Psychic or non-psychic?

[Shaezus]

I'm worried I might be missing something really dumb and easy here, because the BA psychic powers are, in my humble one, soundly out-performed by various cheaper options. I may be wrong, but I believe the math supports this. 

Blood Boil - maybe a matter of personal preference, but this just ain't worth the points.

 

Shield - compare to, say a 3++ on 5 company vets for 25 points...or vanguard vets..though it could be good with devs or a meaty DC, expensive alongside Corbulo and Astorath though, who give game-changing boosts to the DC for the whole game.

 

Rage - actually, maybe I should run one alongside the DC bomb? :D Seriously though unless you're happy to push almost 600 points into a unit, you can get 5 DC for only 7 points more, for an extra 25 attacks on the charge. 

 

Obviously like all things it has a bit of 'situational' about it but considering the warp charge and chances of denial, it just seems there are much cheaper and more focused options available. When I first read the new rules I was hoping that I'd turn the page and find the last three powers on the list, but alas no. The psychic phase will always be a random affair, but imo libbys only make up their PV if their powers are cast successfully in their intended purpose(s), otherwise there are cheaper, more specific and more reliable options around.

Has anybody had any luck using librarians or libby dreads yet?

[Charlo]

I suppose it's all about context, right?

 

Matched pay especially, you get to cast each of these once per turn.

 

So ignoring blood boil, you end up with a 4++ and an extra attack for a/two different units.

 

I can see the uses and I think they work to our seemingly 8th playstyle of "LAY ON THEM AURAS SON."

 

I mean, imagine Mephiston with a 4++. Feels good.

[Karhedron]

4++ on those expensive Sangnuiary Guard sounds pretty good, or even your Storm Raven?

[Calistarius]

4++ on those expensive Sangnuiary Guard sounds pretty good, or even your Storm Raven?

I was thinking the same thing.  The Raven is the most mobile gun platform we have with its 40+ shots within 12" so that 4++ would be pretty nice.

[SM1981]

Does the psychic shield stack with units pre-existing FNP? I can't find anything that says whether it does or doesn't. Just that when a model is hit you can choose to roll against either it's armour or FNP, but not both.

[Jolemai]

Does the psychic shield stack with units pre-existing FNP? I can't find anything that says whether it does or doesn't. Just that when a model is hit you can choose to roll against either it's armour or FNP, but not both.

??

[NTaW]

Whatever FnP is called now, it's another roll after your armour save against wounds caused.

 

I'll be checking out psykers this edition. Way more interested in choosing my powers, that's for sure. Can Shield be cast on vehicles?

[Arkangilos]

I think it's a shame we don't have our signature quickening power that we've had since 3rd.

[Karhedron]

Can Shield be cast on vehicles?

 

Yup, it simply specifies "A friendly Blood Angels unit". There are certain abilities that only target infantry (e.g. Sanguinary Priest) or Vehicles (e.g. Techmarine) but Shield has no restriction.

[NTaW]

Nice! I guess the follow-up question to that is can the power be cast from inside the vehicle?

[Jolemai]

Nice! I guess the follow-up question to that is can the power be cast from inside the vehicle?

No.

[Jolemai]

Whatever FnP is called now, it's another roll after your armour save against wounds caused.

 

 

Actually, the new FnP is performed on damage. So it's:

• Roll To Hit -> Roll To Wound -> make any saving throws -> roll/apply Damage -> make the appropriate number of FnP rolls. This is what I was questioning without having the leaks in front of me:

 

 

Does the psychic shield stack with units pre-existing FNP? I can't find anything that says whether it does or doesn't. Just that when a model is hit you can choose to roll against either it's armour or FNP, but not both.

??

 

 

The new Shield of Sanguinius gives a 4++. This takes the place of the saving throw and has nothing to do with FnP. I've got no idea where you're getting this info from, have I missed something? :(

[Bartali]

At the moment I don't think the BA powers are worth taking a Librarian for. They're buffs that apply to one unit only, and each buff can be only cast once a turn. They seem designed for last edition and death stars.

 

The aura buffs (which don't kill the character/their unit, can't be denied etc) from the other characters work a lot better with MSU which 8th ed seems to favour so far

[NTaW]

 

Whatever FnP is called now, it's another roll after your armour save against wounds caused.

