FW Index Astartes

[Polak]

Good news everyone,

 

Just got my index from FW and we have no more restrictions on what we can take! It seems every unit in the index that has the <Chapter> blank keyword can be filled out with DW. There is no restriction list for any chapters.

 

So for now we should be able to fix some of our weaknesses through FW stuff.

[shandwen]

Looks like my Sicarian Venarator will get some ]['s.

[Ordo Xenos Inquisitor]

Seriously? Any chapter can take anything from the FW Index?

 

Does the book explicitly say that? Upon looking at some sheets and requirements-wise, they don't look too different. Though I always wanted to bring in a Fellblade or a Land Raider Prometheus. :D

Edited June 17, 2017 by Ordo Xenos Inquisitor

[Anarnii]

If so this is fantastic, can any one confirm the dread load out options?

[Nyx of the Night]

Don't want to be the negative one, but unless something I am missing in the FW book overrides it, the Deathwatch section of Imperium 1 specifically dictates what Space Marine datasheets can have be from the Deathwatch.  It says unless a datasheet is on the list below, it can not have the Deathwatch "chapter."

[Ordo Xenos Inquisitor]

Games Workshop doesn't always factor ForgeWorld stuff, right? I suppose it's fine for the most part on various vehicles. Though some like the Lords of War, can be fielded on their own as an Auxiliary Detachment (Fellblade) 

[mjrwaud]

Don't want to be the negative one, but unless something I am missing in the FW book overrides it, the Deathwatch section of Imperium 1 specifically dictates what Space Marine datasheets can have be from the Deathwatch.  It says unless a datasheet is on the list below, it can not have the Deathwatch "chapter."

 

Forge World units are not covered in  Imperium 1,2 etc. at all for any army (aside from a few Warhammer world exclusives like the Rhino Primaris), therefore it would seem that the restricted list in the Deathwatch section also does not cover Forge World units in either a positive or negative way. Given that, I would go with the permissions listed in the Forge World Index... ie. allowing the use of those units.

[Ordo Xenos Inquisitor]

The only exception would be the Grey Knights as they have their own vehicles to field. 

[Mobius0288]

FW stuff was always meant to be a supplement to 40k stuff. I would agree with regard to FW permissions. If it says any adeptus astartes chapter, you should be good. But even if you can't take a Fellblade as a Deathwatch unit (or your opponent hates FW?), you still have two options to load up your Fellblade: Auxiliary Detachment or Super Heavy Detachment. Again, it won't have the DW keyword but still valid.

 

Like for me I've got a Leviathan Dreadnaught I plan to take through the Auxiliary Detachment. Sadly, it's gonna cost a CP.

 

This should be similar to ALL other armies, unless the FW datasheets say they can replace specific models (like the Angels of Death supplement did with Contemptor Dreadnaughts and Cataphractii's).

 

Still waiting for my index to come in 

[Ordo Xenos Inquisitor]

Heh, you and me both. I live far away from the West so delivery is gonna take much longer.

[Xenith]

FW rules are a supplement to, but do not supercede GW models rules (same company).

 

Unless the FW index specifically states that DW can take certain models, then you have to stick with the list of what DW can take, which is found in their index. Same for BA, DA, SW etc.

[Mobius0288]

I see the couple of sentences in the imperial index that justify your answer, but I will wait for my FW index. Haha its pretty much gonna determine what color I paint my FW things.

 

By that same logic, looks like Dark Angles, Spacewolves and Blood Angels are also out on the FW stuff. It's got the same wording.

 

Hope the FW index says we can take something.

[shandwen]

Just remember that the relic rule means you basically cannot take any LOW, and an auxiliary detachment cannot take relics... wonderful train wreck of a rule.

[Polak]

FW rules are a supplement to, but do not supercede GW models rules (same company).

 

Unless the FW index specifically states that DW can take certain models, then you have to stick with the list of what DW can take, which is found in their index. Same for BA, DA, SW etc.

 

By that logic it means that neither Blood angels, dark angels, space wolves etc can take any stuff from FW either cause there is no mention of any FW units in the restrictions list in Index Imp 1 of what they can take outside their section. That would make the whole FW index quite pointless now?

 

Also I talked with some FW guys on saturday, and they simply said I should be happy with the FW index as a DW player. (talked with them before I had the index in my hands) So I'll still go with using any <chapter> stuff from the FW index and giving it the Death Watch keyword, maybe the restrictions will come in the future when there will be a Death Watch Codex....until then I'm just gonna enjoy a deredeo!

[Ordo Xenos Inquisitor]

Citadel books hardly factor in ForgeWorld stuff. And I am glad for it. Some of them do look like they'll fill in the gaps I need for heavy firepower. And I have been having my eye on that Fellblade for some time. :D

[Irbis]

 

FW rules are a supplement to, but do not supercede GW models rules (same company).

