Elysians in 8th

[Captain_Krash]

Do Elysians get access to veterans? 

 

Krash

[Galron]

Yes. Don't know the special weapon options.

[Beaky Brigade]

Well I've collected my book from the local Munitorum depot. Any questions concerning the Elysians? I won't be uploading scans or pics of the book, or giving out points values by PM, so please don't ask

 

Infantry Squad may take 1 Special weapon, no heavy weapons team.

 

3 Veterans may take special weapons, and one other vet may take a heavy flamer in addition (if they don't have other equipment).

 

Most squads have access to Breacher charges, which on a 4+ inflict D3 mortal wounds in assault (or D6 against vehicles) rather than being thrown demo charges.

 

All 4 command squad guys may take special weapons if no other equipment carried, or 2 guys form a weapons team.

 

Elysian Keyword Tauros' may deepstrike just like the infantry and sentinels (and flyers), though the wording is rather poor (It explains the Ariel Drop ability and in the same sentence says Tauros' may have the Drop Assault ability, which RAI must be the same thing, but technically does not exist). Sky Talon has the same grave chute insertion rule as the Valk, so you can drop your sentinels and Tauros on enemies heads.

 

All squads start off max size. Sgts have laspistols and may upgrade to bolt pistols, power swords and plasma pistol.

 

No more long range scanners. To be fair they are quite good, and no longer available, so probably fairer not to include. You can probably use them as Vox guys if you already have them.

 

Have access to the following stuff not in Elysian list (all has Ariel Drop ability):

 

Officer of the fleet

Valkyries

Tauros (both types)

Vulture

Vendetta

Tarntula batteries

Cyclops

Thunderbolt

Lightning

Avenger Strike Fighter

 

Flyers replace their AI keyword with Elysian Drop Troops, and have the Ariel Drop ability

Edited June 24, 2017 by Beaky Brigade

[Captain_Krash]

1) Okay so what's the Ariel Drop ability? I'm assuming everything has the deepstrike special rule?

 

2) Do Elysians have orders?

 

3) So from your personal opinion are Tauros worth taking now?

 

4) Also Tauros can deepstrike as well now?

 

5) How good are there snipers now? I heard they moved to elite choices?

 

6) What are the drop sentinals weapon options.

 

7) Are there Commissars

 

May have more questions.

 

Thank you very much for your help! I numbered them for ease of answering.

 

Krash

Edited June 24, 2017 by Captain_Krash

[Beaky Brigade]

1) Okay so what's the Ariel Drop ability? I'm assuming everything has the deepstrike special rule?

 

2) Do Elysians have orders?

 

3) So from your personal opinion are Tauros worth taking now?

 

4) Also Tauros can deepstrike as well now?

 

5) How good are there snipers now? I heard they moved to elite choices?

 

6) What are the drop sentinals weapon options.

 

7) Are there Commissars

 

May have more questions.

 

Thank you very much for your help! I numbered them for ease of answering.

 

Krash

 

1) Yes basically deepstrike.

 

Aerial Drop:

 

During deployment, you can set up this model in a high-altitude transport instead of placing it on the battlefield. At the end of any of your movement phases, the unit can aerial (correct spelling!) drop into battle - set it up anywhere on the battlefield that is more than 9" away from any enemy models.

 

Already I'm wondering if this countermands the restriction on more than half of your units being in reserve, and units being destroyed if they are not on the table by turn 3... Forge World! Also you have to use your imagination with the aircraft with this rule, they could be in a low flying starship, or just flying high.

 

2) Yes they have their own orders they must use. See the previous page for my explanation of those, 2 out of 7 are different from the AM.

 

3) I don't own them and never take them sorry, but they could be better now they have Aerial Drop (deepstrike)

4) Yes as far as I can see

5) Snipers are now elite choices, and form heavy weapons teams, so you can actually take them like FW sell them. 1 sniper and 1 lasgun per team, and BS 3+. No other special rules.

6) Same as before, Heavy Bolter, Multi Melta or Heavy Flamer (and hunter killer missile).

7) Only the Elysian Lord Commissar. He looks better than the AM Lord Commissar, comes with frag and krag grenades and can take a boltgun, and has the 'Iron Discipline' ability Elysian officers have that allow units within 6" to re roll of failed morale checks.

Edited June 24, 2017 by Beaky Brigade

[Captain_Krash]

Awesome! Thanks for the info especially the commissar which is going to really help to mitigate losses.

 

1) Rules for Tarntula batteries

 

2) Rules for Cyclops

 

3) And I believe finally do Elysians any of there own special rules like how the DKoK have there own "faction" special rules.

 

Thanks again!

