FW index available to purchase/download

[Kol Saresk]

It's also worth pointing out this discussion arose at the sneak peek of the Hellforged Leviathan Dreadnought.

[Subtle Discord]

Hah! The Kytan makes me giggle. 5 Attacks. Starting strength of 10. No loss on WS or BS as it degrades (loses M, S, and A). Great Cleaver of Khorne; Smash = Sx2, -4 AP, 6 Damage, (Ouch!) or Slash = S-User, -2 AP, D3 Damage, 3 to-hit rolls for each attack. Good for whatever ails you.

 

Edit: Accuracy

Edited June 17, 2017 by Subtle Discord

[Gordon Shumway]

IMO you can only replace one claw with a gun, given that it says one or both for other upgrade options.

I think it is worded that way because of the built in guns on the claws as you don't have to change out the guns with those. The Leviathon has similar wording.

[Khornestar]

I'd prefer to be wrong, for sure, and easily could be.

[Sception]

No dual dakka on the contemptor.  The distinction between may replace 'one or both' vs. may replace 'one' is very clear in its option list.

[Plaguecaster]

I'm a bit curious on what the tainted keyword Necrosius has and if or how it can be given to other stuff (does anything (does anything apart from Manom have it. Also if it is a Vectorium or splinter faction of Deathguard FW got it wrong as Necrosius was from the apostles of contagion not the Tainted

[adreal]

Sicaran is also elite in my copy of the book, so for real tread heads you could go 3 sicarans and 3 preds ;)

[Hathor42]

Decimator! Please Edited June 18, 2017 by Hathor42

[NoLifeKing]

How exactly does the Hellforged Dreadclaw function? how is it different from dem loyalist drop pods?

[Sception]

Decimator: think better helbrute.  Same power rating, similar points cost, better movement, strength, attacks, is daemonic, 5++, heals a wound a turn, unlike the contemptor it can dual dakka if you want.  The melee weapons aren't quite as impressive as those of a helbrute, but the better base stats even it out somewhat.  The guns, however, are more impressive, with a choice of butcher cannon, conversion beamer, or soulburner petard (2d3 shots, each hit inflicts a mortal wound, but the decimator takes a single mortal if it rolls one or more ones to hit.  It's unclear if double petards can cause one mortal to the decimator per gun, or just one total, I'm leaning towards one per gun, but even at the cost of inflicting two wounds on yourself a turn, 4d3 shots, hitting on 3s, and dealing a mortal wound for each hit, is mighty impressive.  Not sure if that's better than the alternatives or not, and the range is then only 24", which is an issue since it can't deep strike anymore.

 

It's also very much a CSM thing now.  faction keywords Chaos, Heretic Astartes, <Mark of Chaos>, and <Legion>.  It has the daemon keyword, but not as a faction.

 

 

Dreadclaw can either be deployed normally as a fast skimmer transport, or can be reserved, along with whatever units it's carrying, in which case it deep strikes following the usual rules, then immediately forces its passengers to disembark (while remaining >9" from the enemy).  Afterwords, the dreadclaw continues to behave normally, can move, etc.  Offensively it has a low strength short range flamer pistol that can hit multiple units (including friendlies) and a handful of better-than-usual-for-a-transport melee attacks.  Is pretty pricey - 200 points / 10 power rating.  I'm not convinced it's worth that, but I don't hate it either.  Time will judge.

[NoLifeKing]

Decimator: think better helbrute.  Same power rating, similar points cost, better movement, strength, attacks, is daemonic, 5++, heals a wound a turn, unlike the contemptor it can dual dakka if you want.  The melee weapons aren't quite as impressive as those of a helbrute, but the better base stats even it out somewhat.  The guns, however, are more impressive, with a choice of butcher cannon, conversion beamer, or soulburner petard (2d3 shots, each hit inflicts a mortal wound, but the decimator takes a single mortal if it rolls one or more ones to hit.  It's unclear if double petards can cause one mortal to the decimator per gun, or just one total, I'm leaning towards one per gun, but even at the cost of inflicting two wounds on yourself a turn, 4d3 shots, hitting on 3s, and dealing a mortal wound for each hit, is mighty impressive.  Not sure if that's better than the alternatives or not, and the range is then only 24", which is an issue since it can't deep strike anymore.

