Emperor's Children/Noise Marine Tactica

[heptus]

I'd really like to exploit our new Daemonic Ritual (or Arch-Daemonic Ritual for Zarakynel) cause it fits fluff! But....I cannot find any useful way so far. The rule looks very inferior in the 8th edition where most can do precise deepstrike (and possible subsequent charge).

[Zodd1888]

@Heptus - There is a great Daemons game from Miniwargaming that should show how good summoning is. It's a lot of Tzeentch but there is some potent Slaanesh he uses. I think summoning is a sleeper success.

[leth]

Summoning can be used to remove a few units worth of deployment from your army as well as adjust your needs based on the situation.  With the granularity of the point system you can basically plan out 2-3 different kit outs as you play the game or as needs are met.

 

You effectively can buy a sideboard for your army and that is something that cant be underestimated.

[Panzer]

It also helps getting first turn due having less units to deploy.

[Zodd1888]

You effectively can buy a sideboard for your army and that is something that cant be underestimated.

 

This. In the MWG video that line of thinking was exactly what I thought. Due to the inexpensive nature of demons, holding a few hundred points back isn't tremendously harmful to body count and allows greater adaptability for the force.

[heptus]

Okay you guys persuaded me. I agree with both advantages of (1) strategic versatility and (2) seizeing the initiative. I'm gonna leave a few hundred points for reinforcement of my Slaanesh daemons then ;)

 

What do you think about proper points? Maybe 223 pts? I can then summon either a large blob of daemonettes/seekers or the single KoS depending on the situation.

Edited June 25, 2017 by heptus

[leth]

I would Identify one of each type of unit that you might expect to summon, the range of power points that they cost, and then get as close as you can to have a value for power, and points that you would summon

 

For example:

 

2 Fiends is 4 power and 92 points.  A unit of Daemonettes is 5 power and a base of 90 points. a unit of seekers is 95 points, and a hellflayer is 95 points.  IF I set aside 95 points with a roll of 5+ I can summon a unit of: two fiends, 5 seekers, a hellflayer, or a unit of daemonettes.

 

So all of that versatility with only 95 points put aside.

Edited June 25, 2017 by leth

[Sersi]

Thx for the reponse lads.

 

 

The other issue is the Noise Marines really need a Rhino to get into charge range; for those 70 pts you could have another ~8 Daemonettes or a Herald to buff them to Strength 4.

But how do you get into charge with Daemonette with only a 7" mouvement ? I don't feel confident with summoning large squads of troops. 

 

True, but neither will be making first turn charges regardless.  So 2nd turn at best: move 7" + advance D6" + instrument 1", for 11.5" on average or up to 14" on a good roll. Only and inch less that before; you still get 8" guaranteed as opposed to the 9" or the 7th ed.  Here the loss of Fleet doesn’t matter much, since it only increased the average distance 3.5” to 4.17”; if you re-rolled 1's and 2's. 

 

Next turn you move 7" again then charge for an average of 10.5" + 1" from the instrument, and another 1" from not needing to be in base contact.  Plus you still have your command  point re-roll. If you need it, which will at minimum cases at least double your chances to make any charge greater than 8".  So running Daemonette up the board is virtually the same as before.  Run faster threatening units alongside them and force the enemy to make some tough choices. 

[DreamIsCollapsing]

Ok, with numbers it's easier to understand.

 

But i still struggle with Daemonette role in an Emperor Children army.

- We don't really need them to feel the mandatory troop (as we play EC to get lots of NM as troops).

- Aren't seeker better if u want to assault asap ? Or raptor/warp talon ? Or possessed in rhino/in a dreadclaw with Sorcerer + Herald of Slaanesh ?

 

For now i can only see daemonette as a cheap cover unit to prevent Teleporting unit (but maybe cultiste are better for that ?)

[Castigator]

Daemonettes are truly fearsome units.

I ran a unit of 28 in a game last night with the Masque, While they were eventually wiped out, they killed 60 Bloodletters over 2 turns of combat. They make a great screening unit marching forward with Noise Marines keeping pace behind them. They might not be that fast, but they have great synergy with Noise Marines, they make a great counter-charge unit and are capable of tearing most things apart if they have a Daemon Prince backing them up to re-roll 1's.

[WarriorFish]

Maybe a visit to the Daemons section of the B&C is in order, but Daemonettes are fairly cheap and will cause mayhem when they get into combat. Quicksilver means they will be chopping things up mercilessly whether they've charged or not and those 6s will be brutal. From experience I know that the leader re-roll of 1s is a huge boon so a DP to support them as Castigator suggests will do wonders for their killing power.

 

So they'll function well enough to prevent Deep Strike, as any unit would that's on the cheaper side but they'd be a nasty counter-assault prospect too. Perhaps that is a good use for them especially if you're running slightly more expensive Noise Marine squads that would like the escort that should help them keep shooting unimpeded?