[Beaky Brigade]

1) Tarantula Battery, 1 to 3 Tarantula. Set up within 6 of each other, but count as separate models after that. Elysian Tarantulas get Aerial drop (so I'm assuming they drop as a Battery).

 

Twin heavy bolter or Twin Lascannon.

 

No firing modes, they just auto target the closest suitable target (heavy bolter infantry, lascannon vehicles). May only shoot other types if no suitable targets in range.

Can only target characters if closest model (and above criteria).

 

 

2) Cyclops, big change, comes in a squadron of 1-3 (split after deployment). No more operators! They just drive around on their own!

 

Demo charge: Fired in the shooting phase, affects units in 6". Heavy 2d6, S9, AP -2 Damage D3. No victory points if the controlling player triggers the explosion. Removed from play after.

 

It does D3 mortal wounds instead if destroyed, but I suppose the disadvantage is it counts towards victory points, and a nice dilemma for a player trying to shoot it. It may be better to let it live!

 

It's a vehicle so no transport option, but it can Aerial Drop (deepstrike) when Elysian keyword.

 

3) Elysians get special orders, Officers Iron Discipline and Aerial drop and access to the units in the army list, but other wise no other benefits.

Edited June 24, 2017 by Beaky Brigade

[Captain_Krash]

Wow the Tarantula can be seriously good especially if it's mixed in with the rest of your other units deepstriking. You have the option to give your opponents waaaaay to many targets to handle.

 

And I seriously love the Cyclops now. GOing to be great in area denial hiding behind terrain. There very low profile so extremely easy to hide! And pack quite a punch the fact that they can also deep strike is extremely powerful they can take on infantry and vehicles with ease with the 2d6 S9 and -2 D3 damage with each failed save! That's amazing!  

 

These two are definitely hidden gems of the list that are sure to be overlooked.

 

Elysians are seriously looking to be quite a powerful little army. Especially for a standard guard army.

 

Thanks for the help if I could give you more likes I would!!

 

Krash

Edited June 24, 2017 by Captain_Krash

[Beaky Brigade]

No problem. I think RAW, you can ignore the restrictions on reserves as you are not placing anything in reserve. I'm not sure if that's RAI though. ANY movement phase seems to be important.

 

Aerial Drop:

 

During deployment, you can set up this model in a high-altitude transport instead of placing it on the battlefield. At the end of any of your movement phases, the unit can aerial  drop into battle - set it up anywhere on the battlefield that is more than 9" away from any enemy models.

 

 

Edit, reading the rules for Tactical Reserves in matched play, it looks like the restrictions for half your army in reserve only, and destroyed if they don't arrive by end of turn 3 would apply. In narrative or open play, go nuts (within the scenario).

 

 

Extra observation, for batteforged lists, flyer heavy Elysian players will need to consider extra air wing detachments to include all their flyers as most detachments only allow 1-3 flyers, and Valks are no longer dedicated transports. Not really an issue as you can have as many detachments as you like, but it will require a rethink if you traditionally relied on them to fill fast attack or heavy support slots.

 

Our only fast attack choices are the Tauros vehicles, and heavy support Heavy Weapons Squads, Tarantula and Cyclops, so you may need to mix them with other imperial forces for the Brigade Detachment depending on your collection.

Edited June 24, 2017 by Beaky Brigade

[Galron]

Another change which annoys me since I will have to multi-base things is the snipers. Can no longer be added to a command squad or a SWS squad. The whole 2 wound base thing is kind of bogus especially since the other special weapons still are individuals.

 

Current thoughts on building the army- While I like the fact heavy weapons can drop, I cant see myself using that very often. Since we do have to have half our force on the board, heavy weapons seem like good options to have there supported by flamer command squads for first turn charge mitigation. I definitely see potential for fleet officers dropping close enough to targets for our valks and vultures to get improved shots off. Might mitigate Vendettas 5+ shooting as well.

 

Liking the Tarantulas as well, with heavy bolters they will be a great distraction unit just to drop somewhere useful but force the opponent to deal with them. I have never considered Cyclops before. Seem pretty fun to screw with an opponent.

[Captain_Krash]

Like seriously Elysian's are playing more like Dark Eldar than they ever have before. Spam Deepstriking Tauros everywhere! 

 

Krash

[Beaky Brigade]

Like seriously Elysian's are playing more like Dark Eldar than they ever have before. Spam Deepstriking Tauros everywhere! 

