8th Dark Angels Tactica and Tournament Guide (in progress)

[Grand Master Raziel]

I have a question: what works for people against Imperial Guard?  I tried to build a tailored anti-Guard list, and I still got tabled by turn 5 by my Guard playing friend.

 

Yeah, regular Whirlwinds underwhelm.  As far as damage outputs go, assault cannon Razorbacks reliably put out a lot more shots per turn, and are cheaper.  All Whirlwinds have going for them is range.

 

The Forge World Relic Whirlwind Scorpius isn't bad though.  3d3 shots and it can fire twice when it doesn't move.  Lacks the range of the vanilla Whirlwinds, but still a useful 48".

[Frater Cornelius]

Check this out: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340580-taking-on-the-astra-millitarum/

 

It may be a UM thread, but a lot of things apply to any SM faction.

[Chmur]

So, tournament over. In spoiler is the list that I took, below short recap of games and my (limited) review of units.

 

THE LIST

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Imperium - Dark Angels) [30 PL, 396pts] ++

+ HQ +

Librarian [6 PL, 112pts]: 1) Mind worm, 2) Aversion, Force sword, Plasma pistol

Techmarine on Bike [6 PL, 89pts]: Bolt pistol, Power axe, Servo-arm
. Space Marine bike: Twin boltgun

+ Troops +

Scout Squad [6 PL, 65pts]
. Heavy Weapon Scout: Heavy bolter
. 3x Scout (Boltgun)
. Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun

Scout Squad [6 PL, 65pts]
. Heavy Weapon Scout: Heavy bolter
. 3x Scout (Boltgun)
. Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun

Scout Squad [6 PL, 65pts]
. Heavy Weapon Scout: Heavy bolter
. 3x Scout (Boltgun)
. Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Imperium - Dark Angels) [77 PL, 1589pts] ++

+ HQ +

Azrael [9 PL, 180pts]

Primaris Lieutenants [4 PL, 74pts]
. Primaris Lieutenant: Master-crafted auto bolt rifle

+ Troops +

Tactical Squad [5 PL, 101pts]: 3x Space Marine
. Heavy Weapon Marine: Lascannon
. Space Marine Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Combi-flamer

Tactical Squad [5 PL, 93pts]: 3x Space Marine
. Space Marine Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Combi-plasma
. Special Weapon Marine: Plasma gun

Tactical Squad [5 PL, 101pts]: 3x Space Marine
. Heavy Weapon Marine: Lascannon
. Space Marine Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Combi-flamer

+ Fast Attack +

Ravenwing Darkshroud [7 PL, 149pts]: Assault cannon

+ Heavy Support +

Predator [9 PL, 202pts]: Twin lascannon
. Two lascannons: 2x Lascannon

Predator [9 PL, 201pts]: Predator autocannon
. Two lascannons: 2x Lascannon

+ Flyer +

Ravenwing Dark Talon [9 PL, 188pts]: 2x Hurricane bolter

+ Dedicated Transport +

Razorback [5 PL, 100pts]: Twin assault cannon

Razorback [5 PL, 100pts]: Twin assault cannon

Razorback [5 PL, 100pts]: Twin assault cannon

++ Total: [107 PL, 1985pts] ++

 

THE GAMES

Game 1: Fluffy Necrons with Vault; deployment put him in the middle, I had first turn. Acid rain in effect is quite okay if you have Azrael. 20-0 in Round 4

 

Game 2: Thousand Sons with Magnus, CSM, 2x5 Rubrics and Lord. Opposite corners deployment, special tournament mission ("neutral" Mortarion moving on scatter dice across the board, 6VP for kill + Relic in middle). I had first turn, got Magnus to 5 wounds remaining (2 Lascannons did 12 damage). Due to scouts denying room he deepstriked all his forces to shoot up Mortarion, got him to 2 wounds, charged with Magnus. Didn't kill Mortarion, but Mortarion killed Magnus. My turn I killed Mortarion and proceeded to clean table. 20-0

 

Game 3: Orcs. Absolute hard counter to the bubble in best case, special tournament mission (basically leave of your deployment zone or -VP and fight in the middle for +VP). I made mistakes with deployment, had no idea what I am playing against. 0-20

 

Game 4: Dark Angels. He had weaker bubble with dakka Dreads, LasRazorbacks. TH/SS Terminators and no Dakrshroud; Drop pod with Devs and Vets. I managed to seize, killed his sniper scouts and popped his Dark Talon (effectively sacrificing mine -but hey, he'd shoot it anyways Turn 1, so I at least soaked). Darkshroud bubble was superior to non Darkshroud bubble. 20-0

 

Game 5: Chaos with Lord of Skulls (guy from our local store, in practice games he wiped the floor with me every time). Went first, almost opened his LR turn 1, but with 1 wound left he had to disembark so no mobility on Posessed. Dark Talon took out 10 man Lascannon CSM squad and then it was race to get Lord of Skulls down before he hits me. I muffed up positioning and allowed Obliterators come down behind and take out Azrael and Darkshroud in round 1. Then my opponent made 3 crucial mistakes in row, allowing me to recover. Lord of Skulls charged gunline, took both Predators out. No explosion, no explosion - last CP reroll - 6, BOOM! Took last 2 wounds from the Lord of Skulls. During this mission there was orbital bombardment all the time, ended up with 3 Razorbacks on the table with no opponents, scoring was objective based only. 17-3

 

Ended up total 2nd in Game score, but won overall due to fullpaint.

