Is Logan Grimnar on sled worth it in 8th?

[TempestBlade]

I was looking at all the SW leaks and I saw Logan on sled and thought "Man he is awesome! I should pick him up!". So I am asking for some help. Is he worth the points? He's 230 on the sled. That's a fair amount of points and being 12Ws he can get shot at right away. That being said he's fast (10" move) and has 11 attacks in cc. Im on the fence and I don't want to pick up a model Im not going to use.

[Toasterfree]

keeps him in range of TWC and allows them to ignore morale. id say its worth it.

[TheWolfLord]

I'm not as convinced.

 

In 7th I loved Stormrider rules but in 8th it takes him above the 10 wound mark for characters meaning he can be targeted as normal.

 

T6 with 12 wounds and a 3+ save doesn't seem very survivable.

 

I need to test him out to see if he's more survivable in practice, as Walter says he brings some great benefits to TWC and fast Wolf Guard units running with him so he could be well worth the disadvantage over the slower version.

[postxhumanity]

I was planning to start a thread similar to this, as I think it's an interesting question whether Logan will be better with Stormrider or on foot. Stormrider has some very obvious benefits, but with all of the changes to 8th edition, it will also come with some drawbacks--the biggest of which is easily the fact that he can be targeted by anyone. It costs an additional 40 points to take Stormrider. Here are the pros and cons as I see them:

Pros of Stormrider:

-Mobility: Logan's default movement of 5" is doubled to 10" (7" with 4-6 wounds, 4" with 1-3 wounds)

-Durability: increased Toughness from 4 to 6; increased Wounds from 7 to 12

-Assault: Ability to reroll charges; 6 additional melee attacks at S 5, AP -1 (5 attacks with 4-6 wounds, 4 with 1-3 wounds)

 

Cons:

-Big target: With more than 10 wounds, Logan can be targeted by anyone whose weapon is in range

-Armor save: Logan's 2+ armor save on foot is reduced to 3+ on Stormrider

-Deployment: Logan loses the ability to deepstrike if he's on Stormrider

 

So, do the pros outweigh the cons? At this point I don't think we can answer definitively. This is an empirical question and most of us just haven't been able to run Logan in the yet-to-be-released 8th edition. I think Stormrider is very likely going to be worth taking against armies that focus on Assault, but suspect that it may prove something a liability against shootier armies if there isn't a lot of LOS blocking cover. Going from 7 to 12 wounds on a model with a 4++ is in some respects a remarkable upgrade, but if it suddenly means you're be targeted by lascannons and meltas, it might not be worth it. 

 

This is a longish post for just saying 'I don't know what the answer is.' But I thought it'd be good to lay out the pros and cons of Stormrider. Once we're finally able to use it it 8th edition, I'd love to hear how Logan is working out for people with and without his chariot.

[TheDuck]

I'd say that whether he's worth taking on Stormrider largely depends on what sort of long range firepower your enemy's got. If you're up against Tau, for example, then no, he'll get melted in their shooting phase. But if it's an assault army, like Khorne daemons, then hell yeah, take him on Stormrider, he's absolutely beastly in assault.

[Lord Blackwood]

I  feel like id rather him walk around on foot honestly. 

[Akela]

Logan on Stormrider is a bit less risky if you have an Iron Priest on Thunderwolf Mount behind him to repair wounds since technically the Stormrider is a Vehicle.

[TempestBlade]

Oooo good call Akela! I forgot about iron priests on Thunderwolves.

[Kasper_Hawser]

Or Iron Priests on bikes. Since TWC no longer increases the strength of thunderhammers, but gives a few extra attacks at S5 AP-1, if one is on budget, may as well use bike Iron Priest which is slightly cheaper I think. Faster than TWC and can choose to jink for 5++ invlun.

[Akela]

True, though I sawed one of the old metal Iron Priest models in half and then pinned it onto a third party Thunderwolf...I am pretty well committed to Iron Priest on TWM ; )

[Kasper_Hawser]

True, though I sawed one of the old metal Iron Priest models in half and then pinned it onto a third party Thunderwolf...I am pretty well committed to Iron Priest on TWM ; )

 

Not too late to take a servo arm from somewhere, attach it to a marine body on a bike and call it an Iron Priest on bike. :) for me, I actually purposely bought the Techmarine with 4 servitors for that purpose, to convert to all kinds of Iron Priest.

[TempestBlade]

@Kasper - while the iron priest on a bike is cheaper by 15 points, bike no longer get the jink ability. Only DA ones do unless I am missing something. So on thunderwolf you get another 3 attacks at str 5 ap -1 added to your 3x str 8 ap -3 dmg 3 attacks. Shame too I converted a cool looking iron priest on bike

[Gherrick]

Bike > TWC when that 4" extra movement matters. IP on bike that can make a charge with a tempest hammer means far more than 3 S5/-1 extra attacks.

[postxhumanity]

In the context of repairing Logan's sled, the increased mobility afforded by a bike as opposed to a Thunderwolf doesn't matter. The profiles for the Iron Priest on a bike and on a Thunderwolf both state that a repair can only be performed if the IP hasn't moved more than 6".

[Kasper_Hawser]

@Kasper - while the iron priest on a bike is cheaper by 15 points, bike no longer get the jink ability. Only DA ones do unless I am missing something. So on thunderwolf you get another 3 attacks at str 5 ap -1 added to your 3x str 8 ap -3 dmg 3 attacks. Shame too I converted a cool looking iron priest on bike

 

Nuts, so bikes lost the overall jinking ability? So the only benefits is the extra toughness and speed.

 

My mind still stuck in 7th,

[TempestBlade]

Yea I'm going to have trouble switching my mind over to 8th for the first few games. Looking at it thunderwolf gives +1 wound, +3 attacks at str 5 ap -1, and a 10" move over the bike for +15 points. I think I will go thunderwolf every time.

[Gherrick]

What you aren't factoring in when comparing WG on bike vs TWC is the shooting difference. WG get access to combis, as well as cheaper SS, plus the bike's twin bolters. IMO, that is worth much more than the extra wound and extra melee attacks.

[Wispy]

We're talking Iron Priests though. Wolf Guard cant heal Logan in a sled. Edited June 16, 2017 by Wispy

[Kasper_Hawser]

I'm gonna try both anyway.

[TempestBlade]

First game I get to play I'm bring Logan on sled with a iron priest on thunderwolf. The extra attacks sounds awesome

[Fang_Guard23]

Logan on Stormrider is a bit less risky if you have an Iron Priest on Thunderwolf Mount behind him to repair wounds since technically the Stormrider is a Vehicle.

not exactly, the iron priest's battlesmith rule says that if he hasn't move more then 6", then he can repair a vehicle. so the iron priest won't exactly be able to fully keep up with grimnar if he's too far away.

[NightHowler]

Just take several Iron Priests in drop pods and drop them wherever Logan will move to next. Like a kind of "Iron Priest Pit Stop" Logan pulls up, gets some quick repairs and an oil change, and zips off to the next battle. Since we now decide exactly when and where deep strike reserves arrive, you're guaranteed to have an "Iron Priest Pit Stop" when and where you need it most.

[Gherrick]

If only we could get IPs in TDA like techmarines, as that would work better for pit stop repairs.

[Nrthstar]

Anyone done it yet?  The sled that is?

[CJAMOMAN]

I have played the sled once. It sucked. With being able to be targeted, and not really having the resilience that other high wound models have, he dies in 1 round of shooting. I think he needs more wounds or more T to make it worth it. Edited July 31, 2017 by CJAMOMAN