8th Dark Angels Tactica and Tournament Guide (in progress)

[Frater Cornelius]

Do Assault Marines have the Fly keyword? If so, it is an arguement in their favour, as they can engage flying stuff in melee.

[Bother Cypher]

Do Assault Marines have the Fly keyword? If so, it is an arguement in their favour, as they can engage flying stuff in melee.

 

Yes, they gain the "Jump Pack" and "Fly" key word and the movement rating is changed to 12" if the squad is equipped with jump packs.

Edited July 11, 2017 by Turbosnake95

[dtse]

I'd say as many things in 8th your mileage will vary with any particular unit based in what the rest of your army is and what armies you play against. Everything is "viable" and has its place in 8th which is great. But in your particular army or against the people oh okay agaibst most commonly may or may not be that good for you

[Itsacon]

I think the fact that assault marines have fly is one of the awesome-est things in this edition.

 

I don't mean game wise (though it's pretty good), but because to me it draws up images of marines landing on a flyer's hull using mag-boots, jamming chainswords into engines, firing bolt pistols through cockpit windows, etc. And then just casually jumping backwards into nothing as the plane crashes into the ground.

[Gen.Steiner]

Itsacon - that is exactly why only units with the Fly keyword can assault fliers! Imagine being an Ork bomma pilot, 'appily skreemin' throo da bloo sky, droppin' lotsa bomms an' givin' it large wif da throttle an da shootas, only fer sum beakie wif a rokkit strapped to 'is back landin' on yer wing an' cutting it off wif 'is choppa!

Yoo gots ta admire da almost-Orkyness uv sumfin like dat.

 

*ahem*

Anyway, back to the pleasanter tones of Low Gothic...

Long ago in the dim and distant past of 4th Edition I ran a Deathwing list. I'm thinking about starting Deathwing again, and was wondering what - if any - advice could be given in particular for Deathwing armies?

I used to go by the mantra of:

Concentrate your fire;

Stay out of combat;
Believe in the God-Emperor!

Which I think generally holds true still. I've included a unit of Deathwing Knights and a unit of Assault Terminators, but I'm in two minds about them thanks to point 2 - Stay Out Of Combat.

Currently the list is:

Terminator Captain
Apothecary
Ancient (with lightning claws)
Champion

Terminator Libby with force sword
Terminator I.Chaplain

5 Knights
5 Terminators with A/C
5 Terminators with CML
5 Terminators with PC
5 Assault Terminators with HF, 3x TH/SS, LC

Two Vanguard Detachments, 5 CP

 

Thoughts?

[BlackTriton]

Dont forget the fly of the assault, being able to jump over vehicle and terrain to get into flammer and assault range has been usefull to me

I had no trouble keeping them out of sight behind terrain and/or vehicle.

They where great to support and complement biker, but they do not replace them.

 

On terminators, can't they be compared to TAC marine? A 5 man tda is about the same as 10 man tac with drop pod as far as points, shooting, wounds, number of attacks and deployment is concerned.

Edited July 11, 2017 by BlackTriton

[SvenONE]

AM and Bikes occupy the same battlefield role, which is why I think you'll see comparisons, but that's about the only thing they really have in common.  Their roles have certainly diverged from the previous edition.  With the meta shifting in 8th, I'm not so sure AM are worth it compared to other units we have.  

 

With the loss of scouting USR bikes have become more of a missile skirmisher unit than they used to be.  The same loss of that scout rule has left AM, Terminators, Scouts and Drop Pod-borne units as the only means to pressure back field units from the early stages of the game.  Even if AM can charge first turn against those units, is it enough to offset the things they lost from previous editions?  I'm not so sure, if the charge fails (which statistically it will more than it will succeed) you're most likely losing more units than you can take out with them.  

 

They aren't bad per se.  I think if you have them in your collection you can find a use for them in a model-heavy Greenwing list.

[Cpt. Bannockburn]

Long ago in the dim and distant past of 4th Edition I ran a Deathwing list. I'm thinking about starting Deathwing again, and was wondering what - if any - advice could be given in particular for Deathwing armies?

thoughts?

Well, it looks solid for a pure infantry list.

