New Issodon Rules - Sneaky Peaky

[Mr. Poe]

For his cost I'd say he's fine. I do agree that Master of Ambush could be subject to abuse.

[MajorNese]

He may be pretty good, but let's not forget he's considerably more costly than most characters. Master of Ambush is good, but doesn't scale. On small games, it's most of the army, on bigger matches it's just a fraction of the army.

[The Yak]

A fraction of the army is all we need Bro. Give me 30 good Raptors and I'll close the eye of terror!

[Hfran Morkai]

He sounds pretty awesome. However I doubt I'd use him very often as it seems unlikely he'd be rolling with my currently undecided Battle Company (to be partaking in a Hunter Killer campaign somewhere to be decided).

[Mr. Poe]

I'm going to model him he's just too nice.

 

With the way the faction Keywords are set up in this edition it would be easy to include him in a force. We don't know the chapter tactics yet so this could be wrong but: What stoping you from running Issodon with a few units of <Raptors> and then Shrikee with a few units of <Raven Guard>? The shared keyword would be Imperium. 

 

I would love to include both Raptors and Raven Guard units in my Night Claws force. It was a little tricky in 7th but now in 8th it seems to work out well.

[Nusquam]

I made a new Issodon (Center) because I'm so pumped for his rules. I'm sad that I can't infiltrate Hellblasters. Primaris stuff, for all the talk of total integration into the chapters, really don't synergize with any transport(A Mastadon can't hold a single Primaris marine? Really? But Dreads can walk in and out? What a blatant "Buy Primaris Transports" scheme) or a lot of abilities.

 

Also Lias moves 8", aura abilities affect the producer too.

 

He's good at everything and I love it. Still no invul matching his fluff of not liking field generators giving himself away.

 

Grim Hunter keeps him from being bogged down, and Malice being Assault 3 keeps him moving 9+d6" a turn and shooting. He and Inceptors seem like a good combo to keep mobile firepower. They move 10" so Lias can keep up with them very well and they reroll all misses near him.

 

Master of Ambush is amazing. You can cut pods out of the picture and save hundreds of points. Devs and Stern are the obvious go-tos for his ability; they pack the bite needed to capitalize on a full alpha strike.

 

A psuedo-formation I'm considering:

• 1x10 VV all with SS and a mix of Plasma pistols and power weapons, no packs. They will be Issodons body-guard. An alternate would be Company Vets with the same ratios in case I predict Vindicares.
• 2x10 Stern with mostly SIBs and 2 plasma guns each with a beefy Sarge.

 

They all "Ambush" in a spearhead and overwhelm a key point on the field.VV are for counter-charging. They screen for Issodon and use power weapons/pistols to to prevent from getting bogged down in CC. I also keep forgetting to use pistols when locked in combat in my turn.

 

I want a Falchion, him, and a Primaris LT, to one-shot Magnus and Wraithknights. That plus a Void Shield is over 1k points though ha. A lesser version would be three laser-vindis, of which are super cheap for being so potent. Rerolling all hits and 1's to wound would make a nasty firebase. Overcharging them would be less risky because of Issodon and more effective.

[Rabidbunneh]

I'm glad I got my conversion for Issodon sorted last week. I'm thinking of infiltrating some Vanguard Veterans and 20 Tacs up with him, giving me an advanced fire base to cover my army advancing. Coupled with some Inceptors dropping in, 20 Devastators and 5 NuMarines firing at range with 30 Tacs advancing up with a Chaplain in the mix, I think i'll have a lot of fun.

[Nusquam]

Theory crafting some more Issodon synergies...

 

He can keep up with Predator Tanks and the like. I double checked the wording on Advancing, it combines into the move and functions as the whole move, so he moves 8+d6" as opposed to to (7+1)+(d6+1)". That's still minimum of 9" and average of 11-12". That would give tank squadrons rerolls to hit so the heavy penalty isn't as bad. Plus your opponent, with clever positioning on your part, would have to burn through multiple preds to shoot at Issodon. Include Inceptors for more dakka/scoring and you have quite the mobile firebase.

[defl0]

I'm not sold on using the master of ambush for assaults. 

 

What do you think the bes shooty units are for master of ambush?

[MajorNese]

First of all, devastators come to mind. 4 multi meltas landing in <12" of an enemy biggie, rerolling to hit (their 4+ would have been risky otherwise) and increasing damage by short range to avoid wasting lots of CP rerolls there. Anything shooty power-armoured with a 12" range/double tap range does too...a tac squad, multi melta + plasma/melta gun + combi plasma/melta can suddenly dish out a lot of firepower, despite being cheap and filling troops slots for more CP. Sternguard with lots of combi weapons (their special issue bolters are not worth it, compared to intercessors) rerolling to hit will do quite a bit too.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Plasma command squads

 

Also note that he has an 8" move because he buffs himself

[Jacques Corbin]

Nah, ambush with 3 squads of Multimelta Devastators. :cuss you, now footslog.

 

Also, wonder if they will get to pick a unit to benefit from Legendary Marksmen for 1CP?

Edited August 8, 2017 by Jacques Corbin

[SkimaskMohawk]

Plasma command is far better than multimeltas in most situations. 50 points less for double the shots at the same strength on overcharge.

[ddarz]

Melts Devs are pricy, but have the edge (D6-Take Highest) to take out vehicles and monsters

 

Plasma is very good in 8th, but it is hampered by its low damage, even when supercharged - which in my experience turns the attention of the dice gods your way, every damn time.

 

It's why I think the primaris hellblasters are no good as opposed to a 170pt Lascannon dev team. Nothing beats STR 9 that wounds on 3s and does D6 wounds from 48" away.

