Sun Reaver Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 Quick rules question. Seth has faction keyword: Flesh Tearers. Does this mean he does NOT get the benefits for models that only buff faction keyword: Blood Angels models? For example, Sanguinary Guard don't get their Heir of Azkaellon re-roll if within 6 inches of Seth as it states they must be near a Blood Angels character. Another example would be the Sanguinary Priest's buff for all Blood Angels infantry models within 6 inches. Seth wouldn't get it as he is a Flesh Tearers infantry model. If this is correct, I will be sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dont-Be-Haten Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 you replace the key words with Flesh Tearers. The key word clause means buffs that special named characters give only affect those in their army. such as Dante only buff BAs because he is only the chapter master for the BAs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 SO, as described in the rules for successor chapters - in all cases you change the "Blood Angels" to "Flesh Tearers" in the datasheet.... EXCEPT in special named characters, like Dante, Corbulo, Astorath etc So you can have a Flesh Tearers Sanguinary Priest, or Sanguinary Guard, but CANNOT have a Flesh Tearers Dante. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChapelXIII Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 Side bar on page 89 states that you can substitute the Blood Angels keyword for a different successor chapter so you should be able to substitute Blood Angel for Flesh Tearer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sun Reaver Posted June 19, 2017 Author Share Posted June 19, 2017 So pretty much, if you don't want to run Seth, you can still run everything else because even if you have painted Flesh Tearers, Angels Sanguine, etc, you can still use keyword Blood Angels? Kinda sucks you can't use Astaroth. Isn't he a universal character putting DC out of their misery across the galaxy? EDIT: Spelling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 Yeah, unless someone is going to be an absolute ass. "your Marines aren't painted like codex BA, you can't use your converted Dante!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sun Reaver Posted June 19, 2017 Author Share Posted June 19, 2017 Thank you all for clarifying. Shouldn't have made a thread for such a simple question. Sorry Jolemai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dont-Be-Haten Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 it is silly, why Guilliman can't give all his buffs to <Sons of Guilliman> just doesn't make sense. 100% agree with Charlo. I don't get a lot of times for games right now as it is. I'd rather leave my toys in the box than not enjoy a game over semantics. A narrative or campaign game could make more sense, and even then models such as Guilliman, the Sanguinor, or Astorath would still be playable in my book. though Corbs, Tycho, Mephiston, etc. would not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 I get the idea that they did not want Dante buffing seth, but disallowing count-as sounds a lot like hobby police. "If you did not buy the 11 gbp Dante model but spent lots of money on bits to make a JP character with axe and inferno pistol you cannot run him as Dante, especially if you had the audacity to put a different chapter symbol on his shoulderpad." Chapter tactics worked well in that regard. Why change it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 Thank you all for clarifying. Shouldn't have made a thread for such a simple question. Sorry Jolemai ? No need to apologise; if we don't ask, we don't know! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaughnor Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 Tell you what though, I ran Seth last Saturday and he was a beast. Sure you miss out on the named characters but he is worth it in a rhino rush army. You also can take lemartes as he buffs death company without any chapter specifics from what I understand. Seth and Sang Guard Ancient gives rerolls to hits and re roll 1s for wounds in combat. As well, Seth and the Ancient are still cheaper together than Dante. I'm really liking my Flesh Tearer's right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Semirhagge Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 I'm really waiting for the melee primaris unit. Supposedly suppose to be pretty good. gonna paint them up as flesh tearers, cause who needs reinforcements more than them? and run them around with seth! hopefully primaris transports can transport normal marines too. though thats a tall wish seeing as normal vehicles cannot carry primaris models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halandaar Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 Sorry if this is considered hijacking (feel free to split post off if so) but it seems relevant given the Keywords thing and it was kind of brought up already. Where do we actually stand as a gaming community on "counts as" for named characters now? I mean, the Index is pretty clear that they don't want you to use Dante's rules in a Knights of Blood army (for example), but it seems a bit of a dick move considering that they've also taken the option to make your own Chapter Master away from the core SM Codex. Now the vast majority of chapters have no access to characters stronger than generic Captains, Chaplains and Librarians. Are we just letting it slide and hoping we get better options when the main Codexes start appearing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 Functionally, from a rules perspective - if you are only sticking to units that are "Blood Angels", there is literally no reason not to use a converted Dante, Mephiston etc even if your guys are painted differently. You're still playing "Blood Angels" with all of the same options and limitations. Literally the only difference is that your guys aren't painted Red. When it comes to playing the game it's ZERO difference. Now, what you can't do is play Seth or Malakim and claim them as "Blood Angels", as they are "Flesh Tearers" & "Lamenters" respectively and only buff units from those chapters respectively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halandaar Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 Functionally, from a rules perspective - if you are only sticking to units that are "Blood Angels", there is literally no reason not to use a converted Dante, Mephiston etc even if your guys are painted differently. You're still playing "Blood Angels" with all of the same options and limitations. Literally the only difference is that your guys aren't painted Red. When it comes to playing the game it's ZERO difference. Now, what you can't do is play Seth