 

However, I have some comments:

• Belial is sooooo great with his rerolls, both in shooting and CC. Don't miss out on him by taking a Terminator Captain. He's also no slouch in CC, wounding on 2+ against non-vehicles; even more so with Warlord Trait 1
• The Champion is a bit lackluster, but give him a try to make up your own mind about him.
• The Ancient will love you and your terminators will love him back. However, to make him a bit more survivable, think about TH/SS on him.
• As an addendum to the last point: Don't avoid CC if you have two dedicated CC squads. This being said: Knights do the job better than purely assault kitted terminators, due to their multidamage, high strength/AP weapons. I would go down to one dedicated CC squad and make them shootier. Sprinkle TH/SS terminators liberally throughout your squads if you're so inclined to avoid evil AP wounds.
• The apothecary is a great corollary to this. He'll heal those wounded terminators and characters right back up. Remember, you can take multiple apothecaries.
• Remember that your storm bolters are most useful under 12" range. They will put out a good amount of hurt, but this also means that you're constantly in danger of being assaulted. If in doubt, assault first.

Edited July 11, 2017 by Cpt. Bannockburn

[dtse]

i think people underestimate the humble stormbolter.  FOr 2 points on any rhino/razorback, you gotta put it on!

[Gen.Steiner]

 

Long ago in the dim and distant past of 4th Edition I ran a Deathwing list. I'm thinking about starting Deathwing again, and was wondering what - if any - advice could be given in particular for Deathwing armies?

thoughts?

Well, it looks solid for a pure infantry list.

 

However, I have some comments:

• Belial is sooooo great with his rerolls, both in shooting and CC. Don't miss out on him by taking a Terminator Captain. He's also no slouch in CC, wounding on 2+ against non-vehicles; even more so with Warlord Trait 1
• The Champion is a bit lackluster, but give him a try to make up your own mind about him.
• The Ancient will love you and your terminators will love him back. However, to make him a bit more survivable, think about TH/SS on him.
• As an addendum to the last point: Don't avoid CC if you have two dedicated CC squads. This being said: Knights do the job better than purely assault kitted terminators, due to their multidamage, high strength/AP weapons. I would go down to one dedicated CC squad and make them shootier. Sprinkle TH/SS terminators liberally throughout your squads if you're so inclined to avoid evil AP wounds.
• The apothecary is a great corollary to this. He'll heal those wounded terminators and characters right back up. Remember, you can take multiple apothecaries.
• Remember that your storm bolters are most useful under 12" range. They will put out a good amount of hurt, but this also means that you're constantly in danger of being assaulted. If in doubt, assault first.

 

 

Thanks for the insight!

 

I tweaked it a bit:

 

The fourth Terminator Squad got made into a standard squad (albeit with a heavy flamer and two chainfists rather than just one chainfist) both to save points so I could shuffle some other bits around and also because I want to avoid combat as much as possible. I figure gearing them up for shooting will help remind me to avoid plunging them into the nearest unit of Incubi or what-have-you.

 

I am still in two minds about the lack of Dreadnoughts. I may drop the Knights and Champion to fit in a couple of quad-autocannon Dreadnoughts, because 16 S7 shots is not to be sniffed at by anyone's standards really.

[Grand Master Raziel]

I've done some messing around with lists built around Azrael - Deathwing Terminator Squad, Mortis Dread, Venerable Dread, Apothecary, Techmarine, and Dark Shroud.  The idea is to have a bubble in which stuff is absurdly hard to kill, while being dang killy in return.

 

So far, the Terminators have been underwhelming.  First game I used them, they got shot up and charged by Ultramarines Terminators and wiped out.  Second game, I had them charge a Defiler and they failed to impress.  Power fists doing d3 damage and chain fists doing a flat 2 is a far cry from the carnage they used to wreak - plus there's the -1 to hit with them.  Even with Azrael buffing them they weren't very effectual.

 

The Dreadnoughts, on the other hand, have done work.  My Venerable Dread tends to get blown up for some reason, but has put some pain on the opposition before going out, and the Mortis is like a walking Predator Annihilator that doesn't lose effectiveness as it gets wounded.  Having them in Azrael's bubble and having the Techmarine around to restore wounds keeps them going.

 

I think I might be over-concentrating the protection on those units.  It's tended to make my opponents go after other units instead.  I'll probably start spreading it out a bit more.

 

Oh, also, in one game I had Azrael go toe-to-toe with Marneus Calgar.  Two whole rounds of close combat later, and Azzy was still standing with one wound left.  Admittedly, I'd peeled a couple wounds off Manny with shooting before going in, but the result would have been the same even if he'd been fresh.  Calgar is a beast, too.  7 wounds, and takes half damage!

