Weird, but possibly potent Black Knight combination?

[Elios Harg]

This is in light of the new designer's commentary: https://17890-presscdn-0-51-pagely.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Warhammer_40000_Designers_Commentary-ENG.pdf

 

"Q: When making a hit roll with a supercharged plasma weapon, do you determine whether a ‘1’ was rolled before or after applying re-rolls and modifiers? A: You apply all re-rolls and modifiers first. For example, if, after re-rolls and modifiers, the final result is then a 1 (or counts as a 1, as explained above), then the supercharged plasma weapon injures or kills the firer."

 

It seems anything with a +1 to hit is a good combination with plasma as you can super charge with impunity. Thus, a Rhino Primaris following a unit of 10 Ravenwing Black Knights seems like a pretty potent combination (especially with Sammael also near). This allows the Black Knights to fire 20 super charged plasma shots while hitting on 2s, with re-rolls, and they can never get hot. That is a lot of potential damage from the unit. Against a Land Raider, (T8, W16, 2+) that would strip off 13 wounds on average. Super charging after advancing is still unwise as it makes it possible for you to roll a 2 on the first roll that turns into a 1 on the second roll.

 

Granted this combination is extremely expensive; coming in at around 850 points. It is still a good combo at lesser numbers, the max unit just allows for maximum potential since the +1 to hit is for a nearby unit.

 

On the opposite end of the spectrum, dark shrouds, aversion, and moving penalties combine to make super charging pure suicide. For example, a -2 to hit would make anything 3 or less explode.

[Kasper_Hawser]

I believe that a reroll of 1 is always a fail, which is covered in Shooting Phase clearly. Even with something else providing +1 to shooting, it still won't help if you roll a 1 on the final result after rerolls. 

 

I think this rule is good so that no one can be completely invulnerable to the plasma Gets Hot, regardless of your modifiers. I could be wrong but that's how I'm going to apply to my games.

[Elios Harg]

A one always fails to hit, but the FAQ specifically states that you determine gets hot after re-rolls and modifiers. That's how it is. If you have a +1 to hit and roll a 1, you miss even if your BS is 2+, but you do not get hot.

[Solrac]

People are getting confused what is meant by all of this. Yes modifiers are applied after re-rolls. But all modifiers modify your dice roll (the results of the die) not your stat. So with +1 hit all your 1s are actually 2s which is what is meant by you can supercharge to your heart's content and not die. Granted it works the opposite way with a negative modifier so you will get hot on a 1 and a 2 as you can never get lower than 1 your 1s stay 1s and 2s go to 1.

 

The same goes for other abilities e.g snipers. You will actually cause mortals wounds on 5s and 6s because with a +1 modifier yours 6s become 7s and 5s become 6s.

 

Its a little confusing at first but once you realise how modifiers work it all makes sense. Just a different way of playing we have to get used to.

[dtse]

Yea. It's easy once you stop thinking about your ballistic skill. Just do math on what you actually rolled.