Night Lords: warband or Primaris?

[Kelborn]

Hey there,

 

I'm intending to create a Night Lord warband. Nothing special or outstanding. More of a "standard" approach. But with the recently released 8th edition and all the Primaris stuff, I also have an idea for a NL Primaris chapter or maybe even a traitor Primaris warband.

 

But I'm not quite sure with what I should go with. Thus, I'll give you a short recap of what I've got so far and hope for some feedback of yours. :)

 

 

Warband:

- lead by a terran Night Lord, who despises the Nostraman members of his Legion for the corruption and the downfall of the entire Legion, close friend of Malcharion, the War Sage

- the warband itself consists mostly of terranborn Night Lords, only a handful of Nostraman Astartes and other, "younger" members, who were recruited from other worlds

- act as mercanaries for a space station, which is ruled by a chosen of Slaanesh (former Rogue Trader or SM champion, who got corrupted and is now a possessed by a demon of Slaanesh, being really greedy and so on)

- besides being mercanaries, they are assaulting the Imperium like other NL warbands do, choosing weaker targets, raiding, butchering, etc.

- if you look closer, you'll see that their leader wants to achieve something of a higher purpose: the rebirth of the Legion

- that's why this warband has close ties to the warband of the Exalted

- after a search for it, they find a new homeworld to recruit from: Malykriss, a world covert in ice and eternal darkness (ever seen 30 Days of Night?); the world was kept secret by Malcharion as a last refuge if Tsagualsa should fall

- from Malykriss, they start to build up their forces, while still pretending to be mercenaries, etc.

- shortly after, the are summoned to the secret meeting of the entire Legion in which Decimus reveals himself

 

 

Now, with the shared information from Caldersson and others, I came up with the following:

 

Primaris chapter:

 

- Cawl wants to work with traitor geneseed, but RG forbade it

- Who can garantue that Cawl would listen to RG? So there is a slight chance of having Primaris marines descending from traitor Legions at the end of the Indomitus Crusade

- as Cawl's "secret" chapter, they are allied with a radical outpost of the AdMech, which is under the bell of Cawl, searching for xenos tech and even DarkMech knowledge

- in doing so, they engage demons, traitors and the likes, even their NL brothers, who recognize their battle doctrine and features (black eyes, pale skin, etc.)

- over time, the Primaris chapter gets more and more radical, leading to the censure of RG (mirroring the NL censure and downfall)

- because of this, the Primaris repeat the story of their parent Legion in turning renegade, still, the radical outpost held up its bonds to the traitor Primaris in order to get more forbidden stuff for Cawl

- they resettle on Malykriss, forming it into their new homeworld

 

I'm a bit in a hurry, so this might feel rather rushed.

 

One thing to mention, I got the permission to use canon characters for their history by a certain author. It would be easier to implement them in the warband version. But the Primaris one is really tempting.

 

But for the time being, what do you think? Should I try and go with the Primaris chapter or should I leave that one until we got more details about the Primaris themselves and their possible corruption and work on a more "standard" chaos warband?

 

Thanks in advance!

 

Kel

[Lysimachus]

I think what information we've gained from the novel suggests that traitor geneseed Primaris are entirely possible. The fact that Cawl has asked RG and been told no doesn't mean he hasn't already done it on the side, although I'd guess that any such Chapters/groups would be very much a minority among the Indomitus Crusade.

 

I also don't think we've had anything said that the Primaris are any more or less likely to fall to the lures of pride, selfishness, etc than their 'regular' Astartes brethren, so Primaris renegades (or even Chaos followers) seem equally possible.

 

That said, if it was me I might hold off a little if I was going to go the second route, just so I didn't have to (potentially) rewrite half of it when we do get more info. I'd assume that the Astartes Codex (or whatever it's called) will be one of the earliest released for 8th and that will probably bring with it a lot of additional fluff about the Primaris.

Edited June 10, 2017 by LySiMachus

[Olis]

should I leave that one until we got more details about the Primaris themselves and their possible corruption and work on a more "standard" chaos warband?

 

My advice is pretty much this. While the Liber Mods are looking into making a 'Primaris Primer' to help people with the salient details of the Ultima Founding, some of us simply don't know enough yet to give real advice on a subject that possibly diverges from canon. 

 

The background to the warband idea sounds very much akin to A D-B's work on his own warband (make of that what you will). That said, I think much of the details feel like this is ancient history, rather than an overarching story. 

Edited June 10, 2017 by Olis

[Doctor Perils]

As of yet we have little info on the ultima founding. Indeed, it seems call has been playing around with traitor geneseed - however, as guilliman said "no", I'm going to keep the same advice as always on these matters: keep their true geneseed secret and only allude to it subtly. They can pretend to be ravenguard successors for the moment (and even believe that themselves), but still follow the path of the night lords.

 

 

For both of your ideas, I'd also keep a good distance from the tallest pillars of this new "meta-plot" and the advanced setting: no "cawl's secret chapter", no "close personal NL friend who doesn't backstab you at the first chance"... you have no control over cawl and malcharion, so it would be all to easy for gw/bl to invalidate your whole diy because of them doing something different.

 

As a night lord, I'd be surprised if your lord wants to give his legion rebirth out of the goodness of his heart: focus instead on his personal ambition, and how he wishes to be this new legion's master.

Also, an extremely important question for any night lord : how does he view his primarch and his death?

 

 

Finally... what's stopping you from doing both ? ;) the chaos night lord might have discovered these primaris and seen them as his chance to gain control over the legion in place of decimus ?

[Hrvat]

 

 

who recognize their battle doctrine and features (black eyes, pale skin, etc.)

 

Would they be distinguisable from RG bloodline? 