[Brother Worsey]

Apols - going back to the point about AM's being able to assault flyers once they have jump packs and the fly kw, where's the rule? Been looking for the last hour lol! Love jump marines, they look cool and it'd be a nice to surprise for my next opponent.

 

Gen Steiner's ork pondering is the funniest thing in a while too, had me sniggering like a schoolboy.

[Pvnisher]

Apols - going back to the point about AM's being able to assault flyers once they have jump packs and the fly kw, where's the rule? Been looking for the last hour lol! Love jump marines, they look cool and it'd be a nice to surprise for my next opponent.

 

Gen Steiner's ork pondering is the funniest thing in a while too, had me sniggering like a schoolboy.

It's in the airborne rule on planes.

[SvenONE]

i think people underestimate the humble stormbolter.  FOr 2 points on any rhino/razorback, you gotta put it on!

 

So true.  It's sort of funny to me, in this edition it's like the opposite of sticker shock.  Compared to the previous edition's points cost for a lot of items, the low cost of a lot of them is almost as if you question why they just wouldn't include the item as a stock armament and raise the overall cost 2 points!  Stormbolters for everyone!!

[oldmanlee]

What are people thoughts on a speeder heavy ravenwing list as some thing a bit out side the box?

[Frater Cornelius]

What are people thoughts on a speeder heavy ravenwing list as some thing a bit out side the box?

I think that regular Speeders are a bit overpriced. In theory, anyway. Javelin Speeders feom FW on the other hand are pretty solid. You one more toughness, three more wounds and same loadout as a Typhoon speeder for 18pts more I believe.

 

Double HF Speeder is also very good, seeing as the HF is an Assault weapon, thus the Speeder can move, advance and cover a massive distance, then shoot and autohit both of his HF for good damage.

[Gen.Steiner]

Gen Steiner's ork pondering is the funniest thing in a while too, had me sniggering like a schoolboy.

 

*bows*

 

I thank 'ee koindly, good zurr!

 

A quick note on Landspeeders - I've always been partial to the MM/HF combo myself, which gives you a nice mix of anti-tank and anti-infantry and can still fire at good effect even after a ridiculous move-advance turn.

 

Dual HF just seems a bit too short ranged and lacking in versatility to me, is all.

[Interrogator Stobz]

LS Typhoons with Sammy rerolls are brutal. I use MM with them fro three more chances at a D6 damage.

If you don't move they're amazing, if you do they're still worth it.

[Othniel's Blade]

 

*bows*

 

I thank 'ee koindly, good zurr!

 

Who let the moles into the strawberry cordial again?

[Frater Cornelius]

Played 2000p today. It was a Primaris army with a few sniper scouts, DS and LSV. The scouts did nothing of note, the Primaris failed so hard, they tore open reality. As funny as it sounds, the whole game against Necrons was carried by the LSV in terms of damage and the DS for staying power. If you have re-rolls, the LSV is pretty good, especially since you do not have to overcharge it to do 2 damage per shot. DS being good is nothing new though. The Primaris Librarian did a good job as well, but that is because Aversion really is an amazing power, especially in conjunction with the DS. Stay away from Primaris, if you want to have fun and/or win though.

[dtse]

 

 

as it stands, primaris are too expensive and limited right now.  They will probably get a lot in the coming releases, but right now, not good.  plus you can't transport them in anything

[Frater Cornelius]

A testament to the power of the DS that it can pull them along somehow despite their shortcomings.

[Gen.Steiner]

Not that I'm a user of Primaris, but it seems to me that if you use them carefully you can get a fair bit out of them. Inceptors are hilarious to drop in behind your enemy and can really take their attention away from other things.

[Itsacon]

Primaris lieutanants might have a place next to Company Masters. About the same cost, and a re-roll on Wound rolls (next to the Company Master's to hit re-roll).

[Frater Cornelius]

The Primaris Librarian as well. He is the same cost as a Librarian I believe but has the Primaris treatment of +1W/A. However, none of those fit in a transport you would usually find in a DA list. Maybe a Repulsor with 5 Hellblasters, 1 Lieutenant and a Librarian or 6 Hellblasters and 1 Lieutenant may be a solid inclusion for DA, as it offers high quality dakka.