Primarch Updates

[HeritorA]

Midgard

Sure. Totally the same point I have about the Lion. Strangely - in Lion case (don't know why - I have a feeling) BL will do the First Primarch MUCH better than Buirlliman.

 

On Corax on the other hand  I disagree.

 

Primarchs are modeled upon adult kids in general - and adult kids in depression can't get from it themselves, they only sunk deeper in it. Better for him to stay dead

[Midgard]

HeritorA: I don't have an issue with Corax being dead, but perhaps the means of said death can be used for more impact. I just had a thought on the topic... the Imperial annals note an event known as the "War of the False Primarch". What if... the primarch was not false, but the Imperium went out of its way to silence/destroy someone who took issue with it? Corax, the freedom fighter with a death wish, would be a good candidate for said primarch. Not to mention... grimdark.

[bluntblade]

The only reason Angron needs to return is violence, so he's on his way for sure.

[b1soul]

I hope the Khan's novella is handled by Wraight.

 

Perhaps explore the chip on the shoulder the Vth have whenever the VIth are mentioned

[R_F_D]

Wraight is writing the Khan Primarch book, he told me at Warhammer Fest.

[Sandlemad]

Wraight is writing the Khan Primarch book, he told me at Warhammer Fest.

 

Oh nice. This is an interesting one, looks like BL is taking a varied approach. Guy Haley said that they partially wanted to shake things up and not have the usual authors write about their regular primarchs but then nearly everything detailed about the Khan comes from Wraight's work in the last 4 years so this is no bad thing.

 

Hopefully it's not just a primarch childhood novel. Perturabo did it decently, if only for half the book, and Lorgar looks like it'll be entirely on Colchis, but there's so little other background about the Khan that it would be good to look at another event.

[b1soul]

Wraight is writing the Khan Primarch book, he told me at Warhammer Fest.

I am beside myself with joy (zero sarcasm...I mean it)

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

Wraight is writing the Khan Primarch book, he told me at Warhammer Fest.

That's the best damn thing I've read all day. (Granted the day is young, but now the bar is VERY high)

[DarkChaplain]

I'm in two minds about Wraight writing the Khan again.

 

On one hand, it'll be a blast to read. He's a known quantity where the Khan himself originally was not. Scars and The Path of Heaven were excellent novels and I'm still amazed at how well Scars pulled off the serialized format first.

 

On the other hand, I've been looking forward to seeing most Primarchs tackled by authors who haven't gotten the chance to write them yet. I'm certain that Robbie MacNiven would've loved the chance to write Jaghatai, for example, and he has no Horus Heresy novel to his name, similar to David Guymer with Ferrus Manus or Josh Reynolds with Fulgrim. They all had experience writing at least the Chapters, though.

 

I'm hugely looking forward to what Chris is going to do with it, but I'm still disappointed that, yet again, a Primarch is being tackled by somebody who shaped him a great deal. Here's hoping this'll be one of the last times this happens. Otherwise we'll certainly have Kyme tackling Vulkan, Swallow possibly doing Sanguinius, AD-B doing Curze and so on. It can't be just me that finds this a tad too boring at this point?

[Arkangilos]

 

 

 

Konrad couldn't have changed his mind after being dead for 10k years? How many suicidal people would want a do over after they let themselves die? He could come back a completely changed character. How would the NL react to this? Would he want to continue to fight against an Imperium that actually embraced his ideals of how to keep people in line through fear?

 

 

 

 

What guilt does FM or the IH have? He comes back and what changes for them? They still had to deal with his death for 10k years just like the rest of the other legions we're taking about.

 

Sangy coming back doesn't mean the Black Rage or Thirst have to go away. Depending on how he comes back the BR would still be there since he DID die. His return could either cleanse them of at least the Rage (the Thirst would still be there) or perhaps make it worse. Or have a completely different effect entirely.

 

None of those things change the 10k history before it. It does not negate what happened then or how the legions dealt with it. I get that you don't want characters returning like comic books but GW already broke one rule by bringing back RG. The only Primarch we know of that was so thoroughly immolated that he can't come back is Horus...except we know there's clones of him. Whose to Bile hasn't been working on cloned Primarchs and out pops Horus 2.0 or Konrad 2.0?

 

It seems GW wants to move the fluff forward. HH has shown how popular the primarchs are. Why not introduce them back into 40k?

 

If he comes back as a completely changed character then I see little point in calling him Konrad Curze, it pretty much obliterates how much bite and poignancy his death had if he doesn't actually die if it happened 'For real' for ten thousand years or not.

 

Ferrus Manus no longer being dead pretty much removes any of the potency behind his deaths impact on the Iron Hands, their struggle with emotions and their Primarchs failure to defeat Fulgrim as well as their dealing with the Horus Heresys after effects is only dampened if not removed by his return.

 

Again if it changes completely why call it the Red Thirst or Black Rage? Though weirder still would be if the Black Rage remained the same and they still had visions of his 'death' when he's back, then it'd be more upset with his psuedo death and it'd be more like a black temper tantrum really.

