Thousand Sons in Newhammer

[Bluthusten]

Hey Guys,

 

did someone played with the new TS yet? I ordered a bunch of these guys yesterday :D

 

I think Magnus + Exalted on Disc are pretty solid, but what about the Rubrics, Skarabs and Tzaangors? And which playstyle do you prefer? Just spam smite with a lot 5-man squads? Of deepstrike 2/3 Terminator Squads with special weapons? I have no idea :D

[Sonoftherubric21]

As of 8th Edition the Thousand Sons are miles better of where they were in 7th. 

 

Rubric Marines are point for point basically the chaos equivalent of sternguard.  They have great guns (-2 ap bolters), access to a -2 ap flamer, and a gun at 10 man that is enviable (the soul reaper) for most units (4 shots ap -3) with no negatives to moving and firing it. They are a fantastic troop unit, or even a good elite unit depending on list build.  And are WAY cheaper then last edition, they went from being a tax, and became a truly capable troop unit that I really wouldn't hesitate to throw at most things in the game. 

 

As of this edition they are cheaper (coming in at 20 points a model assuming bolter) and more effective on the table, and are honestly one of the most survivable infantry in the game.

 

The "all is dust" rule means basic small arms / weak attacks have alot of trouble harming them, and even big guns have to chew through an invulnerable save of 5++ often re-rolling ones due to the Thousand Sons command ability on Exalted/Ahirman/Magnus.   there is basically nothing in the game short of mortal wound spam that will "efficiently" remove a unit of rubrics. I have had them charged by 6+ terminators and a hero and still be around 2-3 turns later, and I have had a blob of 14 get slammed by 60 some odd boyz....and 4 turns later they were STILL grinding those buggers.  I almost always field 2 units, and in 2k I ramp it up to 3. Worth it. 

The Scarab Occult might just be one of the best Shooting terminators in the game, much loved for now having a great stat-line, great survivability, a reasonable price point far cheaper then last edition (40 points cheaper), and having EXTREMELY dangerous basic weaponry (-2 Twin bolters for 2 shots at 24, and 4 shots at 12) needless to say, these guys are just upscaled nastier rubrics for 20-40 more points depending on unit load out.  Take everything I said for rubrics; apply it to the Scarab Occult and ramp it up to 11. 

Tzaangors went from "meh" in 7th; to Fantastic in 8th, they are 1 point more then an ork boy, and they come with 1 less attack, but gain a 5++ invulnerable save, and also have Str 4 / T4  Free weapon swap, so you either get 2 attacks and an autopistol shot, OR 2 attacks at -1 ap during assault with no gun.  They are a very good unit this edition, I rarely leave home without them! 

 

You may have noticed I haven't talked about Psychics much; our Psyker output suffered come 8th, but it was a worthy trade since we know have a full functional army list.   Ahriman and Magnus both shot down drastically in points and I am hard pressed to find a game where I dont want to take one or the other, both are great and fully capable on the table for good price points. 

 

Exalted sorcerers are also very good, coming with what is essentially a Chaos Lord statline but with far fewer gear options (Locked to Stave, power armor, and a 5++ invul save only! Only gear option is a Disc which gives Fly keyword) but are much cheaper to compensate and quite good in combat as support in the list. 

[ChazSexington]

Sonoftherubric mentioned it, but it bears mentioning again - your psychic output is much reduced in matched play. Your boys are gonna be smiting all the time rather than anything else. 

[Xenith]

What do we think about warpflamers?

[Sonoftherubric21]

What do we think about warpflamers?

 

Expensive; but fantastic. 

 

The RNG of D6 shots is annoying, but if you roll OVER a 2 you are hitting statistically more then any bolter ever could.  Overall great in sparing numbers. 

[Archaeinox]

I've been pretty much tabling anything short of horde Tyranids thanks to the -2 AP Warpflamers, Inferno Bolters/Combi-Bolters and of course multiple 'normal' Smites from Exalteds on Disc. I use Ahriman for the Warp Time and Prescience to make the scarabs hurt stuff even more, and move into charge range after teleporting in turn 1 or 2. We are fine in 8th.

[Bluthusten]

But why should i take Ahriman over a exalted on disc?

 

I think ill try smth like this:

 

Magnus

10 Rubrica (dont know which weapons :/) in rhino

5 Terminators with rocket/cannon/3 bolters

20 Tzaangors

And a exalted or Ahriman, for 1reroll and +1 Hit power.

