Marshal Mattias Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 My crusader squads were great in my few games of 8th so far. Playing at 500-750 points, they bring tactical flexibility which I duly ignored in favour of punching things! I must say, every 5-man plas/missile unit failed to do much to anything, until they charged into combat and helped turn the tides. However, my squads with chainswords did a great job of chopping up pretty much everything they ran into. Weight of attacks, plus a little character support, meant they overran everything from chaos chosen to terminator wolfguard. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334679-8th-edition-and-the-crusader-squad/page/3/#findComment-4796292 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gendo Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 My crusader squads were great in my few games of 8th so far. Playing at 500-750 points, they bring tactical flexibility which I duly ignored in favour of punching things! I must say, every 5-man plas/missile unit failed to do much to anything, until they charged into combat and helped turn the tides. However, my squads with chainswords did a great job of chopping up pretty much everything they ran into. Weight of attacks, plus a little character support, meant they overran everything from chaos chosen to terminator wolfguard. How did you run your squads? Separate shooting/combat or mixed up? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334679-8th-edition-and-the-crusader-squad/page/3/#findComment-4796294 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilamandaros Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 From my experience in games so far the best way to run them is min squads of chainswords with a Thunder Hammer for the sword brother and no other upgrades, put them with a Chaplain (ideally 2-3 with Grimaldus in a LRC) and they will do good damge in melee for their points. Can't stress how good Grimaldus is this edition, he turns fairly mediocre assault units (like Crusader squads) into killing machines. Savour the looks of anguish on your opponents face as your 20 attacks turns into 30, all rerolling Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334679-8th-edition-and-the-crusader-squad/page/3/#findComment-4796497 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medjugorje Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 I wondering about that so much of you hype the crusaders,... in my opinion they are very bad. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334679-8th-edition-and-the-crusader-squad/page/3/#findComment-4796899 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castellan Doren Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 They're not bad, but morale rules make them less than ideal. So until GW alters something to make the squad useful at full strength, we pretty much have to run 5 man compact units without neophytes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334679-8th-edition-and-the-crusader-squad/page/3/#findComment-4796906 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firepower Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 I wondering about that so much of you hype the crusaders,... in my opinion they are very bad. What makes you think they're very bad? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334679-8th-edition-and-the-crusader-squad/page/3/#findComment-4797022 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acebaur Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 I wondering about that so much of you hype the crusaders,... in my opinion they are very bad. What makes you think they're very bad? Yeah I'm curious too, they are a straight upgrade from Tac squads and have a multitude of ways to run them. They are also solid in CC for a troop choice and when buffed by someone like Helbrecht or Grimaldus they can be pretty scary Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334679-8th-edition-and-the-crusader-squad/page/3/#findComment-4797027 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firepower Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 I'd say they're where they've always been- slightly above average Marines. Not an uber unit, but not 'very bad.' Like Ace said, they're a flat out upgrade on the Tactical Squad, more now than ever. There are bad ways to run them, but you can say that for almost any unit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334679-8th-edition-and-the-crusader-squad/page/3/#findComment-4797050 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal_Roujakis Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 I ran them today against Orks... they can get bogged down and the battleshock can see them overwhelmed, but having a character boost them a bit makes them quite formidable in either melee or ranged... In terms of character, it was just a Cataphractii Marshal who walked behind them and granted them rerolls 1 which turned the table against a decently sized Ork squad... Cataphractii Marshals are terrifying as well... I ran him with a Thunder Hammer and a Power Sword and he wrecked face and tanked shots like no tomorrow... so much for no tanky characters... I have to say though, Meltaguns are a terrible weapon to use for Crusader Squads... they get 1 shot, and it's actually weaker to use against vehicles even at close range... I shot at an Ork truck twice, only wounding 3 times... Time to swap for Flamers to try and deal more damage... or maybe Thunder Hammers and a Power Fist to deal with armored targets... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334679-8th-edition-and-the-crusader-squad/page/3/#findComment-4797090 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kisada Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 I played 1 game 2v2, 1000pts a person. I had 3 Crusader squads. 9 initiates, chainswords, flamer, power axe, power fist SB (haven't painted up a TH one yet) 10 initiates, chainswords, flamer, power sword, power fist SB and 2 neophytes. They ran into 2 squads of plague marines and a squad of pox walkers. (Later a squad of cultists joined in). My crusaders were backed by a normal chaplain and the emperor's champion. The 9 man squad did nothing to the plague marines and were in turn chopped up with some being turned into pox walkers. The larger squad did better at lasting. The squad survived the 2 rounds of combat they were in. The regular chaplain wasn't very impressive ... but the Emperor's Champion ... oh man ... slaughtered Typhus and the Chaos sorcerer in terminator armor. I don't know how I feel about running the flamers ... both my charges were far enough that if I killed 2 or more models with the flamer my charges would have been very difficult. I also had a 5 man SB combiplasma, plasma, missile launcher, 2 bolters squad. They hid in some cover and tried their best to shoot things ... luckily a squad of possessed tried to attack partner's attack bike right in front of me. The bike survived and fell back, leaving the possessed in rapid fire range. 1 possessed survived by the end of the game. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334679-8th-edition-and-the-crusader-squad/page/3/#findComment-4797150 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ebon Hand Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 Something to note on the topic of Crusader squad size: a bigger squad will benefit more efficiently from buff bubbles that buff the unit and command strategem rerolls for charging or counter assault strategems. Also, when Vehicle explodes, each unit will take D(X) mortal wounds. Keep this in mind when using vehicles with large capacity like the LR Crusader and the Imperial bastion. I think there's a case to be made for full crusader squads when multi charges are as easy as ever and shielding your characters is a concern. Just make sure to tend to their morale. