Astra Multi-armum

[Karinon]

Genestealer Cults have the option to run a pure Astra Militarum Detachment for every pure Genestealer Cult Detachment. I see a lot of people aren't happy with the changes to GSC with 8th but I'm excited about the chance to finally build a Cult Baneblade.

 

I see AM providing the cult with some staying power and heavy weaponry while the Cult provides AM with deadly assault units.

 

Obviously all the guardsmen will be converted with cult heads.

 

Anyone else planning on running Cult Guard?

 

At the moment I have:

 

CULT:

2x Overkill sets

3x Neophyte sets

3x Acolyte sets

1x Goliath

50+ Genestealers

 

And:

 

AM:

3x Leman Russ

2x Demolishers

1x Basilisk

1x Baneblade

1x Shadowsword

7x Infantry squads

3x Heavy Weapon Squads

Some commanders

1x Malcador

1x Command squad

2x Chimera

1x Hellhound

 

What sort of things should I be looking at next to build up a decent combined force?

[Aothaine]

Might take awhile to get a response here. I'll take a look at the codex tonight and see what I can think of for Genestealer Cults to use.

 

I looked through it... man it is going to take me awhile to understand how this army works now. It is pretty crazy. 

Edited June 22, 2017 by Aothaine

[Vel'Cona]

That's a pretty solid collection of models, I'd say.  If you really wanted to expand a unit of Sentinels/Armoured Sentinels could bring some excellent mobile firepower, but otherwise you've got a great core of a GSC/IG combined forces here.

 

Also, listen not to the naysayers.  GSC are going to be just as if not more powerful under 8th edition rules with just a bit of tweaking.  I think some players are just disappointed they won't be the ridiculous meta-screw they were at the tail end of 7th edition.

[Lord Marshal]

Amusingly, they can actually take Celestine since she has the <Astra Militarum> keyword.

 

How well that would go down with your opponent... well. 

[Karinon]

Actually Celestine doesn't have the AM keyword.

 

Basically we can take:

All the Astra Militarum list.

Commissars.

Tempestus Scions.

All the Militarum Auxillia.

Valkyries.

Tech Priest Enginseers.

Uriah Jacobus.

Ministorum Priests.

Primaris/ Wyrdvane psykers + astropaths.

 

Any Forge World units with the AM keyword- stuff like Macharius/ Malcadors/ Rapiers/ Tarantulas/ Vendettas/ Crassus/ Praetors/ Medusas/ Bombards/ Valdors etc...

Edited June 21, 2017 by Karinon

[Aothaine]

Took a deeper look and Brood Brothers is the keyword that is going to put Genestealer Cults in the Top Tier imho. They are already a powerhouse in melee. But you match that with the cheap and limitless firepower of the Astra Militarum and you are set for victory. I may be shelving my Custodes idea for the time being to start with these guys. Holy cow do they have so many options!

 

Just look at this combo!

 

Vanguard Detachment

 

Patriarch - 150

 

Patriarch - 150

 

Patriarch - 150

 

 

Purestrain Genestealers x10 - 180

 

Purestrain Genestealers x10 - 180

 

Purestrain Genestealers x10 - 180

 

This is only 990pts. Leaving you 1010 points for your AM Detachment which starts on the board thrashing your opponent with what AM does best. Ranged fire. As you blow a few holes through your opponent you can then add to that chaos with Cult Ambush bringing your Patriarchs with their 10-man Genestealer bubbles so they make it into the fight phase. Added bonus with the psyhic phase.

 

Going to need to devour the Astra Militarum forums tomorrow and get a good idea what to field for 1010pts. I don't expect the Genestealers to do much and they are an expensive bubble but if they make it into combat the Patriarch can buff them pretty decently. I would expect Rending Claws to be the go-to weapon for them. I can see a use for the talons against horde armies though.

 

But yeah... Brood Brotherhood is where it is at. It solves a very difficult problem that Astra Militarum have, the fight phase. Hell you don't even need to cult ambush. You could just as easily go with Primus/Magus and bolster the lines with Cult units. Though you will end up in a similar situation if you did that. Still a bunch more to look into, including the vehicles though. 

[NatBrannigan]

So, I'm a Guard Player and I'm looking at this the other way round from you guys. Maybe we can get our knowledge to meet in the middle? Currently Guard are great, they even have some strong(ish) melee units now. I've recently finished building a Volcanic themed board with lots of mining equipment and buildings though. I wanted to add some Conscripts to my Guard army and though the Mining cultists (with different heads) would be spot on.

 

THEN I learnt about the Cult taking Guard thing and though with some minor Genestealer additions I could turn 1 army into 2! What are Cultists bringing to the table? Are the Rockgrinder transports any good? How does the Ambush rule work? What is the actual wording of the rule that lets cultist take a Guard detachment?

[Aothaine]

I don't have much experience with the Genestealer Cults yet. Still theory crafting on how I want to proceed though. Building 4th company for Dark Angels at the moment before the Dark Vengeance minis are all gone.

 

The cultists bring melee specialists into an army that is specialized in ranged combat. You can take a full detachment of guard as far as I'm aware and it gets the Genestealer keyword meaning your army will still be considered one faction, forgot the word for it atm. You still get all the nifty rules from the IG detachment as far as I can tell. So you still get orders. You have access to a lot of what makes the Astra Militarum good this edition. 