 

Still, while I think MultiMelta Devs are the most effective choice to nuke something, it does quite power-gamey to do so

[SkimaskMohawk]

They have have the edge in single target damage, but plasma still forces about 6 wounds through compared to the ~3 that multimeltas get (assuming issodon and a LT nearby) against T 5-7 3+. They both kill that rhino, whirlwind or pred.

 

The difference is that multimeltas suck against larger squads, especially if theyre multi - wound. And then you get more attacks, LD, and the ability to tank wounds, for 50 points less

[Race Bannon]

Well, I'd rather not use Multi-meltas against large squads ... that's not what they are meant for :P

[Marwynn]

Do Raptors still get to use the Raven Guard chapter tactics? 

[Reviler]

Yes to raptors getting raven guard tactics

[Alcyon]

Sternguard with lots of combi weapons (their special issue bolters are not worth it, compared to intercessors)

This caught my eye and prompted me to do a quick comparison. Just going off the Index but Sternguard are 16pts each plus 3 for their special issue Boltgun = 19pts, vs. the Intercessors 20 with a free Bolt Rifle. So Sternguard get +1 Ld, +1 AP and the ability to use that +1 to wound stratagem at the cost of 1 wound and 1 pt per model. 10 Sternguard bolters with the stratagem will do 5.93 wounds to MEQ after saves vs. 3.33 for Intercessors for 10 more pts and 1 CP. Vs. GEQ the same math gives you 11.11 with Sternguard vs. 7.41 wounds with Intercessors, though either way the unit will probably break without a commissar. Sternguard with the stratagem do almost double the damage vs. T7 vehicles (from 3.7 to 6.67) but CP are going to be tough to save vs. SftS. Thanks for alerting me to this; I wonder if this means Sternguard are pretty much an exclusively Imperial Fists choice or if you need to use a Drop Pod.

 

Personally I wouldn't run Sternguard with combi-weapons or Devastators with Multi-Meltas, both lose out on the 12" -1 to hit CT if they get into optimal range, and the latter are pretty useless unless they get within that. Lias' ability and SftS are the only ways to get Primaris units up-field quickly outside of a Repulsor, and so I'd say both Aggressors and Hellblasters are good choices here. The Hellblasters IMO are better than Lascannon Devastators in most cases simply due to the weight of shots; 4 Lascannons is going to do 14 wounds on avg. vs. 20 wounds for an overcharged unit of 5 Hellblasters rapidfiring, and it's less vulnerable to getting unlucky with the dmg rolls or Necron quantum shielding ;) Like SkimaskMohawk said, there is a big benefit to being able to use your A/T unit against TEQ as well, that flexibility is a major bonus.

 

Outside Primaris I would say Grav-Cannon Devastators are a very good option as well. Looking at that 8th edition weapons chart, you can see that the 4 shots makes them actually better than Lascannons vs. T7 3+ save vehicles, and they can do almost as well as Multi-Meltas no matter the range. Plus, they also outshine Plasma Guns everywhere but vs. T5/T6 models and only when overcharged, so you can use them against MEQ or Monsters just as well. I dunno if Lias' ability makes them count as moving on the turn they come on, but they seem like the no-brainer option to me. It's tight vs. Grav Centurions but I would say those are so expensive now and their extra wound and toughness won't help them much against anything but small-arms fire. 

[SkimaskMohawk]

Well, I'd rather not use Multi-meltas against large squads ... that's not what they are meant for

 

Right, but when it comes to list building, usually the weapon thats effective against more targets and performs comparably up until very specific situations wins out from a take all comers stand point. If your buddy is spamming Land Raiders, then sure take the devs, but if you're using SftS instead of Issodon's deepstrike, you might as well save another 30 points and make them a melta command squad

[MajorNese]

 

Lias' ability and SftS are the only ways to get Primaris units up-field quickly outside of a Repulsor, and so I'd say both Aggressors and Hellblasters are good choices here.

 

Lias' ability doesn't work for primaris, terminators or centurions. Only power/recon armour is sneakable, otherwise it would have been too hardcore, and would replace 3 of those shiny new expensive repulsors...

[Race Bannon]

 

 

Well, I'd rather not use Multi-meltas against large squads ... that's not what they are meant for

Right, but when it comes to list building, usually the weapon thats effective against more targets and performs comparably up until very specific situations wins out from a take all comers stand point. If your buddy is spamming Land Raiders, then sure take the devs, but if you're using SftS instead of Issodon's deepstrike, you might as well save another 30 points and make them a melta command squad

AH, my bad. I do not build all-comer lists :blush:

[Alcyon]

 

Lias' ability doesn't work for primaris, terminators or centurions. Only power/recon armour is sneakable, otherwise it would have been too hardcore, and would replace 3 of those shiny new expensive repulsors...

Ooh, that's unfortunate, didn't notice that. Yeah, then it'd just be Grav Devastators and Sternguard, unfortunate; Lias' ability is really outshined by SftS in that case.

[Firenze]

 

 

Lias' ability doesn't work for primaris, terminators or centurions. Only power/recon armour is sneakable, otherwise it would have been too hardcore, and would replace 3 of those shiny new expensive repulsors...

Ooh, that's unfortunate, didn't notice that. Yeah, then it'd just be Grav Devastators and Sternguard, unfortunate; Lias' ability is really outshined by SftS in that case.

 

Use it in combination with it. Issadon's ability would be great for getting units onto objectives in a timely fashion, and stealing them from an enemy. SftS is good for getting a heavy hitter right in the enemies face to rip and tear.

[Atomsk the Pragmatist]

rip and tear is good, but I picture more of a "Omae Wa Mou Shindeiru"