totgeboren Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 I can find nothing that does not give CSM units with both the <CHAOS>, <DAEMON> and <MARK> rule the corresponding <MARK> <DAEMON> rule, since it is actually a <CHAOS> <DAEMON> unit, which is the first criteria to qualify. Or, to put it simply, the rules for Chaos Daemons on page 68 does not in any way block units that also have other keywords from gaining the special rules that units that are "Chaos" "Daemon" and <GOD> "Daemon". This seems to be the case since the rules for summoning seems to be intended to include CSM characters as being eligible for summoning daemons... This would make Possessed a bit more useful at least. OR has anyone else found something that block CSM DAEMON units from claiming the corresponding daemon rules? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334443-csm-daemon-units/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Aiwass Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 Are you implying that khorne possessed actually get the new furious charge rule (whcih i forget the name of)? Or that the slaaneshi ones always strike first? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334443-csm-daemon-units/#findComment-4775658 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChazSexington Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 So you could summon Warp Talons, Muties and Oblits, Heldrakes, Maulerfiends, Defilers, Possessed, Magnus (If you could get a 21 on three dice), Daemon Princes, Foetid Bloat-Drones, and Chaos Lords/Sorcerers on Juggernauts, Discs, Palanquins, and Steeds.And then just Warp Time it into CC for lulz. Are you implying that khorne possessed actually get the new furious charge rule (whcih i forget the name of)? Or that the slaaneshi ones always strike first? I re-read it, and I think so. They have <Mark of Chaos> and <Daemon>. Edit: No, there are differences between Faction Keywords and Keywords, I think, which would would stop it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334443-csm-daemon-units/#findComment-4775672 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven1 Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 So I don't know if this helps but if a unit has the <mark of chaos> keyword it must nominate the appropriate allegiance so it must choose one of Tzeentch, Khrone, Khorne, Nurgle. It gains the keyword "Khorne" and not "Mark of Khorne" according to page 10 in Index Chaos. That is not to say that Slaanesh possessed gain quicksilver swiftness. Eventhough they share a number of keywords, quicksilver swiftness is an ability specifically listed on the Daemonette profile that is missing from possessed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334443-csm-daemon-units/#findComment-4775912 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Aiwass Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 Even if it is missing in the Possessed profile, it is in the CD God's allegiance. E.g. Chaos daemon with <Slaanesh> gain Quicksilver, which applies to Furies. However, they are in different army list, and even if would be awesome to have khornate warptalons with +1A and +1S the turn they charge, I doubt we can do that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334443-csm-daemon-units/#findComment-4776010 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 Definitely a case for the FAQ. Slaanesh Possessed with Quicksilver would be very awesome tho. :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334443-csm-daemon-units/#findComment-4776032 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven1 Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 Well maybe we will see the same paragraph in the csm codex...hahah wishful thinking. I dont think its intended but a good argument could be made. Then again it would reach far further than possessed...warp talons, demon princes, heldrake, forgefiend, Defiler etc Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334443-csm-daemon-units/#findComment-4776039 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamIsCollapsing Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 Answer is no. Page 68 of the index "Quicksilver Swiftness : Slaanesh daemon unit with this ability ...". So only Slaanesh Daemon with this ability. Emperor's Children Warp Talon are Slaanesh daemon, but they don't have this ability. Fiends of Slaanesh are Slaanesh daemon (the worlds Slaanesh & Daemon are also on faction keyword) but with this ability on the datasheet. Daemonic space marine (warp talon, oblit etc...) don't get their god special rules. What they do get is bonus from Daemon HQ (+1 Strenght with a Herald for eg) and possible buff from daemon spell. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334443-csm-daemon-units/#findComment-4776048 Share on other sites More sharing options...
totgeboren Posted June 8, 2017 Author Share Posted June 8, 2017 Ah, now that I sobered up, I see that you have to be both a Chaos Daemon, have the correct god keyword (Khorne Daemon and so on), and also have the ability listed in their entry (Quicksilver Swiftness and so on). Since the CSM Daemons lack the named special rules in their entry, they don't get it even though they have all the keywords. But that the special rules are in a different list doesn't matter, otherwise CSM Characters could not summon daemons (which they seem to be intended to be be able to do). So, that's that I guess. Still, Slaanesh Possessed could get say Hysterical Frenzy cast on them, which could be pretty brutal. Some synergies could be set up between the lists. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334443-csm-daemon-units/#findComment-4776063 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChazSexington Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 Answer is no. Page 68 of the index "Quicksilver Swiftness : Slaanesh daemon unit with this ability ...". So only Slaanesh Daemon with this ability. Emperor's Children Warp Talon are Slaanesh daemon, but they don't have this ability. Fiends of Slaanesh are Slaanesh daemon (the worlds Slaanesh & Daemon are also on faction keyword) but with this ability on the datasheet. Daemonic space marine (warp talon, oblit etc...) don't get their god special rules. What they do get is bonus from Daemon HQ (+1 Strenght with a Herald for eg) and possible buff from daemon spell. Ah, now that I sobered up, I see that you have to be both a Chaos Daemon, have the correct god keyword (Khorne Daemon and so on), and also have the ability listed in their entry (Quicksilver Swiftness and so on). Since the CSM Daemons lack the named special rules in their entry, they don't get it even though they have all the keywords. But that the special rules are in a different list doesn't matter, otherwise CSM Characters could not summon daemons (which they seem to be intended to be be able to do). So, that's that I guess. Still, Slaanesh Possessed could get say Hysterical Frenzy cast on them, which could be pretty brutal. Some synergies could be set up between the lists. I'm not sure - Possessed have Daemon as a Keyword, whereas the Chaos Daemons have Daemon as a Faction Keyword. I have zero experience from AoS, so I don't know if there's a difference. Because, if there's no difference, you can summon a Defiler and Warp Time it. Hilarity aside, I don't think those are the RAI. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334443-csm-daemon-units/#findComment-4776069 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Aiwass Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 An HoS would be indeed very nice to add to a possessed unit. Same movement, nice buffs, and if it can cast the frenzy spell, well, that'd be great. Now you just give an idea on how to convert one for, you know, just in case :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334443-csm-daemon-units/#findComment-4776077 Share on other sites More sharing options...