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334679-8th-edition-and-the-crusader-squad/page/3/#findComment-4797982 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gendo Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 Had my first game vs Orks and I can say the Crusader Squads did great! Had a 14 man one in the LRC with 2 Axes, Plasma gun, Plasma pistol 3 Bolters on Neophytes and the rest Chainswords. Engaged a large Boyz unit first with the shooting and then I got assaulted, I was outnumbered at least 2 to 1 in the fight but the 3 Attacks from the power weapons helped a lot, Grimaldus got stuck in later on when i had little left and helped out but not sure he's worth it over a plain Chaplain, had an Apothecary which i forgot about rolling in the movement phase every single time.. Overall worked very well and happy with mixed squads, when i lost the most models i used the stratagem to auto pass the morale test and the rest of the times the high leadership was enough. The fight phase has a lot going on and even thought i totally forgot about pile in and consolidate moves i managed well with clever removal of casualties Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334679-8th-edition-and-the-crusader-squad/page/3/#findComment-4803214 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medjugorje Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 With Helbrecht i had much fun against a Night Lord army. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334679-8th-edition-and-the-crusader-squad/page/3/#findComment-4803414 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HastPER Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 Neophytes can't have chainswords in the Index Imperium 1 ?? Am I reading that right? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334679-8th-edition-and-the-crusader-squad/page/3/#findComment-4805206 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kisada Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 Neophytes can't have chainswords in the Index Imperium 1 ?? Am I reading that right? combat knife and chainsword have exactly the same stats though Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334679-8th-edition-and-the-crusader-squad/page/3/#findComment-4805231 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ciler Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 Neophytes can't have chainswords in the Index Imperium 1 ?? Am I reading that right?combat knife and chainsword have exactly the same stats though That is correct. They are for all intents and purposes the same thing. There's the same situation in the Space Wolves entry for Grey Hunters. They used to be built with a knife as extra CCW, there's plenty of sheathed knives in the box for that purpose, but their index entry lists "chainsword". I think common sense applies there and not even a tournament organiser would begrudge a neophyte with a chainsword. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334679-8th-edition-and-the-crusader-squad/page/3/#findComment-4805286 Share on other sites More sharing options...
gally912 Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 Well if you go full fluffy they are certainly the only source for infantry heavy weapons, which makes them a good buy. I'm mulling over a few plas/las(missile?) for obj holding fire support, and a 15 man in a crusader (plus char) to charge as many opponents as possible to eat overwatch and tie up shooting with pile in, while the sword brothers (vanguard + assault termies0 do the scalpeling work. In this sense, I think they do there jobs very well, and can be above average tac and (on foot) assault marines. They leave nothing to be desired for me, save trying to find an extra attack for the powerweapon initiate. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334679-8th-edition-and-the-crusader-squad/page/3/#findComment-4805542 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilamandaros Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 New FAQ out - big Grimaldus nerf changing his buff to models within 6" rather than units. Really stops the viability of big Crusader squads in black tide, sad times. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334679-8th-edition-and-the-crusader-squad/page/3/#findComment-4805797 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schlitzaf Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 I don't believe so, the new wording says "If you roll a 6+ to hit for a model in a Friendly Black Templar that is within 6'...." I read that as the unit has to part of a squad that is within 6" of Grimaldus. Not the model itself Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334679-8th-edition-and-the-crusader-squad/page/3/#findComment-4805907 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilamandaros Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 But then it follows up with 'that model can immediately make another close combat attack using the same weapon' implying it has to be the specific model that's within 6" of Grimaldus, not the unit. It is different to Helbrecht's rule which simply states 'all models' - however I don't see why they would have FAQd it otherwise to just complicate the wording. Hmmm Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334679-8th-edition-and-the-crusader-squad/page/3/#findComment-4805923 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schlitzaf Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 That way you cannot claim "Chain Bro hit so my Ax Bro gets another attack" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334679-8th-edition-and-the-crusader-squad/page/3/#findComment-4805925 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firepower Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 Yeah, it's very specifically models, not whole units. Pity. But 6" is a larger radius than a lot of folks seem to realize. A nerf, but not crippling. On a more irritating note, Ironclads have to pay for their assault launchers now. But that's getting off topic I suppose. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334679-8th-edition-and-the-crusader-squad/page/3/#findComment-4805991 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schlitzaf Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 Fire, why would it have the "friendly unit in 6'" clause? If it only applied to models Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334679-8th-edition-and-the-crusader-squad/page/3/#findComment-4806002 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Christopher Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 Regarding Grimaldus, this is a FAQ entry which on the surface generates needless confusion. The purpose of the errata is to address cases of models with more than one weapon. I read it as Grimaldus' aura still affects units within 6", not models. The wording in the errata is intended to be a more specific way of putting what was in the original entry: "If you roll a hit roll of 6+ in the Fight phase [for a model, which somewhat needlessly specifies that the 6+ roll is for a model]" in a BT UNIT 6" of Grimaldus. So a model which is 8" of Grimaldus, but is a part of a unit within 6" of the Chaplain still gets an additional attack with the weapon that got a 6+ roll. Say that the same model has a chainsword and a power fist and rolls a 6 for the chainswords and 3 and 4 for the power fist. With the current wording, the 6 on the chainsword specifically generates another chainsword attack. The previous wordign allowed for "exchanging" the 6 from the chainword for another power fist swing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334679-8th-edition-and-the-crusader-squad/page/3/#findComment-4806046 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysere Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 All the faq really does is make it clear that while the unit benefits from the rule, it's the models themselves that are generating the additional attacks. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334679-8th-edition-and-the-crusader-squad/page/3/#findComment-4806163 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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