 

Krash

Taurus' get 5+ invulnerable for moving over 10" and Venator has no penalty for moving and firing heavy weapons

[Level9red]

The officer of the fleet reroll 1 ability won't work RAW. It applies to aeronautical imperial units, but the Elysian flyers say they loose this and gain Elysian drop troops instead... that's an annoying oversight. Or could we take a brigade with a mix of normal guard and Elysians (all imperium faction keyword) and not make the flyers Elysians to get round it? Thoughts? It's clearly an oversight and perhaps the officer of the fleets ability it's supposed to be modified to Elysians to.

[Beaky Brigade]

The officer of the fleet reroll 1 ability won't work RAW. It applies to aeronautical imperial units, but the Elysian flyers say they loose this and gain Elysian drop troops instead... that's an annoying oversight. Or could we take a brigade with a mix of normal guard and Elysians (all imperium faction keyword) and not make the flyers Elysians to get round it? Thoughts? It's clearly an oversight and perhaps the officer of the fleets ability it's supposed to be modified to Elysians to.

Welcome to the forum!

 

Note that it says 'models In the list that have the Aeronutica Imperialis keywords replace them with Elysian Drop Troops.'

 

I take that to mean you replace all instances of the keyword, and not just change the faction, so officer of the fleet's ability will change to affect Elysian keyword instead of AI keyword.

 

I've also found that special weapons squads don't replace their lasgun with anything when choosing a special weapon (RAW) so 3 of the troopers will carry two Weapons. You could find a use for the auxiliary grenade launcher models or do some silly duel wielding conversions.

Edited June 25, 2017 by Beaky Brigade

[Level9red]

 

The officer of the fleet reroll 1 ability won't work RAW. It applies to aeronautical imperial units, but the Elysian flyers say they loose this and gain Elysian drop troops instead... that's an annoying oversight. Or could we take a brigade with a mix of normal guard and Elysians (all imperium faction keyword) and not make the flyers Elysians to get round it? Thoughts? It's clearly an oversight and perhaps the officer of the fleets ability it's supposed to be modified to Elysians to.

Welcome to the forum!

Note that it says 'models In the list that have the Aeronutica Imperialis keywords replace them with Elysian Drop Troops.'

I take that to mean you replace all instances of the keyword, and not just change the faction, so officer of the fleet's ability will change to affect Elysian keyword instead of AI keyword.

I've also found that special weapons squads don't replace their lasgun with anything when choosing a special weapon (RAW) so 3 of the troopers will carry two Weapons. You could find a use for the auxiliary grenade launcher models or do some silly duel wielding conversions.

Thank you for the welcome!

 

Yeah that makes the most sense. My regular opponent would be fine, it's worth getting a consensus or having a justification for the others.

 

I'm looking forward to using the Elysians, mine are mostly catahcan models, with the vets with Cadian torsos and legs, catachan arms and beret heads. An airborne jungle theme.

 

Question, I presume we could use normal AM sentinels in FA as they share imperium and AM keywords?

[Harrowmaster]

 

 

The officer of the fleet reroll 1 ability won't work RAW. It applies to aeronautical imperial units, but the Elysian flyers say they loose this and gain Elysian drop troops instead... that's an annoying oversight. Or could we take a brigade with a mix of normal guard and Elysians (all imperium faction keyword) and not make the flyers Elysians to get round it? Thoughts? It's clearly an oversight and perhaps the officer of the fleets ability it's supposed to be modified to Elysians to.

Welcome to the forum!

Note that it says 'models In the list that have the Aeronutica Imperialis keywords replace them with Elysian Drop Troops.'

I take that to mean you replace all instances of the keyword, and not just change the faction, so officer of the fleet's ability will change to affect Elysian keyword instead of AI keyword.

I've also found that special weapons squads don't replace their lasgun with anything when choosing a special weapon (RAW) so 3 of the troopers will carry two Weapons. You could find a use for the auxiliary grenade launcher models or do some silly duel wielding conversions.

Thank you for the welcome!

 

Yeah that makes the most sense. My regular opponent would be fine, it's worth getting a consensus or having a justification for the others.

 

I'm looking forward to using the Elysians, mine are mostly catahcan models, with the vets with Cadian torsos and legs, catachan arms and beret heads. An airborne jungle theme.

 

Question, I presume we could use normal AM sentinels in FA as they share imperium and AM keywords?

 

It's fine to use regular sentinels in the same detachment, in fact because of the Imperium Keyword you could include an assassin or a squad of Grey Knights if you wanted  

[Galron]

Since Tarantulas are a viable option for now for throwing out more dakka and blocking off DS space from the opponent not to mention being a significant distraction the opponent has to deal with, has anyone found any decent alternative models for them? Im afraid 22 pounds a pop plus shipping is a bit high for me.

 

So we have had a little time now to digest the new list. What are you guys thinking now?

