MK III armor and jump packs

[Jarl of Wulfen]

I'm using the Prospero box to build 30k looking space wolves and was wondering if jump packs on mk3 armor would be out of place? I thought I read in the fluff somewhere that mk3 was heavier and wasn't good for jump troops, it was more of a boarding action armor. Any thoughts?

[Joe]

Avoid it. Asides from the fact it's ugly to look at it's horribly unfluffy as well.

 

Stick to the other armour marks.

[Jarl of Wulfen]

Ok, thanks. I'll see if I can get my hands on some more mk4

[1ncarnadine]

I'm using the Prospero box to build 30k looking space wolves and was wondering if jump packs on mk3 armor would be out of place? I thought I read in the fluff somewhere that mk3 was heavier and wasn't good for jump troops, it was more of a boarding action armor. Any thoughts?

 

This is like some kind of fan myth, much like "Dark Angels use tons of volkite weaponry," although that one's a little dead since the Dark Angels rules dropped in Retribution. It just gets repeated a lot and then we internalize it, but it's not official. It's stated a lot that MkIII is better for boarding actions and attritional warfare, but then we, the fans, made the logical leap that that's why there aren't MkIII assault marine models. FW actually did plan on making them at one point and just never got around to it. If you look too hard, you'll also notice there's no MkV Despoiler squad, for similar reasons. Not enough time. Here's a link to an old interview with Alan Bligh where he even states that it was planned: http://apocalypse40k.blogspot.com/2013/05/horus-heresy-alan-bligh-answers-your.html

 

So, go for it if you want to model it! I will say that I don't think that the MkIII armour looks good with a jump pack on the back. I think it's the squat legs that make it look terrible to me. So there's that aesthetic aspect to consider, and if FW couldn't make them look good, that might be why they didn't pursue the kit as a priority. Hard to say!

 

There is further precedence in the fluff, by the way. Argel Tal has MkIII armour and jump pack in the early sections of The First Heretic, and the Word Bearers also make use of a MkIII armour sub-type with their Ashen Circle jump troops. Then there's a Blood Angel named Zephon who has a jump pack and a MkIII helmet in Master of Mankind, although we don't know for certain if he has a full suit of MkIII armour. Actually, MkIII helmets on the MkII assault squad kit would probably look pretty rad.

[Memento Of Prospero]

 

I'm using the Prospero box to build 30k looking space wolves and was wondering if jump packs on mk3 armor would be out of place? I thought I read in the fluff somewhere that mk3 was heavier and wasn't good for jump troops, it was more of a boarding action armor. Any thoughts?

 

This is like some kind of fan myth, much like "Dark Angels use tons of volkite weaponry," although that one's a little dead since the Dark Angels rules dropped in Retribution. It just gets repeated a lot and then we internalize it, but it's not official. It's stated a lot that MkIII is better for boarding actions and attritional warfare, but then we, the fans, made the logical leap that that's why there aren't MkIII assault marine models. FW actually did plan on making them at one point and just never got around to it. If you look too hard, you'll also notice there's no MkV Despoiler squad, for similar reasons. Not enough time. Here's a link to an old interview with Alan Bligh where he even states that it was planned: http://apocalypse40k.blogspot.com/2013/05/horus-heresy-alan-bligh-answers-your.html

 

So, go for it if you want to model it! I will say that I don't think that the MkIII armour looks good with a jump pack on the back. I think it's the squat legs that make it look terrible to me. So there's that aesthetic aspect to consider, and if FW couldn't make them look good, that might be why they didn't pursue the kit as a priority. Hard to say!

 

There is further precedence in the fluff, by the way. Argel Tal has MkIII armour and jump pack in the early sections of The First Heretic, and the Word Bearers also make use of a MkIII armour sub-type with their Ashen Circle jump troops. Then there's a Blood Angel named Zephon who has a jump pack and a MkIII helmet in Master of Mankind, although we don't know for certain if he has a full suit of MkIII armour. Actually, MkIII helmets on the MkII assault squad kit would probably look pretty rad.

 

 

Word Bearers using MKIII for jump infantry was the first sign of heresy...

