8th Dark Angels Tactica and Tournament Guide (in progress)

[Gen.Steiner]

Yeah, just having a browse on the FW Website and there's a lot of cool weapon arms on there.

Quad lascannons.

Quad lascannons!!

[G8Keeper]

 

Make sure to take the FW Dreads into account. Loads of good toys there

 

 

Yeah I'm taking a trip up to WHW soon so I shall purchase one or two I think.  The Leviathan is very tempting :D

[aekold]

With all the talk about dual lascannon mortis dreadnoughts I feel I have to weigh in.

 

When you take a dual lascannon dread(mortis) and a rifledread (venerable) you have 4 lascannons that hit on 3+ and 8 autocannons that hit on a 2+.

 

Another possibility is to take 2 venerable dreads with a twin lascannon en twin autocannon each. This way you still have the same amount of shots, but they are all hitting on a 2+. furthermore your dreads are more durable due to the 6+ FNP.

 

You have divided your firewpower, making it difficult for your opponent to take out all your lascannons or autocannons in a single attempt. You can still fire all lascannon shots at one target and autocannon shots at another target due to the split fire rules.

[dtse]

Be sure to check if your local meta/players allow forgeworld!

[Gen.Steiner]

Aekold (you Tzeentchian you), that's true, but I do like the look of the Dreads with their matching weapons systems.

[Itsacon]

Yeah, the Mortis became pretty much pointless when it lost skyfire. A rifleman venerable dread is only fifteen pts more than a mortis with quad autocannons, and hits 17% more and lives 17% longer, while a normal rifleman is actually 5 points cheaper.

meanwhile the twin-las/twin AC venerable dread is actually cheaper than a quad-las mortis, at better damage output. And then you get the 6+ FNP as a bonus.

 

Also: shameless plug

Edited July 26, 2017 by Itsacon

[Solrac]

The new SM codex has scrapped all Dreadnought options that do not come in plastic. It is highly likely this will happen to our DA dex when we get it.

 

While I agree A Ven Dread with Lascannon + Autocannon is superior than having Mortis + Rifleman in dedicated loads outs there are a couple of things you need to take into consideration.

 

1. Cost - While a Ven dread is only a few points more than a Mortis you wanna have between 8 to 12 Lascannons in your army. That's 4 to 6 Ven Dreads you need to pay for and all those extra's add up and limits you on other things you may need to take (enough bodies for bubble wrap for example).

2. Split Firing - You will be split firing most of the time with each of your Dreads. This slows your turns down and you have to be very mindful of it.

3. Footprint Size - It is very crowded to fit in 4 to 6 Dreadnooughts bunched together to try and get the buffs you need (Azrael, Shroud, Lieutenant) for super effectiveness of your dreadnoughts. This also means as all the dreads are the same size it will be very difficult not to block LOS for some of your Dreads meaning you will have to move some of them and getting -1 to hit. Granted their 2+ goes to a 3+ but you are paying a premium for that sweet sweet BS.

 

I've play tested my 5 Dread list already. 3 Mortis with Las and 2 Ven Dreads with Autocannons. Everyone wants to kill the Shroud or get rid of 4 Lascannons and takes the entire armys worth of shooting to even attempt it (unless you are up against lots of big forgeworld guns). My Ven Dreads aren't bothered straight away meaning I set the up out of bubble range meaning I can really defend my 3 Mortis properly without worrying about footprint.

 

Just some food for thought.

[Solrac]

Also want to make mention the new Kill Shot Stratagem that is coming out for Predators might make me switch back to Preds.

 

The expert from Warhammer Community says after you spend Command Points (2 from memory) the Predators can combine fire (not sure what this means, maybe they all have to shoot at the same target?) and gain +1 to wound and +1 damage.

 

This is super awesome. With this stratagem I'm thinking of running 3 Predators with Predator Autocannon and Lascannon Sponsons. Why I would choose the Autocannon over the Twin Las? Well I would already have 6 Las wounding other T8 Monsters on 2s and doing minimum 2 Damage. The Predator Autocannon will do, at minimum, the same amount of shots as a Twin Las but will be wounding on 4s instead of 5s and doing a flat 4 Damage (increased from 3). That is huge. You also have the versatility to shoot at other things with the Predator Autocannon and all this is further enhanced with your Azrael and Lieutenant buff.

 

Just need more details on that Stratagem before I make up my mind.

[Helycon]

If it's in the index, you can still use the unit. The codex only has rules for units that exist in the current GW range. This case would work the exact same as chaplains and librarians on a bike. Not in the codex, but use the index.

[dtse]

For competitive play I doubt they willlet you use index if it's not in codex but of course that's up to individual comps. Otherwise there's no point taking them out of the codex

 

That three predator stratagem may not be in the dark angel codex. Will have to wait and see.

[Solrac]

If it's in the index, you can still use the unit. The codex only has rules for units that exist in the current GW range. This case would work the exact same as chaplains and librarians on a bike. Not in the codex, but use the index.