 

 

Actually, the new FnP is performed on damage. So it's:

• Roll To Hit -> Roll To Wound -> make any saving throws -> roll/apply Damage -> make the appropriate number of FnP rolls. This is what I was questioning without having the leaks in front of me

 

 

Many thousands of apologies, I wrote 'wounds caused' after armour saves have been taken instead of 'damage caused'. The intent was the same and more appropriate words will be used as 6th/7th fades from my memory.

 

Worth keeping in mind that only mortal wounds can transfer to another model; all damage done from one hit can only be allocated to the model hit. For example a Lascannon that rolls a six for damage can only do that damage to one model. From what I understand, anyway.

[Morticon]

I think Mephy is a solid beatstick, and the 4++ power is absolutely invaluable.  

 

[Brother_Mike]

Being able to get a 4++ on my librarian dreadnought aka gunfire magnet is REALLY good.

Being able to get a 4++ on my Stormraven aka gunfire magnet is REALLY good.

Being able to get a 4++ on my Sanguinary Guard aka invul save-less expensive unit is REALLY good.

And that's not even mentioning the +1A you get from Unleash Rage, in an edition where getting +1A isn't nearly as easy as it used to be. I'm sensing a pattern here

[H311fi5h]

Being able to get a 4++ on my librarian dreadnought aka gunfire magnet is REALLY good.

 

Your Librarian Dreadnought is now a Character with less then 10 wounds ;)

[Brother_Mike]

Being able to get a 4++ on my librarian dreadnought aka gunfire magnet is REALLY good.

Your Librarian Dreadnought is now a Character with less then 10 wounds

A great point. The 4++ helps it out in the close combat tho, where characters can be targeted as easily as a regular unit. And since I'd want dat boi participating in fight phases as much as possible, still super useful for any character without an invul normally

[Demoulius]

Being able to get a 4++ on my librarian dreadnought aka gunfire magnet is REALLY good.

Your Librarian Dreadnought is now a Character with less then 10 wounds

A great point. The 4++ helps it out in the close combat tho, where characters can be targeted as easily as a regular unit. And since I'd want dat boi participating in fight phases as much as possible, still super useful for any character without an invul normally

If hes a character he cant be targetted unless hes the closest model or your opponent has sniper rifles as well. Unless im forgetting something? Seems to me that also ups their survivability alot!

[NTaW]

Does the Libbynaught's status as a vehicle/dreadnought negate the no targeting characters unless they're the closest rule? If not then I'm quite glad I magnetized the front plates of my Furioso Dreadnoughts.

[JamesI]

Does the Libbynaught's status as a vehicle/dreadnought negate the no targeting characters unless they're the closest rule? If not then I'm quite glad I magnetized the front plates of my Furioso Dreadnoughts.

Nope.  Any character with less than 10 wounds (like a Librarian dread) can only be targeted if closest.

[NTaW]

Well that is simply fantastic. I look forward to having my DC shield a Libbynaught from enemy fire while it casts Shield on them to keep them alive.

[Fallenturtle]

I wish I could include more psykers in my 2k list than just mephiston for this reason. Taking Shield + Rage is probably what makes these units that look ok on paper (see death company/Sanguinary guard etc) actually be feared and is probably what they play tested in the rules. 

 

8th edition shall right now be known as the "Synergy" edition til further notice. I expect each of the "top table" lists to include massive synergy in them.

[Brother_Mike]

Being able to get a 4++ on my librarian dreadnought aka gunfire magnet is REALLY good.

Your Librarian Dreadnought is now a Character with less then 10 wounds

A great point. The 4++ helps it out in the close combat tho, where characters can be targeted as easily as a regular unit. And since I'd want dat boi participating in fight phases as much as possible, still super useful for any character without an invul normally

If hes a character he cant be targetted unless hes the closest model or your opponent has sniper rifles as well. Unless im forgetting something? Seems to me that also ups their survivability alot!

My understanding of the rules as they are written is that:

- In the shooting phase, the picking targets section specifically states a character can only be targeted if they are the closest model to the shooting unit

- In the Fight (close combat) phase, in the picking targets section, there is no specific mention of characters can only be chosen for attacking if they are the closest model etc. So that implies to me that characters can be chosen as targets in close combat as easily as a regular unit of bois

I wish I could include more psykers in my 2k list than just mephiston for this reason. Taking Shield + Rage is probably what makes these units that look ok on paper (see death company/Sanguinary guard etc) actually be feared and is probably what they play tested in the rules.

8th edition shall right now be known as the "Synergy" edition til further notice. I expect each of the "top table" lists to include massive synergy in them.

My favorite buzzword at work to describe teamwork has also become my favorite buzzword for 40k