 

Also Roboute has, imo, for all intents and purposes never been dead, him coming back has always been a possibility on the table. Horus's clones coming back would also make little sense, Fabius created them in an effort to reunite the Third, a last ditch gamble to tilt over the Legion Wars which ultimately failed, why rehash that failure?

 

So as I said before, it seems to just take away from the setting to me.

Just to correct you on something, the Red Thirst was there before Sanguinius died. It's only the Black Rage that would be affected, and that's still not likely depending on how he returns. If he returns as a "spirit" or like the second coming, his death still happened and the psychic backlash still happened. It was the psychic backlash of his death that caused the Black Rage, which means that it was a singular moment from that death that caused it, like a scar. Him coming back to life won't remove that scar, since the scar has nothing to do with the death itself, just the cut from the death.

[b1soul]

I'm in two minds about Wraight writing the Khan again.

Other than Wraight, I'd only want ADB, Rob, French, or maybe Abnett.

 

I'm just glad it's Wraight and not...say...Thorpe or Kyme

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

 

I'm in two minds about Wraight writing the Khan again.

Other than Wraight, I'd only want ADB, Rob, French, or maybe Abnett.

 

I'm just glad it's Wraight and not...say...Thorpe or Kyme

 

 

QFT

[Jagus Kumkani]

Everyone can be fluff lovers all they want. GW is a business and they know how to make money. If Primarchs are popular, you best believe GW and BL will find a way to make it make sense.

[NKCougar]

I'm in two minds about Wraight writing the Khan again.

 

On one hand, it'll be a blast to read. He's a known quantity where the Khan himself originally was not. Scars and The Path of Heaven were excellent novels and I'm still amazed at how well Scars pulled off the serialized format first.

 

On the other hand, I've been looking forward to seeing most Primarchs tackled by authors who haven't gotten the chance to write them yet. I'm certain that Robbie MacNiven would've loved the chance to write Jaghatai, for example, and he has no Horus Heresy novel to his name, similar to David Guymer with Ferrus Manus or Josh Reynolds with Fulgrim. They all had experience writing at least the Chapters, though.

 

I'm hugely looking forward to what Chris is going to do with it, but I'm still disappointed that, yet again, a Primarch is being tackled by somebody who shaped him a great deal. Here's hoping this'll be one of the last times this happens. Otherwise we'll certainly have Kyme tackling Vulkan, Swallow possibly doing Sanguinius, AD-B doing Curze and so on. It can't be just me that finds this a tad too boring at this point?

I'd love to see some writers move around, that's for sure. I want to see ADB take on Sanguinius or an early-Crusade Manus, and Wraight trying either Jonson or perhaps Perturabo - I want to see how he does with a switch from the supposedly 'barbaric' legions (V,VI), to a legion based around logistics and armor battalions, or a monastic knighthood. Hell, throw him on the post princehood EC, those guys in Path of Heaven were great, let him write a whole book about them.

[DarkChaplain]

Well, Wraight already did the Lion in Leman Russ: The Great Wolf, and to satisfaction. Ferrus Manus is being done by David Guymer who recently had Eye of Medusa published and is a huge Iron Hands fan.

[NKCougar]

Well, Wraight already did the Lion in Leman Russ: The Great Wolf, and to satisfaction. Ferrus Manus is being done by David Guymer who recently had Eye of Medusa published and is a huge Iron Hands fan.

I completely forgot about that, I'll have to give it a read at some point.

[b1soul]

I think Wraight could handle any legion well. The man can write, along with French and ADB.

 

I honestly think RG and Sallies have been ruined by bad authours.

Edited June 26, 2017 by b1soul

[Loesh]

I actually know quite a few people who like the Salamanders books, or at least tolerate them.

Raven Guard are tougher, it's hard for me to muster any solid defense for Deliverance Lost, and I feel like coupled with other less flattering(Or too flattering.) portrayals it's resulted in a legion that's hard to do any justice to in the Horus Heresy and Great Crusade.

[b1soul]

I can't stand Thorpe...there's something about his writing, really flat and bland.

[Loesh]

Gav Thorpes extremely knowledgeable about fluff, I enjoy his interviews, but i'm not a fan of his writing style. Nothing wrong with that, I wouldn't call em bad authors(Nick Kymes short stories are fantastic even.) just different strengths and weakness. Even ADB, Dan Abnett, and Graham Mcneil can have glaring flaws in their writing, perceived or real.

That's what BL's expansive roster of authors is for though, fleshing out multiple perspectives. 

[HeritorA]

I hope the Khan's novella is handled by Wraight.

 

Perhaps explore the chip on the shoulder the Vth have whenever the VIth are mentioned

We all prey for it.

 

I can't stand Thorpe...there's something about his writing, really flat and bland.

And you are not alone in that.

[b1soul]

That's what BL's expansive roster of authors is for though, fleshing out multiple perspectives.

 

Yes...but I don't like a single work by Gav.

 

What's his best work in your view? Deliverance Lost, Catechism of Hate, Weregeld, Angels of Caliban were all extremely mediocre to me.

