So what do the BA players think of the Relic Contemptor?

[Jolemai]

Unfortunately I'm in the camp of bad rules writing. If the FW doesn't nsay that Blood Angels can take the unit, then they can't. Permissive ruleset and all.

 

BA section of Index 1 is very clear about the list of stuff that can be <CHAPTER BLOOD ANGELS> and FW units aren't on there.

 

We can still use them, just not as BLOOD ANGELS, same as stormtalons, hawks, hunters etc.

Wrt paragraph two, FW stuff will never appear in the GW books so of course they aren't on that list. Ergo, apply common sense to any discrepancies.

 

Wrt paragraph three, BA rules offer very little to vehicles anyway so this isn't a problem - unless there's one caused from taking non-BA stuff in Detachments that i've missed?

[Cleon]

 

Unfortunately I'm in the camp of bad rules writing. If the FW doesn't nsay that Blood Angels can take the unit, then they can't. Permissive ruleset and all.

 

BA section of Index 1 is very clear about the list of stuff that can be <CHAPTER BLOOD ANGELS> and FW units aren't on there.

 

We can still use them, just not as BLOOD ANGELS, same as stormtalons, hawks, hunters etc.

Wrt paragraph two, FW stuff will never appear in the GW books so of course they aren't on that list. Ergo, apply common sense to any discrepancies.

 

Wrt paragraph three, BA rules offer very little to vehicles anyway so this isn't a problem - unless there's one caused from taking non-BA stuff in Detachments that i've missed?

 

 

The main issues as i see it are you wouldn't be able to give it re-rolls from captain bubbles, or a 4++ from our shield power. Along with not being able to use any transport capacity (unless you take similarly 'chaptered' non BA troops) and you can't fix it with a BA Techmarine.

[Xenith]

 

Wrt paragraph two, FW stuff will never appear in the GW books so of course they aren't on that list. Ergo, apply common sense to any discrepancies.

 

Wrt paragraph three, BA rules offer very little to vehicles anyway so this isn't a problem - unless there's one caused from taking non-BA stuff in Detachments that i've missed?

 

 

Previously for units that were supplemental to other books, FW listed which armies could take them.

 

Technically, we can take these units as they share the imperium keyword, but until they state that these units are eligible to have the CHAPTER BLOOD ANGELS keyword, then they cannot have it, as per precedent.

 

Painful RAW I know, and I disagree with it, but since BA were denied centurians, talons, hawks, and previously the normal FW contemptor (We could only take the Blood Angels Contemptor), common sense says these denials are still in place.

[Blindhamster]

Anyone bothered to ask FW?

 

they specifically said blood angels would have more options in the seminar at fest iirc.

 

I'm in the camp that believes everyone gets it all.

[Arkangilos]

 

 

Wrt paragraph two, FW stuff will never appear in the GW books so of course they aren't on that list. Ergo, apply common sense to any discrepancies.

 

Wrt paragraph three, BA rules offer very little to vehicles anyway so this isn't a problem - unless there's one caused from taking non-BA stuff in Detachments that i've missed?

 

Previously for units that were supplemental to other books, FW listed which armies could take them.

 

Technically, we can take these units as they share the imperium keyword, but until they state that these units are eligible to have the CHAPTER BLOOD ANGELS keyword, then they cannot have it, as per precedent.

 

Painful RAW I know, and I disagree with it, but since BA were denied centurians, talons, hawks, and previously the normal FW contemptor (We could only take the Blood Angels Contemptor), common sense says these denials are still in place.

Doesn't the index also say which units to space marines could take? As in they have a list similar to the BA that has all of their units listed? By the logic you're using they wouldn't be able to list it either because FW units aren't on that list.

[Arkangilos]

Honestly I hate people that think like that.

[Kyrne]

Nah clearly get all units.

[Xenith]

 

Doesn't the index also say which units to space marines could take? As in they have a list similar to the BA that has all of their units listed? By the logic you're using they wouldn't be able to list it either because FW units aren't on that list.

 

Nope. Naturally, codex marines can take all codex marine choices.

 

The rules for "Adeptus Astartes" datasheets, are that you can replace the <CHAPTER> keyword with the chapter of your choice. This applies to forge world things, as they are adeptus astartes datasheets.

 

Unfortunately, the Blood Angels section gives a very specific list of adeptus astartes datasheets that can have the keyword "BLOOD ANGELS" and the forgeworld adeptus astartes datasheets are not among those.

 

TBH this might be all for nothing, and there might be a quarter page in the FW index saying "datasheets x, y and z may have keyword BLOOD ANGELS" or similar.

 

Until then, it's a case of you can take it in your army, but it cannot have keyword BLOOD ANGELS, RAW. 

 

I mean, I would never play it that way, but you are choosing to ignore the list of what BA can and cannot keyword - might as well take centurians too.

 

We cannot just assume that a new release, or old released models will be allowed to Blood Angels. Look at the Stormhawk. Easy opportunity missed. Same with cataphractii, and so on. 

 

BA weren't allowed contemptor dreads to begin with, they were codex and DA only I think. We finally got them in Imperial Armour Apocalypse vol2 second edition or whatever it was where they made specific BA and SW dreads.

Edited June 18, 2017 by Xenith

[Arkhanist]

Someone asked forgeworld about the chaos FW book which has the same problem as us - i.e. named traitor legions (death guard etc) have a restricted list of allowed datasheets  in their GW index book which doesn't include any FW ones.

 

"Units in Imperial Armour - Index: Forces of Chaos with the <legion> keyword follow the rules for using the <legion> keyword presented in Index: Chaos, and units with the <mark of chaos> keyword follow the rules for using the <mark of chaos> keyword also presented in Index: Chaos.

 

In addition, all units in Imperial Armour - Index: Forces of Chaos with the <legion> keyword are added to the lists of available datasheets for World Eaters, Thousand Sons, Death Guard, and Emperors Children. This will be updated in future publications."

 

Logically the same applies to us non-codex chapters, and the ebooks should get updated to explicitly allow us full or near full access to FW models RAW.

Edited June 21, 2017 by Arkhanist

[Ishagu]

A friend of mine asked this exact thing, and FW have responded.

 

They say the Adeptus Astartes units and relics in the FW book are available to all Marine Chapters except Grey Knights and Death Watch.

[Charlo]

Noice.

[The4thHorseman]

Did anyone ask about the actual Relic Rule and how it is terrible for LOW? Also about the Damoclese Command Rhino Orbital Strike Augur rule and how it has an extra D6 roll?

[Xenith]

Great news.