[Sandlemad]

Background-wise, it's really very easy to handwave away. Say these are rare heavy lift jump packs, or that they need more maintenance when used with mk.III, or they have to be replaced between battle, or your force is under wartime stress and has to make do, etc etc.

 

LetsYouDown has the right of it, the usual fan opinion is just extrapolated out of FW's choices and other snippets of background, not specifically stated as hard and cold facts. If you like the look of, go for it.

 

It's been discussed quite a bit on here, you might find some inspiration.

[Calas Typhon]

its been covered on many occasions so i wont go into this too much

 

Some reasons for: 

- its never been stated that it could not happen

- frontal protection when jumping in

- could balance the wearer

 

against: 

- potentially far too heavy to take off with ease and any swiftness

- reduced protection behind. If it explodes or takes heavy damage, easy damage to the rear of the legs

- it does not look too great

- far better choices in armour from a fluff point. Why take something that could leave you worse off than something with decent protection and possibly lighter?

- the armour was not exactly designed for the type of warfare assault marines (jump) flourish in.

 

In my opinion, far more negative than positive.

[Dantay VI]

Jump packs on mark 3 armour works for me!!

 

Hidden Content

http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb456/dantay_xv/20170323_111036.jpg

 

http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb456/dantay_xv/20170318_231637.jpg

 

http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb456/dantay_xv/20170318_231339.jpg

 

http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb456/dantay_xv/20151113_221445.jpg

 

http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb456/dantay_xv/20151113_221516.jpg

 

http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb456/dantay_xv/20151113_221227.jpg

 

[Olis]

In my opinion, the chief detriment for Iron armour was the by-product of what made it good - it's chiefly designed for frontal assault, taking away armour thickness from the rear and adding it to the front. The less well armoured area is a weak spot, one which can be exploited by any enemy sufficiently wise to the armour mark, like other space marines for example. It's better to use the equipment for what it's designed for, if possible, than give it to troops who will have to compensate for weak armour.

 

That said, it's your models, you get to choose how they're used. :wink:

[Dantay VI]

I thought mrk 3 was just mark 2 armour with more plates stuck on the front o help provide protection in the close confines of boarding actions or tunnel fighting.

 

Therefore reduced armour to the rear wasn't really reduced, it just wasn't up-armoured as the front had been.

 

At the end of the day, all armour marks give a 3+ save, so roll with mark 3 if you want to.

[Olis]

Hmm. I could have sworn I read that somewhere. Still, open melee is not the preferred forte for the relatively clumsy armour mark. 

[Dantay VI]

True but imagine how flat and squished your opponent would be when you descend upon your opponents head wearing rocket propelled iron armour :D

[Olis]

True but imagine how flat and squished your opponent would be when you descend upon your opponents head wearing rocket propelled iron armour

 

The fighting prowess of pancakes is not generally renowned... ^_^

[Brother-Chaplain Kage]

1) Never conclusively stated anywhere that they're too heavy for jump packs to lift

2) In the game, there is no special rule for marines in MK III gaining a benefit for their up-armored gear so it must not be that significant. 

3) It's your models and your money, do with them what you want. 

4) Jump packs on MK III looks awesome. 

Edited June 14, 2017 by Brother Chaplain Kage

[ROBOcaster]

I also want to add that in Master of Mankind "The Bringer of Sorrow" a Blood Angel wore MKIII and had a jump pack, so do what you will with that information i guess.

[Memento Of Prospero]

I also want to add that in Master of Mankind "The Bringer of Sorrow" a Blood Angel wore MKIII and had a jump pack, so do what you will with that information i guess.

A MK3 Helm

[Plaguecaster]

Screw other people's opinions it's your models and if you want Mrk3 jump pack marines do it :) I do it myself as it looks awesome and when people moan during games I tell them be quiet or buy me a brand new assault squad in a different armour pattern if it really matters that much to them :D Edited June 15, 2017 by teutonicavenger

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

As said its your models, you should build them according to the aesthetics you desire. Just tune out those occasionally annoying fluffsters.