[DreamIsCollapsing]

Thx for this feedback. So we surely need more testing games, but a pack of full sonic weapon Noise Marine + Daemonette seems to be the best core for an E.C. army. With great antihorde power, pretty good defence against any assault/teleporting units and a little antiTank firepower for the cherry. 

 

A Emperor's Children Daemon prince seems good for the 1's reroll for Daemonette & Noise Marine.

Not sure about the Mask. Don't you think a Slaanesh Herald should perform better ? With an Herald Daemonette are S4, wich is a great cut-off for GET and MEQ, and the Daemon prince go S8 (wich is great against MEQ and potential Monstruous Creatures/Tank/dread).

[heptus]

Uh...actually Quicksilver Swiftness aren't activated when you got charged

 

If the enemy has units that have charged, or that have a similar ability, then alternate choosing units to fight with, starting with the player whose turn is taking place

[Castigator]

Heralds are very good as well. I was using a Herald on a Seeker Chariot, the Masque and a Daemon Prince. My Daemonettes were hitting on 2's (the Masque), re-rolling 1's (DP) and were strength 4 (Herald). They're not cheap, but Slaanesh's dangly bits, they bring the pain 

[DreamIsCollapsing]

Uh...actually Quicksilver Swiftness aren't activated when you got charged

 

If the enemy has units that have charged, or that have a similar ability, then alternate choosing units to fight with, starting with the player whose turn is taking place

 

It is. 

 

In fact Quicksilver swiftness "cancel" the bonus of the enemy charge. For eg is your running 2 units of Daemonettes and get charge by a Tyranid Prince and 2 units of Genestealer : 

- Tyranid players choose to start the fight with the Prince

- They you can activate the Daemonette to fight before the Genestealer (who should normaly go first as they charged this turn)

And so on..

 

 

Heralds are very good as well. I was using a Herald on a Seeker Chariot, the Masque and a Daemon Prince. My Daemonettes were hitting on 2's (the Masque), re-rolling 1's (DP) and were strength 4 (Herald). They're not cheap, but Slaanesh's dangly bits, they bring the pain 

 

That's nasty for sure. But it may be more appropriate for a full daemonic slaaneshi orgy army. In a SMC/Slaanesh Daemon mix it's maybe too much point just for daemonette no ? (We still need points for Noise Marine and sonic weapon, and lascanon or other anti-tank models, and eventually an assault force as raptor or decimator). 

[Castigator]

You could well be right about it being more appropriate for a full on Daemon army, I'm just sharing my experiences with the few games I've played to give people ideas.

So far, my limited experiences of 8th have shown that, (sadly) just like 7th, Daemons are better than CSM's in games. I've been running a half and half Slaanesh army (because for as long as it lasts, I can enjoy my Slaanesh Daemonkin army) and unfortunately, the Daemons have been the outstanding units every game so far.

The Noise Marines have been great, but Predators, Maulerfiends and the Heldrake have been pretty bad so far for me.

But it's early days yet, and I've always preferred Chaos Marines with a smattering of Daemons rather than Daemons with a smattering of Chaos Marines, so come hell or high water, I will make them work   

[heptus]

Hey Castigator, I hesitate to ask this cause it may be bit off the topic, but how do you deal with enemy vehicles when you play pure Slaanesh daemon army? I'm struggling with this issue recently - and this is the biggest reason for me to consider hiring some ECs for the anti-vehicle job.

 

And thanks for sharing your experience ;)

Edited June 27, 2017 by heptus

[Castigator]

I haven't played with a pure Daemon army in 8th. So far I've been relying on my Daemon Prince and Herald's Smite (as well as their close combat ability) and my Daemonettes in combat. The Blastmasters usually lend support in this area along with Predators (which may very well be replaced with Havocs soon).

If I was relying on pure Daemons, I would be looking to spam Smite (Heralds) and two large units of Daemonettes to do the majority of the lifting.

[leth]

So played my first team tournament game with my noise marines and HOLY crap were they good.  Couple of highlights

 

 

One unit of Noise marines got wiped out by Nightbringer, who then proceeded to kill him in return. (Got 3 wounds through then 2,3,3) hilarity ensued.

2 blast masters got 3 rolls of 3 wounds in a roll, doing 9 wounds to a unit. Blastmasters are really REALLY good. 

 

A couple amazing things that we found out: The targeting restriction for characters only applies in the shooting phase.

 

When they killed my noise marines in the fight/psychic phase I was able to shoot at their characters without restriction. If I had positioned better then I would have been able to snipe their buff characters.    

 

A Daemon Prince is mandatory for the re-roll 1's in addition to prescience.  Hitting on twos re-rolling ones with blast masters is sooooo good.   They are also a solid counter assault unit for Sonic marines.  I used heroic intervention quite often. 

Edited July 3, 2017 by leth

[Panzer]

I'd love to play some EC games, but I promised myself to wait until we know for sure whether we will get a EC release or not before buying any CSM models. >.<

[DreamIsCollapsing]

So played my first team tournament game with my noise marines and HOLY crap were they good.  Couple of highlights

 

 

One unit of Noise marines got wiped out by Nightbringer, who then proceeded to kill him in return. (Got 3 wounds through then 2,3,3) hilarity ensued.