or Malakim and claim them as "Blood Angels", as they are "Flesh Tearers" & "Lamenters" respectively and only buff units from those chapters respectively. I guess then the shift in semantics is now instead of playing a single character which counts-as Dante, you're playing an entire force which counts-as Blood Angels, in which you have chosen Dante. All it really does is prevent you mixing and matching characters from different chapters which use the same rules (like Seth and Lemartes, or Pedro and Lysander which was possible in the previous edition) and I don't have an issue with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dont-Be-Haten Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 I'm interested in seeing how tournaments approach this actually. Because at some point you come into the Goldie-Locks game "your marines are too orange, your marines are the wrong shade of red, these are just right!" tongue and cheek aside, ove already made it clear with my gaming group, if I field a named character, it is in the spirit of buffing my entire army. Guilliman can fully buff any army played as ultra marines in my book. I have only made the exception of campaigns/narrative play as a successor chapter. There is some back lash however as it is not RAW. I have made my case, that I don't get to play very often and if you aren't going to allow me to play something I have for several esitions, I'm simply not going to take my models out of the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 In my personal opinion, anyone who has devoted the time, effort and money into converting a custom chapter and creating count-as characters deserves to use them. ESPECIALLY when there is ZERO functional difference in the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dont-Be-Haten Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 This is going into a different discussion; but I understand *why* they did it. it was to make the first founding chapters stand out over successors and DIYers. No Angels of Absolution are not going to have an Azrael like character because Azrael has the only grav bike left in imperial existence* Just use common sense about it. I get that the hobby is different for each player. But to me its just a game, and i want to enjoy throwing dice, squealing like a school girl when I stick a six, talk about the game afterwards, and drink beer in between it all. *until Cawl makes new ones for primaris marines because he found a golden age technoscribe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 This is going into a different discussion; but I understand *why* they did it. it was to make the first founding chapters stand out over successors and DIYers sell more models instead of allowing the customers to build characters from leftover/3rd party bits. FTFY No Angels of Absolution are not going to have an Azrael like character because Azrael has the only grav bike left in imperial existence*I always found that weird. A grav bike is essentially a land speeder with a crew of one. Why aren't there more of them? What I really don't get is why they removed the generic chapter masters and Wolf Lords without Thunderwolves. Models exist for them (for the CMs at least) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halandaar Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 This is going into a different discussion; but I understand *why* they did it. it was to make the first founding chapters stand out over successors and DIYers. Well you say that, but two of the named characters (Pedro Kantor and Gabriel Seth) are successors, and the Iron Hands who are an actual First Founding Chapter have no named character at all. What I really don't get is why they removed the generic chapter masters and Wolf Lords without Thunderwolves. Models exist for them (for the CMs at least) Generic Wolf-Lords still exist, you just use the generic "Captain" profiles for them, which is fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 Generic Wolf-Lords still exist, you just use the generic "Captain" profiles for them, which is fine. But such a counts-as Wolf Lord cannot take frost axes or other SW specific wargear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halandaar Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 Generic Wolf-Lords still exist, you just use the generic "Captain" profiles for them, which is fine. But such a counts-as Wolf Lord cannot take frost axes or other SW specific wargear. Are you sure about that? I thought the Space Wolf pages state that those items are added to the wargear list when equipping models which have the Space Wolves keyword. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 I can't check at the moment, but I'm pretty sure there is no general rule that you can put items from the SW lists on SM characters, there only specific units that can do so, like the dreadnoughts. [Edit]I just checked. The book says: "Wolf Lord - Use the Captain (pg 12) or Captain in Gravis Armour (pg 13) datasheet" and "Wolf Lord in Terminator Armour - Use the Captian in Temrinator Armour datashet (pg 12) There is no mention of additional or different wargear choices. The wargear lists on the following page are for genuine SW units (e.g. Wolf Guard) only.[/Edit] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helias_Tancred Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 SO, as described in the rules for successor chapters - in all cases you change the "Blood Angels" to "Flesh Tearers" in the datasheet.... EXCEPT in special named characters, like Dante, Corbulo, Astorath etc So you can have a Flesh Tearers Sanguinary Priest, or Sanguinary Guard, but CANNOT have a Flesh Tearers Dante. I'm not a fan of this rule in 8th edition. It sorta screws over our second founding and other founding chapters. Some of our named Blood Angel characters, Astorath for example, have been found assisting other chapters that are sons of Sanguinius. The same for the Ultramarines, who like us, also have a large number of named characters, and a larger amount of secondary founding chapters they have been known to work with ... especially in this new age of big threats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dont-Be-Haten Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 After talking it over with a few TOs, they seem to think it was to help stop super friends that would take codex space marines, and whatever they wanted. like Khan and Tiberius etc. leave it up to the Smurf players to ruin it for the rest of us... and while I agree counts as should stay, and I'm 100% behind the idea of it. there are *alot* of people against it that I would've never guessed. reading responses from other groups/forums such as Facebook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.