[Sandlemad]

 

That's what BL's expansive roster of authors is for though, fleshing out multiple perspectives.

Yes...but I don't like a single work by Gav.

 

What's his best work in your view? Deliverance Lost, Catechism of Hate, Weregeld, Angels of Caliban were all extremely mediocre to me.

 

 

I wasn't mad about any of his heresy or imperial books but his eldar stuff is more than decent and his work on the 6th ed. WHFB dwarfs army book remains the most characterful coverage of the stunties anywhere.

[Loesh]

 

That's what BL's expansive roster of authors is for though, fleshing out multiple perspectives.

Yes...but I don't like a single work by Gav.

 

What's his best work in your view? Deliverance Lost, Catechism of Hate, Weregeld, Angels of Caliban were all extremely mediocre to me.

 

As incredibly backhanded as this is after I was just defending him, Weregeld because I can't remember any of it.

 

Not a big fan of his writing style like I said, and I outright hate a lot of his stuff, ESPECIALLY Deliverance Lost, but I can admire the detail he tries to put in. His Dark Angels are okay when they are on their own, but when they start mixing with other Legions it's.....ehhhhh......

Edited June 29, 2017 by Loesh

[Guest Triszin]

My own thoughts.

 

Khan:

 

If Khan has been captured in the webway by the dark eldar and tortured for 10k years, I could see him cracking and either becoming a Dark eldar primarch surrogate, or flipping to chaos to stop the torture and turning.

I think he is the most likely primarch to turn.

 

Russ:

Russ's disappearance seems to be loosely based on Odin/Thor lore, in addition to having some similarities to the Marvel Asgardian lore.

It's also of note that the Odin/Thor characters seem to alternate between Russ and the Emperor.

 

Going into the eye of terror and the warp to locate the fruit from the tree of life to bring back the emperor.

 

In this instance lets look at it this way, Odin hung from the tree of life for 9 days and nights and was pierced by a spear.

 

If we look at the tree of life in 40k as the Astronomicon and the Golden throne it kind of makes sense, the spear that pierces him could either be Horus's Talon, but more likely he hasn't been pierced by the spear. Yet. I believe that spear to be the Lion's sword is is required for the rebirth of the emperor and his ascension. In addition the 9 days and nights could be yet another reference to 9000~ years.

 

"He also pawned one of his eyes for a drink of the Spring of Mimir. Through this offering, Odin received supreme wisdom."

In this part I believe this to actually be Russ, in the Warp. He'll find the Tree of life/Fountain of youth, my guess is he finds the Warp Deity for Life in the 40k universe, and theres a cost to bring back some of the Warp infused waters to "revive/ascend" the emperor. for that russ pays an Eye.

 

Also symbolic because he is now a cyclops, the same as magnus (in that regard), this will also be a next step in change of perspective for russ.

 

"

Odin is said to have reached the world beyond the realms of death through his spiritual hanging. By this means he gained knowledge of the runes and learned to master their magic. This power allows him to bring the dead back. Odin preserved the head of Mimir (slain by the Vanir) with herbs to continue consulting him. Odin also has a reputaion for using deceitful magic. In art he is frequently portrayed with a missing eye as he undergoes the torment of hanging. Believers in Odin offered human sacrifices to this god.

Odin is married to Frigg. Odin will die a physical death in the jaws of the Fenrir wolf during the last great battle of Ragnarok."

 

this last passage of Odin's ascension is also important.

It talks of his reaching the warp, and coming to terms with being a god, and with it its powers and knowledge.

The head of Mimir is actually the head of a primarch, Ferrus. At his ascension, when the battle is on and in the imperial palace, a unknown vetcor will finally reveal his loyalties, Omegon. He is and has been loyal to the emperor, and one thing he's actively been working towards is getting the real skull of ferrus, he will return it to his father and the emperor will use the skull to bring back Ferrus, either as a warp deity or in physicality.

 

But before this occurs Odin's physical body must die, at the jaws of fenrir. Russ. Russ with the "knowledge or warp infused water" will understand that inorder to save the emperor and the imperium his physical body must die. Russ is and will always be loyal. Russ will end the emperors body on the golden throne, and RG and others will turn on him, Omegon, Cypher coming to russ's aid. The last battle ragnarok is the wolftime, and the battle for the fate of the emperor, if russ kills him he ascends, if chaos kills him they feast on his corpse in the warp.

 

but the story of russ before these events follow the path of Thor later in life, in lore and marvel lore. Rune Lord Thor is a thing, and that is what I suspect Russ to become. Magnus has hinted that Russ is the same as he, a powerful psyker. Now with russ being a cyclops he will also have mastered the Runes, and also pluck the threads of fate. Russ will be a mixture of Odin and Thor when he is revealed. Wise, a powerful pysker/seer, and monstrous in appearance he will be wulfen touched.

 

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But this isn't the end of the 40k its really the beginning, for when the emperor ascends it stops galactic travel, the entire warp across the galaxy become turbulent and storm like, in this time, the chaos gods will get real footholds within the galaxy and the story goes on.