]

The only non Primarch characters I can think of 1000 years or older are Abaddon, Dante and Bjorn the Fell-Handed.

 

Be wary of old men in professions where one usually dies young.

[Laughingman]

I believe in Red Tithe the Carcharodons chief librarian is described as being 3 generations removed from the "wandering ancestor" (Terran born Marines exiled by Corax) The Carcarodons apparently use cyrosleep extensively between deployments so individual members can be extremely old by space marine standards. 

 

Sigismund fought abaddon during the First black crusade so he must have been pushing 800+ years old. Alternatively Captain Oberdeii (a Ultramarine legion  scout in Pharos) lived to become the first chapter master of the Scythes of the Emperor which puts him at 1000+ years old. 

[Sagentus]

You forgot Khârn the betrayer

[ronin_cse]

Is there any example anywhere in the background of an Astartes dying of any kind of natural causes?

[Olis]

Is there any example anywhere in the background of an Astartes dying of any kind of natural causes?

 

I don't believe there is, however, given the material, I'm not surprised it hasn't been shown or discussed explicitly. But, they age. Visibly. Therefore it is possible for them to die of it.

[BassWave]

Is there any example anywhere in the background of an Astartes dying of any kind of natural causes?

Not off the top of my head. Can't imagine it would be considered an honorable way to die by Astartes standards. Would make for a cool story where an old marine asks to get deployed one last time on a suicide mission to ensure he dies in battle.

[Olis]

 

Is there any example anywhere in the background of an Astartes dying of any kind of natural causes?

Not off the top of my head. Can't imagine it would be considered an honorable way to die by Astartes standards. Would make for a cool story where an old marine asks to get deployed one last time on a suicide mission to ensure he dies in battle.

 

Death before dishonour. :wink:

[shandwen]

Probably the reason they don't die of old age is the expected drop in ability on the way to old age- a marine who can no longer react as quickly would be far more likely to die in a battle.

[Black Cohort]

 

Is there any example anywhere in the background of an Astartes dying of any kind of natural causes?

Not off the top of my head. Can't imagine it would be considered an honorable way to die by Astartes standards. Would make for a cool story where an old marine asks to get deployed one last time on a suicide mission to ensure he dies in battle.

That is exactly how I think it would work. It would probably make a cool narrative game where one of the marine HQs is seeking a worthy death on the battlefield instead of old and sick in bed. If the chapter isn't actively involved in combat I could see an old marine simply wondering into the wilds of the planet so he doesn't die at the chapter fortress.

[Knight of the Raven]

Is there any example anywhere in the background of an Astartes dying of any kind of natural causes?

The closest thing to a natural death I know of happens in the first novel of the Tome of Fire trilogy, Salamander.

 

 

A Salamander warship from the 154th Expeditionary Fleet is left derelict during the Horus Heresy and eventually crashes into the planet Scoria within the Veiled Region. By the time the modern Salamanders find its remains once the warp storms usually disrupting this area of space have abated, it's deep beneath the surface of the planet. The leader of the crew's descendants eventually leads one of the two main characters, Dak'ir, to a secret chamber where he finds Gravius, a legionary who has been sitting on the command throne for so long that his entire body atrophied to the point he can't even be removed from his armor (that has become fused to the throne through the millenias) without killing him. Since the planet is on its last leg and will soon unravel into oblivion, the Salamanders of the 3rd Company are forced to mercy kill him and recover his Heresy-era progenoid glands.

 

It's unclear if the warp storms raging though the Veiled Region affected Scoria itself, so we don't know if it had an effect on Gravius's old age, and I don't remember if it's mentioned whether he used his sus-an membrane to survive so long and just happened to wake up when Dak'ir spoke up as he mistook him for his primarch.

 

[Leonaides]

The fact that they age is evident. The fact that as part of that ageing they slow and physically degrade is inferrable from comments about older marines such as grimnar. The fact that some marines survive injuries that still render them non combat capable is also established. The fact that no marine fluff anywhere mentions thousands of ancient marines cluttering up chapter fortresses/running training facilities/talking about the old times etc would strongly suggest that they do die of old age at some point if they are unable to suicide or do some sort of 'long walk' scenario.

[Laughingman]

I imagine some of the oldest Space marines might be senior tech-marines and apothecaries given they are mostly assigned to non-combat oriented role. Older more venerable warriors that are slowing down, might be cycled out of direct combat roles into more "suitable positions": training, honor guard, fleet command, vehicle crew, etc. 

[shandwen]

Also, from the wounded but not dead aspect it appears that any gun emplacement and many vehicles have permanent marines bound to them (the ravenwing series hit on this a bit with the internment of the deathwing guy to a dread).

[Jackalwolf]

The sad truth is that older marines loose mobility until they end up so rigid that become the statues adorning the chapter halls. They look something like this in their final form:

 

http://img.techpowerup.org/140128/UnidentifiedMarine1.jpg

[Knight of the Raven]

The fact that they age is evident. The fact that as part of that ageing they slow and physically degrade is inferrable from comments about older marines such as grimnar. The fact that some marines survive injuries that still render them non combat capable is also established. The fact that no marine fluff anywhere mentions thousands of ancient marines cluttering up chapter fortresses/running training facilities/talking about the old times etc would strongly suggest that they do die of old age at some point if they are unable to suicide or do some sort of 'long walk' scenario.

I imagine some of the oldest Space marines might be senior tech-marines and apothecaries given they are mostly assigned to non-combat oriented role. Older more venerable warriors that are slowing down, might be cycled out of direct combat roles into more "suitable positions": training, honor guard, fleet command, vehicle crew, etc.

The space marines following the Codex Astartes actually used to have a role for "non-combattants of advanced years" in the Index Astartes from 3rd edition.

[Leonaides]

Exactly. But for a first founding chapter there would be hundreds of oap marines around by now. And there arent.

[Knight of the Raven]

My best guess is that, in this world of rule of cool and Marvel fist fights, bureaucrats aren't considered interesting enough to share the spotlight.

[Frater Antodeniel]

In fact, about the question of the number of Non-Operational Astartes present in a chapter, there is a simple explanation :

 

=> GW writters /fluff teams, just started "recently" to look at the subject with more depths. (As far as it seems from my point of view)

 

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About exemples :

 

=> In the Flesh Tearers Space Marines Battles book, From the Blood short story, Chaplain Zuphias :

 

"A monstrous, red-skinned daemon clad in fire and bronze had mortally wounded Zuphias in the Lypherion campaign. Khorne’s mightiest child, its axe a burning totem of murder, the daemon had shattered Zuphias’s bones and bisected him with a single stroke of its blade. Only his tenacity and burning anger had kept his twin hearts pumping until the Apothecaries found him. They had interred him in the Cowl’s command throne, keeping his body alive through a regimen of electroshocks and bio-fluids. Zuphias was to be transferred to a Dreadnought sarcophagus on his return to Cretacia, given an armoured body in which to continue his battle against the enemies of his Chapter. But operational requirements had necessitated he remain on the Cowl. Now, after more than six decades, he could no longer be removed from the vessel."

 

=> In the Dante Novel, Brother Cafael, Master of Artistry :

 

"At the far end of the room, a figure jerked into life. The young Space Marines attention went to the movement instantly, like a flock of raptors catching sight of prey. A battered looking servitor limped up the room. The left arm, shoulder, and left half of its face had been replaced by machinery, as had most of his legs."

 

"I have served the chapter for six hundred years" Said Cafael

 

"Ninety years ago, I was crippled. I am no more fit for combat duty."