[Kizzdougs]

I recon MkIII would look awesome with jump-packs, and the fact that it's more heavily armoured to the front would be perfect for Assault Marines :tu:

[Brother-Chaplain Kage]

 

 

[Charlo]

When I get onto my BA, all of the assault marines will be MkIII base - going for a brutal siege force so it fits.

[Ganders]

http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii160/gordonayr/Mobile%20Uploads/deathguard_sml_zpsriebziup.jpg

 

Visions of Heresy awesomeness.

[Calas Typhon]

I thought mrk 3 was just mark 2 armour with more plates stuck on the front o help provide protection in the close confines of boarding actions or tunnel fighting.

 

Therefore reduced armour to the rear wasn't really reduced, it just wasn't up-armoured as the front had been.

 

At the end of the day, all armour marks give a 3+ save, so roll with mark 3 if you want to.

 

It was reduced to compensate for the heavy weight at the front. It was a speciality armour mark designed for close combat in squat worlds iirc, rather than a replacement for mark 2.

[A D-B]

 

I'm using the Prospero box to build 30k looking space wolves and was wondering if jump packs on mk3 armor would be out of place? I thought I read in the fluff somewhere that mk3 was heavier and wasn't good for jump troops, it was more of a boarding action armor. Any thoughts?

 

This is like some kind of fan myth, much like "Dark Angels use tons of volkite weaponry," although that one's a little dead since the Dark Angels rules dropped in Retribution. It just gets repeated a lot and then we internalize it, but it's not official. It's stated a lot that MkIII is better for boarding actions and attritional warfare, but then we, the fans, made the logical leap that that's why there aren't MkIII assault marine models. FW actually did plan on making them at one point and just never got around to it. If you look too hard, you'll also notice there's no MkV Despoiler squad, for similar reasons. Not enough time. Here's a link to an old interview with Alan Bligh where he even states that it was planned: http://apocalypse40k.blogspot.com/2013/05/horus-heresy-alan-bligh-answers-your.html

 

So, go for it if you want to model it! I will say that I don't think that the MkIII armour looks good with a jump pack on the back. I think it's the squat legs that make it look terrible to me. So there's that aesthetic aspect to consider, and if FW couldn't make them look good, that might be why they didn't pursue the kit as a priority. Hard to say!

 

There is further precedence in the fluff, by the way. Argel Tal has MkIII armour and jump pack in the early sections of The First Heretic, and the Word Bearers also make use of a MkIII armour sub-type with their Ashen Circle jump troops. Then there's a Blood Angel named Zephon who has a jump pack and a MkIII helmet in Master of Mankind, although we don't know for certain if he has a full suit of MkIII armour. Actually, MkIII helmets on the MkII assault squad kit would probably look pretty rad.

 

As if this needed any more backing up (and as if bolting on a little more ceramite to a freaking Space Marine would really add that much weight to what's already an ungainly brick)

it also makes plenty of sense when you consider just what Assault Marines are. They're not Mandalorians in Clone Wars, flying around and having aerial battles. They're not super-fast dudes with jet packs who fly everywhere. They're shock troops, and above that, they're shock infantry. They jump out of gunships to land with insane force in the middle of enemy formations; they're Space Marines that slaughter their way through a unit and then boost in a big jumping arc with two freaking massive turbines strapped to their back, to clear distance fast and engage another unit. The things on their backs aren't jet packs to swoosh and soar. They're jump packs, to jump out of gunships and not die when you hit the ground, and to take you in an insane leap across the battlefield when you need to move there fast.

 

Which further illustrates why a Legion like the Raven Guard, which tries to make a hammer into something more precise and graceful, stand out when they do it. They're the ones that try to take in that direction. They're not the default.

 

It's in the art, it's in the lore, it looks badass, and perhaps most importantly, it makes sense lore-wise. So go with whatever you like.

Edited June 16, 2017 by A D-B

[carlisimo]

The only reason I'd discourage putting jump packs on Burning of Prospero marines is that dedicated assault marine kits have legs that are posed more appropriately.

Heavy frontal armor sounds handy when you're going to leap right into a trench, and as people have said, we have precedents like the Ashen Circle.