 

I know but what I said was when we get our stand alone DA dex in future we will most likely see those dread options disappear. At the moment DA still use the Index so we still have those options until then or an Errata comes saying that the SM entries replace the Index ones.

 

For competitive play I doubt they willlet you use index if it's not in codex but of course that's up to individual comps. Otherwise there's no point taking them out of the codex

 

That three predator stratagem may not be in the dark angel codex. Will have to wait and see.

 

The Predator Stratagem is available when you buy the triple Predator bundle I believe. It's not in a codex.

 

Edit: Nevermind just checked the Killshot Bundle and says the Stratagem is in the SM book. Have to wait and see if we can use it.

Edited July 26, 2017 by Solrac

[Pvnisher]

So it's kind of similar to how the Apocalypse triple predator unit works. They used to combine to shoot d weapons.

[Solrac]

From Warhammer Community on the SM dex:

The new codex has rules for all these units, but if you’re a Space Wolves, Dark Angels, Blood Angels or Deathwatch player, you’ll still be able to use these units in your army. As well as full datasheets in each box, we’re updating our reference PDFs to give you points costs for your matched play games before your codex comes out!

[dtse]

Yea. Use the units. Not the stratagems. Which are chapter restricted for the most part. And once our codex comes we likely won't be allowed anything except what's on a list probably. Anyway use what you can while you can!

[Solrac]

Yea. Use the units. Not the stratagems. Which are chapter restricted for the most part. And once our codex comes we likely won't be allowed anything except what's on a list probably. Anyway use what you can while you can!

 

Well we haven't actually seen if all the stratagems are chapter restricted. If it just says insert <Chapter> keyword there is no reason we can't use them . It could just be a stratagem that becomes available when you take 3 predators.

 

Ill have a look at a codex on Saturday and report back.

[Frater Cornelius]

Only 5 are Chapter restricted, a few are unit restricted. Most are general though. For example, as long as DA are without a dex, I dare you to stop me from using the Chapter Master Stratagem :P

In fact, I used it in two games with the Primaris, Scouts and DS. In short, I am pleased. Summaries up to tomorrow.

[dtse]

i'd definitely not let you use stuff not released yet! 

[Lord Blackwood]

i'd definitely not let you use stuff not released yet! 

this

[Frater Cornelius]

Tough. I have the rules, I have the points, people want to practice for a tournament, so I play. Unless of course you want to wait until Saturday to hear how it played.

[Helycon]

 

 

If it's in the index, you can still use the unit. The codex only has rules for units that exist in the current GW range. This case would work the exact same as chaplains and librarians on a bike. Not in the codex, but use the index.

I know but what I said was when we get our stand alone DA dex in future we will most likely see those dread options disappear. At the moment DA still use the Index so we still have those options until then or an Errata comes saying that the SM entries replace the Index ones.

For competitive play I doubt they willlet you use index if it's not in codex but of course that's up to individual comps. Otherwise there's no point taking them out of the codex

 

That three predator stratagem may not be in the dark angel codex. Will have to wait and see.

The Predator Stratagem is available when you buy the triple Predator bundle I believe. It's not in a codex.

 

Edit: Nevermind just checked the Killshot Bundle and says the Stratagem is in the SM book. Have to wait and see if we can use it.

They won't do that. They specifically stated that the DA and other SM armies that had a codex will use the index until they get their own. The SM codex will never be needed for one of these armies.

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/05/codexes-your-questions-answered-july-5gw-homepage-post-2/

 

You can find it there.

[Aothaine]

 

They won't do that. They specifically stated that the DA and other SM armies that had a codex will use the index until they get their own. The SM codex will never be needed for one of these armies.

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/05/codexes-your-questions-answered-july-5gw-homepage-post-2/

 

You can find it there.

 

 

They also stated that we can use units from either the codex or the index and if so, we would use the data slate from the appropriate book.

[Helycon]

 

 

They won't do that. They specifically stated that the DA and other SM armies that had a codex will use the index until they get their own. The SM codex will never be needed for one of these armies.

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/05/codexes-your-questions-answered-july-5gw-homepage-post-2/

 

You can find it there.

 

 

They also stated that we can use units from either the codex or the index and if so, we would use the data slate from the appropriate book.

 

Where did they say that? The FAQ I linked states this: 

 

What’s the difference between a codex and an index book?

The indexes let you play with your Warhammer 40,000 army until the codex for your faction is released. The idea being that the rules for units in codexes eventually supersede the rules for them presented in the index books.

 

That would always make sure that the latest release has the latest version of a unit, which makes sense.

[Itsacon]

It's in this WHC post:

 

Blood Angels, Dark Angels and Space Wolves army lists in Index: Imperium 1 all let you use units from the Space Marines section of that book. If you own the new codex, you should feel free to use those same units’ Datasheets from that book instead, until your own codex comes out.

Edited July 27, 2017 by Itsacon

[dtse]

Warhammer community really isn't a source of rules I'm afraid lol

[Itsacon]

Why not?

 

It's an official outlet where GW communicates information to its player-base.

 

The 7th edition Dreadnought errata was published solely through the WHC page too, and was tournament legal.