 

Than my guys hit on rerollable 2+ :D

[Daenerys Targaryen]

Shooting wise they've suddenly become just as terrifying & efficient as their background has for so long now,  made them out to be - you'll be mowing down even MEQ's like it's going out of fashion!

Add in the typical supporting units of a 'traditional' 1kSons army such as some Dreadnoughts,  Predators & daemon engines,  and it's a well enough rounded force that it should be able to compete well vs. most anyting.

 

On the psychic side of things though?  Well,  in Matched Play,  which is typically the 'default' play mode for most people,  and especially in any kind of LGS environment,  1kSons have suddenly had every last ounce of character & uniqueness utterly ripped away from them.

'Rule of One' is the single most moronic,  stupid rule ever conceived of in 40k's history...  1kSons,  & especially GK's & Tzeentch Daemons took a completely unnecessary nerf batting,  and for a good number of people,  it's all but destroyed their main enjoyment of why you'd choose such a uniquely niche force.

 

So IMHO,  it's really a 'glass half empty' situation at the moment...

Our shooting is bloody amazing now.  But just shooting IS NOT! what made 1kSons an interesting & unique army,  and so,  while they'll win way more games now,  it seems like we've traded away our very souls for a boost up to the middle of the pack/slightly above middle road status.

[Bluthusten]

Maybe well get a book of Thousand Sons in the Future with our own powers/ rules etc.

 

I hope very soon :D

[Prot]

Ahriman's plus one to tests denials and a third power are good enough for me.

[Archaeinox]

Ahriman's plus one to tests denials and a third power are good enough for me.

 

Yep. 29pts difference, ITS WORTH IT.

[Bluthusten]

Oh...did not read the "psyker"-part...okay and flat 3 damage in melee. Well hes worth it :D :D :D

[Bluthusten]

Which setup do you guys prefer for Tzaangors?

 

Both give us +1 attack, but pistols can shot (even in Cc) but the blades gives -1 ap

 

Hard choice

[Skerr]

Both loadouts have their uses.

 

Chainswords and pistols has great potential against hoards with the extra attack in cc and the Shooting phase.

 

The tzangoor blades can fare batter against better armored foes with a modifier to the opponents armor safe.

 

I have 40 torsos ready for weapons and have decided to go 20/20 even split.

 

My meta is cool with "counts as" if I need more than 20.

 

After these 40 are done half and half painted, based, I would likely split each new box 5 and 5 and slowly add to each group.

 

If I knew what my opponent is running and the circumstances called for it I might bring multiple units, some kitted with pistols and others with tzangoor blades.

 

Have not played 8th yet and not sure where my goatbird final herd counts needs to be but as stated my start is 40 kitted half and half.

 

But those numbers were based on a 7th Ed warherd formation to join a war coven/cabal (dang, I forgot all ready!!) detachment with minimal Rubrics and more SOTS. I am now looking at two 10-12 man units of rubes (a couple warp flamers sprinkled in) maybe an additional Five man unit of all warpflamer on occasions. I likely will have two 5 man unit of SOTs or one 7-8 man. This will have an effect on how many goatbirds I can fit into a 1500 to 2000 pt list, not to mention preds, brutes and or drakes.

 

But I love the goatbirds and will make room. Here birdy, birdy baaaaaah....

Edited June 15, 2017 by Skerr

[Prot]

I mostly have used the double armed Tzaangors. Getting the extra attack and -1AP is really the payout to me, plus the instrument works best if you are advancing in T1/ assaulting T2.

 

The pistold/chainsword is darn good though. I just find that T1 I'm advancing rather than shooting and in CC the pistols would come in handy but things die pretty fast, and that includes Tzaangors.

 

I prefer to use pistol/sword Tzaangors protecting my HQ... ready to accept the charge if need be with overwatch. The problem is might aren't put together yet so I'm using cultists for that right now... which are okay, and have better shooty weapons but their personal stats are worse, and Tzaangors have the 5++ re-roll 1's (within 6")

[JamesI]

I got one game in so far with Thousand Sons, and was impressed.  Even with the psychic limits, smite was able to solve most problems the rest of my list couldn't.  

 

I use Ahriman and a Daemon Prince instead of Magnus for the points.  I enjoy trying a few units I haven't played in awhile, like Defilers.