 

Unless the FW index specifically states that DW can take certain models, then you have to stick with the list of what DW can take, which is found in their index. Same for BA, DA, SW etc.

 

By that logic it means that neither Blood angels, dark angels, space wolves etc can take any stuff from FW either cause there is no mention of any FW units in the restrictions list in Index Imp 1 of what they can take outside their section. That would make the whole FW index quite pointless now?

 

To be fair - a lot of these units were Codex:Space Marines in 7th, and BA/DA/etc really couldn't take them...

 

Also, if you talked to FW guys, did you ask them what that DW tease pic on their site they never bothered to deliver on was about?

[Mobius0288]

So some justifications if you have to convince your opponents... I realize it says you can't take anything because of the wording, but you could argue that the imperial index only accounts for models within that imperial codex and not the FW supplement.

[Ordo Xenos Inquisitor]

Exactly. I don't see any problems with it at all when bringing them in. ForgeWorld stuff is fair game to all applicable chapters, imo. 

[Anarnii]

How does graviton work in 8th (thinking of at least one doible fist contemptor with graviton guns if it's an option like in 30k)

[Mobius0288]

The Leviatian dreadnaught and adeptus mechanicus imperial knight of something similar too. Not sure since I don't have my book, but I imagine it would have increased Str and Dmg with the same mechanics as the imperial 1 index.

[sockwithaticket]

Uh, so Ishagu just dropped this in one of the BA sub-forum threads:
 

A friend of mine asked this exact thing, and FW have responded.

They say the Adeptus Astartes units and relics in the FW book are available to all Marine Chapters except Grey Knights and Death Watch.

The emphasis is mine, but I gotta say that if that's true it's incredibly disappointing. Admittedly it doesn't say what isn't available to the DW, hopefully it'd just be preds and stuff that they can't get the regular version of. As someone who has started building a Mortis heavy bolter Dread and already painted up a quad heavy bolter Rapier I'll be more than a little put out.

Has anyone heard from FW yet?

[Bronze Beast in the Dark]

I emailed them and have heard nothing. Work has gone crazy on me and I haven't had time to really check but I'm going to email them again soon if I haven't gotten a response. Edited June 21, 2017 by Ashriel

[Kargrym]

From the book:

 

Welcome to Imperial Armour – Index: Forces of the Adeptus Astartes. This book is designed to update the rules for Forge World’s current and recent ranges of models for use with the latest incarnation of the Warhammer 40,000 game. Inside you will find rules for Forge World’s Space Marines, Grey Knights, Inquisition and Sisters of Battle units, including ancient relics from the age of the Horus Heresy for your Adeptus Astartes forces, as well as revisiting characters from Forge World’s Badab Wars campaign.

This book and its contents are fully compatible with Warhammer 40,000 – Index: Imperium 1 and Warhammer 40,000 – Index: Imperium 2, expanding on the range of datasheets to be found there and contain all the information which you will need to field your Forge World models in the new edition of the Warhammer 40,000 game. Also included are both Power Ratings and an appendix for their use in Battle-forged armies.

You will need copies of the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook, Warhammer 40,000 – Index: Imperium 1 and Warhammer 40,000 – Index: Imperium 2 to make full use of this book and its contents. 

 

 

Now, Lets use another chapter as an example. Can Grey Knights use a Land Raider Helios, then Deathwatch can.  there are a few Grey Knight specific items in the book, but does that preclude them from all items in the book?

 

Right now, we effectively are all playing effectively Battle Forged Imperium, so it doesn't matter until our Codex comes out. I wish they would have added CP, the mode faction keywords you share, then playing Deathwatch only would add a few extra.

[mjrwaud]

Just received my copy as well, and it's fairly light on faction details but in the end it really comes down to those magic "keywords", at least until codices are released.

 

As of now,

 

Worst case scenario = Forgworld items share keyword "Imperium" and "Adeptus Astartes" with "Deathwatch" units and may therefore be chosen and placed in detachments sharing that keyword, thus granting the indicated number of command points... but rules and aura type abilities specific to keyword "Deathwatch" (ie. Watch Master / Captain re-rolls...) would not apply to those units.

 

Best case scenario = Forgeworld items may be granted keyword "Deathwatch" in place of "<Chapter>" and may therefore be chosen and place in detatchments with that keyword, thus granting the indicated number of command points and benefiting from abilities specific to keyword "Deathwatch".

 

Either way, it certainly seems fine to use any/all of the Forgeworld units with either "Imperium" or more stringently "Adeptus Astartes", the only difference being whether abilites may affect those units or not... 

[CrimsonReign]

from the chaos side of the forum - Dguard and 1ksons have (exactly) the same issue in the forgeworld index - and FW have responded saying it was an oversight in the rules that will be amended in the future