 

UNITS

Predator with Autocannon seemed far superior to the Las predator. It seemed far more consistent in dishing out the damage. Sure, outside of the Lord of Skulls I didn't really meet anything that would require heavy Las fire, but I think Autocannon on both is my preference going forward. Yay for magnets.

 

Razorbacks with Assault Cannons if these things had 12" more range, they would be the most OP thing ever. With the current range they are just so damn good. Solid shooting platform to distract flanks, take out infantry and light vehicles. BRRRRRRRRRRRRT power.

 

Scouts with Bolters/HB - probably best combination of cheap units you are fine with throwing away denying space or just sitting whole game in one corner denying deepstrike. Can shoot something small if given the chance, but mostly just annoying factor.

 

Dark Talon - these were first 5 games I played with it. Amazing stuff. Bomb has been really good in 3 games out of 5, Rift Cannon is just beast with the additional damage and with the split fire rules, bolter batteries under wing can harass quite well, especially in Rapid Fire range. 

 

Tactical squads - Las + CombiFlamer

While I do not see better alternative than 2 Las out of the 3 squads, the CombiFlamers didn't really work for me. But that was probably more related to my very defensive "castle" playstyle where they didn't really get many chances to shine. Needs more testing

Plasma squad - this I will need to replace down the road. I took it because it was the 3rd squad I had in WYSIWYG fullpaint for Consecrators (didn't want to take green tacticals to break up the look of the army). Plasma cannons are better than they were due to being "fine" on normal profile, but it's what we call here "it does not offend, but neither inspires awe". They were just that. Solid OK choice.

 

DarkShroud - No idea. It was there to sit and do bubble, it sat there and did bubble. If focused, it tended to die despite the 4++ from Azrael. Then again, if it soaks a round full of shooting and rest of the army lives, for me it already paid for itself.

 

Thank you all who provided feedback and to Solrac for inspiration for this list by using something similar in the beginnings of 8th.

Edited October 31, 2017 by Chmur

[Wrath of Bruinen]

Congratulations on your win Chmur- looks like your last minute scout painting paid off!

 

It sounds like the tournament used special missions. How much do you think this influenced the outcome? Not to detract from your playing skill at all, I just wondered because I get the sense with the classic Azrael castle is that it can struggle with maelstrom missions

[Chmur]

Congratulations on your win Chmur- looks like your last minute scout painting paid off!

 

It sounds like the tournament used special missions. How much do you think this influenced the outcome? Not to detract from your playing skill at all, I just wondered because I get the sense with the classic Azrael castle is that it can struggle with maelstrom missions

 

Well, quite frankly I had one of the strongest lists there and was very lucky with my dice. Where were no tournament missions it was Open War cards which are so much fun and the random factor is just awesome. I do attribute my win more to the list than to my playing ability - I am still a newbie to Warhammer and I am pretty sure veterans would've played the list even tighter and better.

 

For these missions it's anyone's game - for example, the deployment really made it a bit complicated for the Necron as he had to deploy directly in front of me, no cover possible. Game 2 with Thousand sons - I think if my opponent woudln't go for the Mortarion and actually attacked me, it would be a bit tougher.

 

The Orcs - I really think the best I could do, in any case, any mission, would be to hope for a lucky tie. There is no way I would've been able to get more of it. The Orc pilot is one of the best Orc pilots there are in CZ/SK (or so I was told) and the mission basically dictated even if I survived, I would not get any points due to the VP award setup.

 

The CSM - I think the chance here was 50:50. It was extremely skewed by the bombardment each round and the mistakes we made. But I believe the list has the possibility to come on top.

 

There are definitely stronger iterations of the list available, as Solrac has moved onto these, but given the list limitations (no spam, only 1 special character), I believe this was the best possible set-up. The only changes I would make now going again is using 2 AutoCan/LasSponson Predators and upgrading the Techmarine to full harness.

Edited October 31, 2017 by Chmur

[Wrath of Bruinen]

Thanks for the response Chmur. I haven't played with the Open War cards - I might have to give them a go.

 

Congrats again!