I think I am going with two infantry squads with grenade launchers, a vet squad with melta, several flamer command teams, at least one, maybe two sniper teams, a slew of heavy weapons teams, mostly missile and mortar, 6 tarantulas, 2 squads of 2 sentinels, 2 Venators, 2 vultures, two valks with missile pods and a lightning. I am having a hard time justifying a Vendetta with it orkish ballistic skill but maybe Ill give it a try sometime. This is just initial thinking. I haven't pointed it out yet on paper.

[micahwc]

Tarantula:

 

Take two heavy bolters. Drill a hole through them that matches a plastic rod you have. Drill a hole through a plastic cube. Glue heavy bolter to one side of the rod. Insert rod through the hole in the cube. Glue second heavy bolter to other side of cube. Heavy bolters can now elevate. Pin box to a round base. Heavy bolters can now traverse. Cobble up legs from something (I'll try with cut up sprues) and glue to the underside of the base. Add a targeter (scope from a hotshot lasgun?) to the box the heavy bolters are attached to. Put the entire thing on a 50mm base.

[Beaky Brigade]

If you want to save £2, get the space marine version:

 

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/Space-Marine-Tarantula-with-Heavy-Bolters

 

If you want to save £6 get the FW razorback turret, and either make your own legs, or use any spare legs you have for the 40k turret scenery.

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/Heavy-Bolters-Razorback-Conversion-Kit

[Captain_Krash]

I'm going to get at least 3 of each. There just so good for deployment manipulation and giving more targets that your opponent "has" to deal with eventually. Between objective claiming, distraction, cheap point cost. There almost too good especially there ability to deepstrike. I wouldn't want to deal with them....

 

Krash

Edited June 26, 2017 by Captain_Krash

[Harrowmaster]

Kromlech sell alternatives if you don't want to convert

[Galron]

How are you guys doing your infantry squads if you are running them? I am fielding Two squads with simple grenade launchers. Havent quite figured out a role for them yet except as objective grabbers.

 

Another question since I am not sure on this whole keyword thing. Pretty sure at a later point they will lock them down a bit tighter to reduce a lot of the BS mismatching going on so armies are a bit more uniform and less silly looking, but for now we can have anything with Militarium in it? Like say I wanted to field Earthshaker Artillery pieces or quad mortars I could because they are Militarium but since they aren't on the regimental list they obviously don't get to deep strike. That's the only negative right now for doing so?

Ends up being a Spearhead and a Battalion

So far my list is looking at 2250 roughly:

HQ

Commander

Scion commander

Commander

Commander

Troops

Infantry squad with Grenade launcher

Infantry Squad with grenade launcher

Scions plasma x2 and plasma pistol

Scions plasma x2 and plasma pistol

 

Elites

Command squad with flamers

Command squad with flamers

Snipers x3

Snipers x3

 

FA

Venators x2 w/lascannons

Drop Sentinels x2 w/Heavy Flamers (don't remember if the sentinels are FA or Elite but I have the slots either way)

Drop Sentinels x2 w/ Multimeltas

**If I have spare points I put Tank Hunter missiles on the sentinels and venators

 

HS

Tarantulas x3 with Heavy Bolters

Tarantulas x3 with Heavy Bolters

Mortar squad

Missile Squad x2

Heavy Bolter squad 

 

Flyer

Valkyrie x2 with missile pods and heavy bolters

Vulture x2 with Twin Punisher cannons.

 

** If points are available I will be testing the efficiency between tank hunter missiles and Officers of the fleet. One officer of the fleet wont change my deployment numbers and properly deepstruck might make the difference between a destroyed unit or not.

 

I would love more infantry squads over the scions but currently scions are just too points efficient in the slot. I don't feel I have a lot of bodies for a 2250 game but I do have what seems to me a lot of stuff in general. 

 

The overall game plan which obviously will change due to the opponent is All the heavy weapons well behind my deployment zone line creating a large deep strike  and gate free bubble. On the board starting models in general will be all four heavy weapon teams, both flyers, both snipers, both venators, one commander and an infantry squad. The goal of the flamer squads is to blunt a early game charge on my gun line. If that doesn't materialize they will land in enemy territory to hunt bad guys. Overall though the plan is an envelopment plan. Enemy comes forward, start dropping annoying things like tarantulas on the flanks and picking at them. Zoom my meltagun vets forward to grav chute into close range enemy tanks, both with commanders for the orders to make sure their sacrifice isn't in vain and once again they then act as a powerful distraction unit the enemy cant ignore. Sentinels stalk the enemy back field  and scions and their commander drop and hurt something valuable.