 

For Tzaangor, I ran a split of blades/chainswords and pistols.  Not sure which I like more yet, the pistols aren't very good but every little bit helps sometimes.

[Bluthusten]

Mh i have no idea which weapons my 2x10 Rubrics should take. I rly like the soulreaper, but whats about the rest? Full bolters? Full flamer (expensive) or up to 2/3/4 flamer per unit just for overwatch?

 

Edit:

 

9 Marines + Sorcerer

8 Bolter + Soulreaper = 243 Points

 

9 Marines + Sorcerer

5 Bolter, Soulreaper + 3 flamer = 302 Points

 

 

What do you think guys?

Edited June 16, 2017 by Bluthusten

[Mr Smith]

On the psychic side of things though?  Well,  in Matched Play,  which is typically the 'default' play mode for most people,  and especially in any kind of LGS environment,  1kSons have suddenly had every last ounce of character & uniqueness utterly ripped away from them.

'Rule of One' is the single most moronic,  stupid rule ever conceived of in 40k's history...  1kSons,  & especially GK's & Tzeentch Daemons took a completely unnecessary nerf batting,  and for a good number of people,  it's all but destroyed their main enjoyment of why you'd choose such a uniquely niche force.

 

What rule is this?  I've been out of the loop since for the last couple of months and haven't had the chance to really get into 8th Edition yet.

[Kaiju Soze]

 

On the psychic side of things though?  Well,  in Matched Play,  which is typically the 'default' play mode for most people,  and especially in any kind of LGS environment,  1kSons have suddenly had every last ounce of character & uniqueness utterly ripped away from them.

'Rule of One' is the single most moronic,  stupid rule ever conceived of in 40k's history...  1kSons,  & especially GK's & Tzeentch Daemons took a completely unnecessary nerf batting,  and for a good number of people,  it's all but destroyed their main enjoyment of why you'd choose such a uniquely niche force.

 

What rule is this?  I've been out of the loop since for the last couple of months and haven't had the chance to really get into 8th Edition yet.

 

"Rule of One" - in Matched Play you can only attempt each psychic power once across the entire army, aside from Smite.  So you can't have two sorcerers both cast Warp Time, for example.

[Mr Smith]

 

 

On the psychic side of things though?  Well,  in Matched Play,  which is typically the 'default' play mode for most people,  and especially in any kind of LGS environment,  1kSons have suddenly had every last ounce of character & uniqueness utterly ripped away from them.

'Rule of One' is the single most moronic,  stupid rule ever conceived of in 40k's history...  1kSons,  & especially GK's & Tzeentch Daemons took a completely unnecessary nerf batting,  and for a good number of people,  it's all but destroyed their main enjoyment of why you'd choose such a uniquely niche force.

 

What rule is this?  I've been out of the loop since for the last couple of months and haven't had the chance to really get into 8th Edition yet.

 

"Rule of One" - in Matched Play you can only attempt each psychic power once across the entire army, aside from Smite.  So you can't have two sorcerers both cast Warp Time, for example.

 

 

I can see the point of this: It'll prevent the spamming of the more powerful (or broken) powers and keep things interesting.  The Aspiring Sorcerers can only cast 'Diet Smite' anyway.

[Panzer]

 

 

 

On the psychic side of things though?  Well,  in Matched Play,  which is typically the 'default' play mode for most people,  and especially in any kind of LGS environment,  1kSons have suddenly had every last ounce of character & uniqueness utterly ripped away from them.

'Rule of One' is the single most moronic,  stupid rule ever conceived of in 40k's history...  1kSons,  & especially GK's & Tzeentch Daemons took a completely unnecessary nerf batting,  and for a good number of people,  it's all but destroyed their main enjoyment of why you'd choose such a uniquely niche force.

 

What rule is this?  I've been out of the loop since for the last couple of months and haven't had the chance to really get into 8th Edition yet.

 

"Rule of One" - in Matched Play you can only attempt each psychic power once across the entire army, aside from Smite.  So you can't have two sorcerers both cast Warp Time, for example.

 

 

I can see the point of this: It'll prevent the spamming of the more powerful (or broken) powers and keep things interesting.  The Aspiring Sorcerers can only cast 'Diet Smite' anyway.

 

Important to mention tho is that Smite is the exception of the rule of one.

[OnboardG1]

I love the models. I might have to buy a few to be indentured to my warband leader.