[Kelborn]

Great thoughts and ideas. That's why I love this community! :tu:

Thank you for that.

I think what information we've gained from the novel suggests that traitor geneseed Primaris are entirely possible. The fact that Cawl has asked RG and been told no doesn't mean he hasn't already done it on the side, although I'd guess that any such Chapters/groups would be very much a minority among the Indomitus Crusade.

I also don't think we've had anything said that the Primaris are any more or less likely to fall to the lures of pride, selfishness, etc than their 'regular' Astartes brethren, so Primaris renegades (or even Chaos followers) seem equally possible.

That said, if it was me I might hold off a little if I was going to go the second route, just so I didn't have to (potentially) rewrite half of it when we do get more info. I'd assume that the Astartes Codex (or whatever it's called) will be one of the earliest released for 8th and that will probably bring with it a lot of additional fluff about the Primaris.

Yeah, I agree that I (or one) shoudl wait until we got more details about the Ultima Founding and the possibility of creating traitor Primaris.

Caldersson did a good summary / overview of all Primaris details from the recently released Dark Imperium. It's in the SW subforum. It's the reason why I came up with the Primaris idea.

should I leave that one until we got more details about the Primaris themselves and their possible corruption and work on a more "standard" chaos warband?

My advice is pretty much this. While the Liber Mods are looking into making a 'Primaris Primer' to help people with the salient details of the Ultima Founding, some of us simply don't know enough yet to give real advice on a subject that possibly diverges from canon.

The background to the warband idea sounds very much akin to A D-B's work on his own warband (make of that what you will). That said, I think much of the details feel like this is ancient history, rather than an overarching story.

Yep, will wait and for now, create a "normal" Astartes warband.

It's no coincedence. I'm currently rereading the NL trilogy and the story of my warband will partially deal with the survivors of his warband and the events in between Night Stalker and its epilogue. My thought was that Talos might not be the only one, who would love to see the Legion rebuild. Terran Night Lords are different than their Nostraman brothers. Besides the NL trilogy, I'm rereading Forge Worlds take on the Night Lords as well, looking for differences between Terran and Nostraman brothers. The intenion of my leader is as followed:

- he blames Nostramo for the downfall of his Legion

- still he adheres to Curzes teachings as Curze is just a byproduct of Nostramos corruption and not to blame for his past

- that's why he would like to see the Legion unified and rebuild without any of the unworthy Nostraman Astartes

- still, there are honorable exceptions like Sevatar, Malcharion and Talos (honorable is elastic term here)

- if necessary, he will take the mantle of the new master of the Legion

- main point: avenging his Legions downfall and the Imperium's betrayal

- by unfortunate coincedences he became a traitor, if things would have been different, he might have stayed loyal to the Emperor

As I said, I'm not intending to reinvent the wheel but rather to create a solid article which will be the background story for a possible fanfic. Besides, it will be a good exercise for writing CSM / chaos stuff. I only did this once before and after rereading it....let's say, I'd like to forget about it. ^^

As of yet we have little info on the ultima founding. Indeed, it seems call has been playing around with traitor geneseed - however, as guilliman said "no", I'm going to keep the same advice as always on these matters: keep their true geneseed secret and only allude to it subtly. They can pretend to be ravenguard successors for the moment (and even believe that themselves), but still follow the path of the night lords.


For both of your ideas, I'd also keep a good distance from the tallest pillars of this new "meta-plot" and the advanced setting: no "cawl's secret chapter", no "close personal NL friend who doesn't backstab you at the first chance"... you have no control over cawl and malcharion, so it would be all to easy for gw/bl to invalidate your whole diy because of them doing something different.

As a night lord, I'd be surprised if your lord wants to give his legion rebirth out of the goodness of his heart: focus instead on his personal ambition, and how he wishes to be this new legion's master.
Also, an extremely important question for any night lord : how does he view his primarch and his death?


Finally... what's stopping you from doing both ? the chaos night lord might have discovered these primaris and seen them as his chance to gain control over the legion in place of decimus ?

Great thoughts, mate! :)

I answered a couple of your suggestions above.

But yeah, I could implement a Primaris force in the future, when we got more details.

Regarding Malcharion and having control over him. I honestly don't believe that he will be featured again in coming stuff. And even if it's the case, so be it. I have to live with that and adapt my stuff. ;)

Let me just say that I was told to "Go nuts."

I may be wrong but it sounds (for me) that I can do whatever I want with them. If I misunderstood it...well...ok. ^^

[Conn Eremon]

Regarding Malcharion and having control over him. I honestly don't believe that he will be featured again in coming stuff. And even if it's the case, so be it. I have to live with that and adapt my stuff.

Let me just say that I was told to "Go nuts."

I may be wrong but it sounds (for me) that I can do whatever I want with them. If I misunderstood it...well...ok. ^^

Nah, the issue isn't regarding who has the right of control, but whether or not it helps your article and makes it interesting. The reason why the Liber tends to take an immediate stance against using canon individuals (even side ones) is because 99% of the time they have a negative impact on the narrative. They either steal the spotlight or take the place of real character and personality.

Technically, any one of us can use any thing or anyone in the 40k setting, but you're here to tell us about your Warband and it's more than likely going to work against you in that effort.

For right now, I would focus on creating universal aspects of your DIY. Aspects that don't matter if they're Night Lord, Space Marine or Primaris. Aspects that build their character and culture, and can later be applied to whichever format you settle upon after learning more.

[Kelborn]

Ah ok, got it. Thanks for the tip!

 

The canon characters will only play a role in the warband related fanfic.

 

Within the article, they will be just a side note, only mentioned in a couple of sentences (for a certain event in the history part) as this is about my NL and not canon ones. :)