Elysians in 8th

[Beaky Brigade]

I am not sure what cargo you are referring to with the transport ability. Valks and vendies are still valuable for dropping units like meltagun squads off at 9" who then walk the rest of the way into short range. Unless they FAQ'd this already and I missed it. Don't get used to it if they haven't, just like infinite command squads I expect this ability to be on the chopping block sooner than later.

I was referring to the Sky Talon dropping Sentinels and Tauros only, I see now I was only clear about that in my own mind lol

[Galron]

Its the only unit in the game that allows deep striking at 9" not at the end of the movement phase. I think it was an oversight. I expect when either the actual codex comes out or a near future FAQ will change this. Remember Lemondish, all these indexes are just temporary and alot within the list wiil change. Like Krash said, the actual style of the army probably wont change, just the actual units involved and what they are equipped with. For example for several editions now Veteran squads have been troops, while storm troopers have been elites. That has now reversed this edition. We used to have Vendettas in the codex, now they are FW only.

 

As to command squads, right now there is no reason to bring special weapon squads since command squads fill the exact same role but with 4 weapons for only slightly more points. I see this getting reduced in the actual codex release to be one command squad per company or platoon commander.

[Lemondish]

Based on what I can see, not a lot of flyers have Hover Jets either. Is that also a likely rule that may be removed? The way it sounds is that everything is in flux and it might be smart to wait until the game rules are finished before jumping in. Any idea when these Codexes will be ready?

 

Totally getting two different vibes here, though. One person says it's been mostly the same forever while another believes whole rules will change or disappear.

[Captain_Krash]

Well yeah stupid rules like the ability to spam like 8+ command squads, those will change guaranteed, hell I don't even do it now just because it's dumb and exploitive but you can. I would totally do it in a tournament but in a friendly game, no.

 

Hover jets will never go away that's part of our flyer rules that make them special. NO ETA on codex releases could be 3 months, could be 2 years, we just don't know.

 

The basic rules of guard will not change and haven't in a loooooooong time. Get the Militarum Tempestus start collecting box and you can't go wrong from there we can build you into tip top shape in no time.

 

Krash

[Beaky Brigade]

Well the FAQ for normal guard made command squads 1 per officer, so I expect the Elysians will follow suit next week when they get the IA FAQ.

[Galron]

Do they even have to? It says AM and Regiment<> thus Elysians fall under Regiment<>  and already are affected by it. At least thats my logic on it. Either way we knew it was coming sooner than later, they made SWSs useless.

[Beaky Brigade]

Do they even have to? It says AM and Regiment<> thus Elysians fall under Regiment<>  and already are affected by it. At least thats my logic on it. Either way we knew it was coming sooner than later, they made SWSs useless.

 

Page 10

– Astra Militarum Army List

Add the following rule:

‘

Matched Play – Command Squads

If you are playing a matched play game, a Battle-forged

army can include a maximum of one

<Regiment>

Command Squad (pg 15) in a Detachment for each

<Regiment> Officer

in that Detachment. Similarly,

if you are playing a matched play game, a Battle-

forged army can include a maximum of one Militarum

Tempestus Command Squad (pg 51) in a Detachment

for each Tempestor Prime (pg 50) in that Detachment.’

 

 

I'd say that a Elysian command squad is it's own thing and this is just the AM list, but yes the writing is on the wall for them.

[Lemondish]

I don't follow, Beaky. Doesn't the IA book clearly outline that Elysians are a regiment?

[Level9red]

I guess it could be read that the page references mean that it only applies to the normal guard book as those are the pages referenced. What's more annoying is that is specifies detachment, so that if you add a HQ detachment you can't then fill up the remaining elite slots in a brigade detachment with command squads as they are a different detachment. Overly restrictive at that point I think.

[Professor Gee]

More interestingly, the FAQ did not kill the ability of the Valkyrie to drop dudes out before the end of the movement phase (which implies that said dudes can still move after being dropped). This suggests that they are happy with it, and it might be why it has the chance to die stipulation. I'd say this is good news for melta sws.

[Shamansky]

I think Galron is right here. Elysians are a Astra Militarum <Regiment>. Index Imperium 2 states general rules for Astra Militarum regiments. Why would elysians be different in structure? That's pretty illogical.

[Level9red]

They probably are the rules for it, but the Elysians are different in structure, no heavy weapon teams in squads. So less heavy weapons could mean more special weapons to compensate as they are more easily airdroppable. I don't think this is behind the rules and expect the FW FAQ to change it. But I could see a logical fluff reason for it.