 

It's also very much a CSM thing now.  faction keywords Chaos, Heretic Astartes, <Mark of Chaos>, and <Legion>.  It has the daemon keyword, but not as a faction.

 

 

Dreadclaw can either be deployed normally as a fast skimmer transport, or can be reserved, along with whatever units it's carrying, in which case it deep strikes following the usual rules, then immediately forces its passengers to disembark (while remaining >9" from the enemy).  Afterwords, the dreadclaw continues to behave normally, can move, etc.  Offensively it has a low strength short range flamer pistol that can hit multiple units (including friendlies) and a handful of better-than-usual-for-a-transport melee attacks.  Is pretty pricey - 200 points / 10 power rating.  I'm not convinced it's worth that, but I don't hate it either.  Time will judge.

Thanks for your reply

[Marshal Loss]

Decimator sounds awesome, really hoping FW FAQ it to allow me to use one with my DG.

[Sception]

Yeah, the DG/TS thing is pretty annoying and the fallout is already a mess.  A list of what units they can't take would have achieved much the same end without requiring nearly so much follow-up work to make things compatible.

[Shinespider]

It feels like a lack of communication between the teams that the FW writers didn't account for the limitations in the core index. Hopefully an addendum/faq/whatever will clear things up. 

 

Oh, and Dark Mechanicum is now a legit tag, which is cool. The Hellwright has it, as do all of the Renegade Knights. 

[Brother Aiwass]

Decimator: think better helbrute.  Same power rating, similar points cost, better movement, strength, attacks, is daemonic, 5++, heals a wound a turn, unlike the contemptor it can dual dakka if you want.  The melee weapons aren't quite as impressive as those of a helbrute, but the better base stats even it out somewhat.  The guns, however, are more impressive, with a choice of butcher cannon, conversion beamer, or soulburner petard (2d3 shots, each hit inflicts a mortal wound, but the decimator takes a single mortal if it rolls one or more ones to hit.  It's unclear if double petards can cause one mortal to the decimator per gun, or just one total, I'm leaning towards one per gun, but even at the cost of inflicting two wounds on yourself a turn, 4d3 shots, hitting on 3s, and dealing a mortal wound for each hit, is mighty impressive. 

It states that the "effect can only occur once per phase regardless of how many "1" are rolled". Looks clear to me that you only take 1 MW when firing the double petard thing.

[Aeternus]

Fire raptors can also now change out their missiles for two twin lascannons, if you feel inclined to load up with 4 lascannon shots, 24 HB shots, and 10 Avenger shots. Feel a bit miffed about the loss of BS5, but weight of fire will hopefully make up for it. 

[Sonoftherubric21]

I will be discussing with my local gaming group regarding my army being SCREWED for no reason other then FW forgot to add an exception for them. 

It makes NO sense (THEY HAVE CONTEMPTOR MODELS EVEN!)  Pardon my annoyance, but ill be house-ruling that till FW gives an answer one way or the other (which id obviously except regardless of outcome, though its incredibly stupid if we don't get it) 

 

And id allow any TS / DG player to do the same. 

[Kol Saresk]

What says the Contemptor cannot be taken by KSons?

[Heliomanes]

The GW chaos index has rules saying "only things in the following list can be Death Guard or Thousand Sons". Since the FW book doesn't mention and contradict this specifically, it means that nothing in their book can have Thousand Sons or Death Guard as their Legion rule. All in all its dumb rulewriting from GW combined with what seems like an oversight or lack of communication on FWs part.