 

For 2500 which was normally a minimum game size for our group I would add a Vendetta.

[Stylian_StHugh]

How are you guys doing your infantry squads if you are running them? I am fielding Two squads with simple grenade launchers. Havent quite figured out a role for them yet except as objective grabbers.

 

Another question since I am not sure on this whole keyword thing. Pretty sure at a later point they will lock them down a bit tighter to reduce a lot of the BS mismatching going on so armies are a bit more uniform and less silly looking, but for now we can have anything with Militarium in it? Like say I wanted to field Earthshaker Artillery pieces or quad mortars I could because they are Militarium but since they aren't on the regimental list they obviously don't get to deep strike. That's the only negative right now for doing so?

Ends up being a Spearhead and a Battalion

So far my list is looking at 2250 roughly:

HQ

Commander

Scion commander

Commander

Commander

Troops

Infantry squad with Grenade launcher

Infantry Squad with grenade launcher

Scions plasma x2 and plasma pistol

Scions plasma x2 and plasma pistol

 

Elites

Command squad with flamers

Command squad with flamers

Snipers x3

Snipers x3

 

FA

Venators x2 w/lascannons

Drop Sentinels x2 w/Heavy Flamers (don't remember if the sentinels are FA or Elite but I have the slots either way)

Drop Sentinels x2 w/ Multimeltas

**If I have spare points I put Tank Hunter missiles on the sentinels and venators

 

HS

Tarantulas x3 with Heavy Bolters

Tarantulas x3 with Heavy Bolters

Mortar squad

Missile Squad x2

Heavy Bolter squad 

 

Flyer

Valkyrie x2 with missile pods and heavy bolters

Vulture x2 with Twin Punisher cannons.

 

** If points are available I will be testing the efficiency between tank hunter missiles and Officers of the fleet. One officer of the fleet wont change my deployment numbers and properly deepstruck might make the difference between a destroyed unit or not.

 

I would love more infantry squads over the scions but currently scions are just too points efficient in the slot. I don't feel I have a lot of bodies for a 2250 game but I do have what seems to me a lot of stuff in general. 

 

The overall game plan which obviously will change due to the opponent is All the heavy weapons well behind my deployment zone line creating a large deep strike  and gate free bubble. On the board starting models in general will be all four heavy weapon teams, both flyers, both snipers, both venators, one commander and an infantry squad. The goal of the flamer squads is to blunt a early game charge on my gun line. If that doesn't materialize they will land in enemy territory to hunt bad guys. Overall though the plan is an envelopment plan. Enemy comes forward, start dropping annoying things like tarantulas on the flanks and picking at them. Zoom my meltagun vets forward to grav chute into close range enemy tanks, both with commanders for the orders to make sure their sacrifice isn't in vain and once again they then act as a powerful distraction unit the enemy cant ignore. Sentinels stalk the enemy back field  and scions and their commander drop and hurt something valuable.

 

For 2500 which was normally a minimum game size for our group I would add a Vendetta.

Grenade Launchers are totally not worth it. You're better off buying more Guardsmen or spending a tiny bit more for plasma  

 

So far I've run my Infantry Squads bare, though switching to Elysian means I will likely run plasma+plasma pistol  

 

Yes, the keyword rules are pretty open. You can basically take anything in a detachment with the Imperium keyword. With regards to Imperial Guard, if you take Elysians, they are their own Regiment and other Regiment HQs (ie Scions or cheaper footsloggers) can't give them orders and visa versa. If you aren't going to Deep Strike your Elysian unit in, it's almost always worth saving the points and just take normal IG. 

 

Elysian Command Squads are probably better than Scions to deliver DS plasma. Can bring more of it more efficiently  

 

A missile loaded Vendetta is more points efficient than a Valkyrie  

 

With a bit of fiddling, it's easy enough for you to field a Battalion + Spearhead + Flyer Wing

[Galron]

I brought the scions because I needed the troops based on what I own currently. The HQ guy fills the slot as well. I will look into it as I move my army progress forward. Aside from some snipers and meltagun teams(plus the scions who have been completely done and painted for almost 15 years), its mostly unassembled.

 

Hmm I will look into the missile Vendy, I have never given it a second thought before you mentioned it.

 

Using basic IG stats for elysians just seems wrong, but you are right, it will save me 13 points as things currently stand.

[Stylian_StHugh]

You can run Scion models as Elysian models no problem, anyone who cares is far too uptight. Heck, I'm using Elysian rules now for my Renegades army (ie they come from out of the warp!)  

 

It may be once Codexes hit, you're given a bonus for thematic/single book Detachments, though that starts the slippery slope back to Formations very easily