2 blast masters got 3 rolls of 3 wounds in a roll, doing 9 wounds to a unit. Blastmasters are really REALLY good. 

 

A couple amazing things that we found out: The targeting restriction for characters only applies in the shooting phase.

 

When they killed my noise marines in the fight/psychic phase I was able to shoot at their characters without restriction. If I had positioned better then I would have been able to snipe their buff characters.    

 

A Daemon Prince is mandatory for the re-roll 1's in addition to prescience.  Hitting on twos re-rolling ones with blast masters is sooooo good.   They are also a solid counter assault unit for Sonic marines.  I used heroic intervention quite often. 

 

The Noise marine rules is soon to be patched imo (with the Ynnari soulburst). RAW they can snipe a caractere. RAI a caracter can't be snipe by shooting whatever the phase expect from sniper or overwatch shoot ofc. 

Nevertheless, good to ear Noise Marine are good. This rules seems amazingly fun to use. 

 

A Daemon Prince is mandatory for the re-roll 1's in addition to prescience.  Hitting on twos re-rolling ones with blast masters is sooooo good.   They are also a solid counter assault unit for Sonic marines.  I used heroic intervention quite often. 

 

 

Did you mix with slaanesh daemon to need a daemon prince over a chaos lord ? 

[leth]

 

So played my first team tournament game with my noise marines and HOLY crap were they good.  Couple of highlights

 

 

One unit of Noise marines got wiped out by Nightbringer, who then proceeded to kill him in return. (Got 3 wounds through then 2,3,3) hilarity ensued.

2 blast masters got 3 rolls of 3 wounds in a roll, doing 9 wounds to a unit. Blastmasters are really REALLY good. 

 

A couple amazing things that we found out: The targeting restriction for characters only applies in the shooting phase.

 

When they killed my noise marines in the fight/psychic phase I was able to shoot at their characters without restriction. If I had positioned better then I would have been able to snipe their buff characters.    

 

A Daemon Prince is mandatory for the re-roll 1's in addition to prescience.  Hitting on twos re-rolling ones with blast masters is sooooo good.   They are also a solid counter assault unit for Sonic marines.  I used heroic intervention quite often. 

 

The Noise marine rules is soon to be patched imo (with the Ynnari soulburst). RAW they can snipe a caractere. RAI a caracter can't be snipe by shooting whatever the phase expect from sniper or overwatch shoot ofc. 

Nevertheless, good to ear Noise Marine are good. This rules seems amazingly fun to use. 

 

A Daemon Prince is mandatory for the re-roll 1's in addition to prescience.  Hitting on twos re-rolling ones with blast masters is sooooo good.   They are also a solid counter assault unit for Sonic marines.  I used heroic intervention quite often. 

 

 

Did you mix with slaanesh daemon to need a daemon prince over a chaos lord ? 

 

 

Nope, just the regular marines daemon princes.  They dont get the daemon specific buffs but their re-roll 1's applies to both armies. 

[Kierdale]

My noise marines did very well last weekend too. While my autocannon havocs only manage to take two sounds off a Wolf rhino the blastmaster I shot at it next shredded it in one guitar solo.

And Music of the Apoc got me at least three more kills :tu:

 

Ten more noise marines now in the building queue...

[DreamIsCollapsing]

Nope, just the regular marines daemon princes.  They dont get the daemon specific buffs but their re-roll 1's applies to both armies.

 

 

No i meant : did you mix daemon and Emperor Children in your army to get a daemon prince (for reroll 1 to hit for daemon and emperor's children).

[DraneceusRex]

 

So played my first team tournament game with my noise marines and HOLY crap were they good.  Couple of highlights

 

 

One unit of Noise marines got wiped out by Nightbringer, who then proceeded to kill him in return. (Got 3 wounds through then 2,3,3) hilarity ensued.

2 blast masters got 3 rolls of 3 wounds in a roll, doing 9 wounds to a unit. Blastmasters are really REALLY good. 

 

A couple amazing things that we found out: The targeting restriction for characters only applies in the shooting phase.

 

When they killed my noise marines in the fight/psychic phase I was able to shoot at their characters without restriction. If I had positioned better then I would have been able to snipe their buff characters.    

 

A Daemon Prince is mandatory for the re-roll 1's in addition to prescience.  Hitting on twos re-rolling ones with blast masters is sooooo good.   They are also a solid counter assault unit for Sonic marines.  I used heroic intervention quite often. 

 

The Noise marine rules is soon to be patched imo (with the Ynnari soulburst). RAW they can snipe a caractere. RAI a caracter can't be snipe by shooting whatever the phase expect from sniper or overwatch shoot ofc. 

Nevertheless, good to ear Noise Marine are good. This rules seems amazingly fun to use. 

Doesn't look like that's the case with the FAQ. In fact, seems like it reinforced their option to be able to snipe characters. Praise the Dark Prince!!!