[the jeske]

 

Decimator: think better helbrute.  Same power rating, similar points cost, better movement, strength, attacks, is daemonic, 5++, heals a wound a turn, unlike the contemptor it can dual dakka if you want.  The melee weapons aren't quite as impressive as those of a helbrute, but the better base stats even it out somewhat.  The guns, however, are more impressive, with a choice of butcher cannon, conversion beamer, or soulburner petard (2d3 shots, each hit inflicts a mortal wound, but the decimator takes a single mortal if it rolls one or more ones to hit.  It's unclear if double petards can cause one mortal to the decimator per gun, or just one total, I'm leaning towards one per gun, but even at the cost of inflicting two wounds on yourself a turn, 4d3 shots, hitting on 3s, and dealing a mortal wound for each hit, is mighty impressive. 

It states that the "effect can only occur once per phase regardless of how many "1" are rolled". Looks clear to me that you only take 1 MW when firing the double petard thing.

 

but isn't it regardless of how many 1s you roll for a single petard? If you take two plasma weapons and fire, thenrolling a 1 on puts wounds on a plasma sponson LR for each sponson. Dont have rules with me right now, but if I remember correctly we are firing each weapon separate and resolving each one separate.

[Atia]

The GW chaos index has rules saying "only things in the following list can be Death Guard or Thousand Sons". Since the FW book doesn't mention and contradict this specifically, it means that nothing in their book can have Thousand Sons or Death Guard as their Legion rule. All in all its dumb rulewriting from GW combined with what seems like an oversight or lack of communication on FWs part.

Tbh I would just ignore the GW rules on that part. Same with the limitations to Blood Angels/Dark Angels/Space Wolves regarding hunter tanks or Storm Talons.

[Kol Saresk]

 

 

The GW chaos index has rules saying "only things in the following list can be Death Guard or Thousand Sons". Since the FW book doesn't mention and contradict this specifically, it means that nothing in their book can have Thousand Sons or Death Guard as their Legion rule. All in all its dumb rulewriting from GW combined with what seems like an oversight or lack of communication on FWs part.

Tbh I would just ignore the GW rules on that part. Same with the limitations to Blood Angels/Dark Angels/Space Wolves regarding hunter tanks or Storm Talons.

Same. Unless FW says FW units are restricted, assume they aren't.

[Sception]

 

Decimator: think better helbrute.  Same power rating, similar points cost, better movement, strength, attacks, is daemonic, 5++, heals a wound a turn, unlike the contemptor it can dual dakka if you want.  The melee weapons aren't quite as impressive as those of a helbrute, but the better base stats even it out somewhat.  The guns, however, are more impressive, with a choice of butcher cannon, conversion beamer, or soulburner petard (2d3 shots, each hit inflicts a mortal wound, but the decimator takes a single mortal if it rolls one or more ones to hit.  It's unclear if double petards can cause one mortal to the decimator per gun, or just one total, I'm leaning towards one per gun, but even at the cost of inflicting two wounds on yourself a turn, 4d3 shots, hitting on 3s, and dealing a mortal wound for each hit, is mighty impressive. 

It states that the "effect can only occur once per phase regardless of how many "1" are rolled". Looks clear to me that you only take 1 MW when firing the double petard thing.

 

 

It really isn't clear though, since there are multiple shots, so the test of 'regardless of how many ones are rolled' isn't clear whether it's only referring to multiple ones from the same gun, or whether it would include ones rolled on a separate gun.  In order for it to be clear, it would have had to specify the case of multiple pertards firing as well.  With two guns, there are two instances of the effect, potentially each instance could occur once per phase.  I would prefer otherwise, and the text could certainly be read otherwise, but whenever something isn't completely clear - and this isn't completely clear - I'm inclined to default to the less good interpretation, in order to avoid arguments with opponents and the possibility of FAQs making my units worse.

[Raven1]

Same. Unless FW says FW units are restricted, assume they aren't.

I would assume that's true, but the book has you reference the GW book, and GW restricts so it very easy, however stupid, DG and TS are precluded from the book. I emailed FW I'm assuming im not the only one and we will get an answer soon.

[Gordon Shumway]

What says the Contemptor cannot be taken by KSons?

They can be. As they can be taken by DG armies. They just can't be marked with the faction keyword, and thus, benefit from certain auras. Honestly, I don't get why people are getting so worked up about this.