totgeboren Posted June 8, 2017 Author Share Posted June 8, 2017 Hmmm... it says that: "All datasheets have a list of keywords, sometimes separated into Faction keywords and other keywords. the former can be used as a guide to help decide which models to include in your army, but otherwise both sets of keywords are functionally the same." So, as I read that, you would not be able to include a Forgefiend of Khorne in a Detachment using the <Daemon> keyword, since the Fiend lack that keyword under faction keyword (though it has it under general keywords, so for all other intents is a Daemon of Khorne). You could however use the <Khorne> keyword to combine Khornate daemons and a Khorne Forgefiend into a Khorne detachment. Or just use the <Chaos> Faction Keyword and mix your CSM and Daemons however much you want. :) Also, you can only attempt to summon <Daemon> units that have the Daemonic Ritual ability, so no summoned Defilers. :( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334443-csm-daemon-units/#findComment-4776093 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChazSexington Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 An HoS would be indeed very nice to add to a possessed unit. Same movement, nice buffs, and if it can cast the frenzy spell, well, that'd be great. Now you just give an idea on how to convert one for, you know, just in case ...or Warp Talons. Hmmm... it says that: "All datasheets have a list of keywords, sometimes separated into Faction keywords and other keywords. the former can be used as a guide to help decide which models to include in your army, but otherwise both sets of keywords are functionally the same." So, as I read that, you would not be able to include a Forgefiend of Khorne in a Detachment using the <Daemon> keyword, since the Fiend lack that keyword under faction keyword (though it has it under general keywords, so for all other intents is a Daemon of Khorne). You could however use the <Khorne> keyword to combine Khornate daemons and a Khorne Forgefiend into a Khorne detachment. Or just use the <Chaos> Faction Keyword and mix your CSM and Daemons however much you want. Also, you can only attempt to summon <Daemon> units that have the Daemonic Ritual ability, so no summoned Defilers. Well, paint me blue, invert my omega, and call me an Ultramarine - I'm wrong! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334443-csm-daemon-units/#findComment-4776139 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sagentus Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 Well, paint me blue, invert my omega, and call me an Ultramarine - I'm wrong! hahaha that had me in stitches Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334443-csm-daemon-units/#findComment-4776211 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven1 Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 As described by Frankie on a Battle report from FLG the units must share at least one faction keyword. So a forgefiend could be used in a demon list because they share the "chaos" and possibly khorne or Slaanesh or whatever depending on how you choose <mark of chaos> faction keyword Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334443-csm-daemon-units/#findComment-4777058 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hereticus Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 Units with <Mark of Chaos> do not need to pick a mark. If they don't it is assumed they have not dedicated themselves to any particular god. (bottom of left hand column, page 10) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334443-csm-daemon-units/#findComment-4777191 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plaguecaster Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 As described by Frankie on a Battle report from FLG the units must share at least one faction keyword. So a forgefiend could be used in a demon list because they share the "chaos" and possibly khorne or Slaanesh or whatever depending on how you choose <mark of chaos> faction keywordSo would that mean it's entirely possible to use Nurgle as the keyword for the army with plague bearers, plague marines soul grinders and stuff all mix together in the same army / detachment??? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334443-csm-daemon-units/#findComment-4777252 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Aiwass Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 Yep :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334443-csm-daemon-units/#findComment-4777261 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven1 Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 Yup which is why daemonkin went away bit also stayed at the same time. Special rules for something JFK are gone but units from both lists can be in the same detachment and their special rules can interact with each other. The most powerful thing I can think of is like a demon prince (Heretic Astartes version so he can't be independently targeted) and a Herald for something like possessed, warptalons, maulerfiends etc Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334443-csm-daemon-units/#findComment-4777291 Share on other sites More sharing options...
totgeboren Posted June 9, 2017 Author Share Posted June 9, 2017 I really like how they did the faction keywords. When the FW book hits, it will be entirely possible to make a LatD army, simply using the Chaos keyword and having some traitor guard lead by CSM Characters, supported by some Daemons. Or make your Daemonkin warband, by having all units share the same God keyword. Or make a Legion theme by having all units share the same Legion keyword. This is nice, since I wanted to include zombies but assumed I would need to make a full Death Guard detachment for that. Now that it's been pointed out, Poxwalkers have the Chaos keyword, so they are open for any Chaos army really (though they can only receive Death Guard buffs). :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334443-csm-daemon-units/#findComment-4777307 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Lord Tom Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 I'm pretty sure that possessed and other CSM units with the daemon keyword can then be buffed by daemon HQ if they share the same allegiance (ie Khorne possessed would benefit from the +1S from a Khorne herald). Unfortunately, CSM HQ do not buff daemon units. Say goodbye to your former KDK juggerlord.... could it be an oversight ? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334443-csm-daemon-units/#findComment-4783394 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven1 Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 could it be an oversight ? No, the Heretic Astartes demon prince buffs both HA and demons. Things might change with faction books especially if they are themed like Khorne Bloodbound or disciples of Tzeentch Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334443-csm-daemon-units/#findComment-4783410 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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