[Beaky Brigade]

I think Galron is right here. Elysians are a Astra Militarum <Regiment>. Index Imperium 2 states general rules for Astra Militarum regiments. Why would elysians be different in structure? That's pretty illogical.

 

Because an Elysian Command Squad is a different unit, it's not just a AM command squad with the <Elysian> keyword, though it does also have that. The FAQ adds that rule to the AM Index not the IA one, and an Elysian player never has to refer to that entry as they can't take a standard command squad. It's not a general ruling, it just adds this to the AM command squad page:

 

Page 10

– Astra Militarum Army List

Add the following rule:

 

Matched Play – Command Squads

If you are playing a matched play game, a Battle-forged army can include a maximum of one <Regiment>

Command Squad (pg 15) in a Detachment for each <Regiment> Officer

 

The only way a AM faq affects Elysians is if it affects a AM unit they are allowed to take in addition to their list. Of course FW may choose to follow any precedents set by GW (and I hope they do in this case).

 

Not arguing in favour of taking loads of command squads BTW.

Edited July 4, 2017 by Beaky Brigade

[Mitchverr]

The reason the rule adds it to the AM and not elysian is because elysians are FW, if GW was doing the FAQing for both sides of the company it would also be included, I am 100% certain of that.

 

FW have not yet done a FAQ, I would apply the GW FAQ universally (ie to both krieg and elysians) till the FAQ is released at the very least by FW. I would also go further and apply the krieg death rider command squad needing a death rider officer, simply because it makes sense, you dont have a command squad without an officer in it, the whole point of the squad is to support an officer lol.

 

If they wanted you to take more special weapons, they would tell you to take a special weapons squad lol (which btw, the dkok dont get access to, nor do they get heavy weapons in their inf/grenadiers atm)

Edited July 4, 2017 by Mitchverr

[Captain_Krash]

Correct no reason in trying to exploit the stupid command squad spam...I don't even know why people are trying to...play the game legit use special weapon squads in your an Elysian player. 

 

Krash 

[Shamansky]

What is Elysian keyword? I mean what is it if not a <Regiment>?

Edited July 4, 2017 by Shamansky

[Beaky Brigade]

I'm not sure there's much more point debating it as it will be FAQ'd within a week I'm certain.

[Lemondish]

Ah, just another reminder why my local gaming groups ban FW for anything competitive.

[Shamansky]

Ah, just another reminder why my local gaming groups ban FW for anything competitive.

Because people try to get as much cheese as they can?

[Cheesy101]

Quick question on Elysian sniper squads:

 

the codex says "the unit contains 3 Elysian sniper teams. Each model is armed with a sniper rifle, lasgun and frag grenades"

 

Does this mean each team (I.e. each base) contains only one sniper rifle, lasgun etc? Or, because there are 2 models per base, should there be 2 sniper rifles, lasguns etc per base?

 

Probably an obvious answer and I'm just being dense, but seems very strangely worded.

[Mitchverr]

Its the same as heavy weapons squads, each base should be 1 "model" movement etc wise, however you should have 2 guys on it.

 

So they have a sniper rifle and a lasgun, like how a heavy weapon team has a heavy bolter and a lasgun and grenades.

[Level9red]

I don't want to prolong the debate about the command squads and I agree they will FAQ them in a week, but I'm a little sad D99 didn't make it through to 8th so far. They had an elite veteran squad with all special weapons, up to double digits with special weapons, like 2-3 command squads stuck together, command squads would have looked less OP next to them.

[Mitchverr]

I suspect D-99 will return, this book is just the "initial" book remember, they will go into specialised stuff in the future I suspect as alot of people lost alot of interesting stuff.

 

BTW venators, whats peoples thoughts on "how many is too many"? Thinking of getting 6 in a 3-3 or 4-2 multilaser - lascannon makeup to go with my kriegers as I personally dont like russes in the current set of rules.

 

Also thinking on getting drop sentinels because they look fun aswell, how many would be a "decent" number to roll which could drop in/run forwards together for mutual support?

[Galron]

I run 2 venators with lascannon, 2 tauros with magnetized heavy flamer, but auto-grenade launchers have a major sense of RL nostalgia though. I havent tested them thoroughly. I field 2 or 4 drop sentinels as well with multi-meltas and heavy flamers. I almost thing the multi-meltas are better just because you can in fact DS into short range even if you only hit 50/50 of the time.

[Withershadow]

You don't hit 50% of the time, you count as having moved when you "deep strike", so the Sentinel would be hitting on 5s.