 

Genestealer Cults are, imho, going to be the top or real damn close to the top competitive army in 8th ed. With the re-balancing of the rules, changes to assaults, changes to pretty much everything else... it just puts the Genestealer Cults in a really good position to dominate. Though I say that, this army will be really difficult to use. You will need extensive knowledge of the game, opponent's units, and deployment tactics with a keen mind on ignoring the kill in favor of objectives in order to play this force to it's fullest. But once you master those components people are going to have a real difficult time dealing with them. 

 

Genestealer Cults have TONS of options. As they pull from their list and the Astra Militarum list. They most likely have the most options out of any battle forged (I remembered!) army in the game outside of just running Imperium or Chaos as your keyword.

Edited July 13, 2017 by Aothaine

[Vel'Cona]

Genestealer Cults have TONS of options. As they pull from their list and the Astra Militarum list. They most likely have the most options out of any battle forged (I remembered!) army in the game outside of just running Imperium or Chaos as your keyword.

 

I agree on almost all points, though I want to emphasize that Guard allied with IG should be converted appropriately to reflect their allegiances, IMHO.  While it's fine to smash the armies together for fun, I think it's not in the spirit of the game to do so long-term.  It's a pretty easy matter to do a bit of conversion work with existing models (assuming they're not too far-gone), though I do see the background arguments for running "pure" IG alongside GSC, I'd just prefer for that not to be the majority case.

[Sawtooth]

I actually disagree on this point. The brood brothers are outwardly human and indistinguishable, and they join regiments and pdfs to infiltrate. Staying low key and looking like a normal regiment makes sense to me on the tabletop. Although I still plan to have a common color and identical bases for my IG and Genestealers.

[NatBrannigan]

It's the same with me. When I play as a cult army, my Genestealer cultists are the "helpless" miners who have asked for protection from a local Guard regiment. A few psychic powers, some infiltration and some good all fashion stealing on genes later and they have a partially confused Guard Regiment doing their dirty work for them.

 

When I play as Guard my cultists become actually helpless miners who have been conscripted (so will be run as Conscripts obv) in to help defend a mining world. My board and terrain tie it all together nicely.

 

Are the cultists (Neophyte is it? The ones that look basically human but are wearing mining suits, carry mining lasers etc) any good in combat? And can they ambush?

[Oem]

Since brood brothers are mostly non mutated humans I feel like "astra militarum detachment" should be light on visible mutations. I guess genestealers would infiltrate leadership and high command of some regiment or pdf, then maybe those would spread curse to some lower ranking officers. Since I think there are many citizens and soldiers in Imperium that are somewhat unhappy with current situation, they could be easily brainwashed and made rebelious against Imperial overlords...   In the end we have alien commanders in astra militarum regiment commanding mutinious soldiers. I'm thinking, light on mutated (hybrids heads) convertions - mostly officers, couple of rank and file, heavy on iconography - banners, insignia, markings.

 

Neophytes - stats like guardsmen but bigger squads up to 20, some additional equipment and no "orders" like in astra militarum. I feel they are really squishy without support of commanders, and could be one shotted even first turn. With ambush they can bring their firepower to some unexpected place and again without commanders wont fare well in close combat... 

Edited July 12, 2017 by Oem

[Stercus]

If you wanted the utility to use the Guard units as part of a genestealer army or as a force in their own right, my approach would be to keep all the troopers as normal imperial guard, and then make alternate sergeants/officers for when you're running them as part of a cult.

[NatBrannigan]

Resurrecting this slightly if y'all don't mind.

 

I've now "finished" my Imperial Guard army (so we ever truly finish an army...?) and want to add a few Cult units to my collection so I can run my Guard as a Cult army on occasion. Now I already have a unit of 20 Conscripts that I've used the Neophyte Hybrids for as they are conscripted miners so the models work perfectly with a quick headswap. I've got these armed with autoguns.

 

I'm going to buy another box of 10 Hybrids to make up with some cult specific options, mining lasers, stubbers, Icons etc to add to my conscripts when playing as a cult army so I can run them as a proper Hybrid squad. How would you model those 10 to give the best squad loadouts?

 

What else would you add to make a decent Cult army? An Iconbearer? Patriarch? Purestrains? Acolytes or Metamorphs? A Broodlord? Are the transports worth taking?

 

Basically if you could add about 500 points of Genestealer cults to an Imperial Guard Army, what would you go for?

 

Cheers!

[Many in Arms One in Mind]

I plan to blue stuff clone the tempestuous scions berry and then and sculpt them over the 'ridged bumps' on all the GS upgrade kit heads, I'll do this for all my AM troops as I wish to use the same units as an ally to my original SM successor army. the way I see it these troops could be hidden in plane site or my SM army knows about the GC insurrection and are planning to use these traitorous troops as a meat shields. 

Edited October 1, 2017 by Many in Arms One in Mind

[Sircyn]

The best things the Cult has to offer is the purestrains with Patriarch. So I'd fill your points with them to start with, it'll give your guard a nasty sting in assault while your big guns cover the gribblies.

 

As I play more and more games with my Cult I find myself dropping more and more cult units to replace them with guard units. I'll soon be running just a guard list with some genestealers..

[NatBrannigan]

The Neophyte Hybrids are no good? I've already got 30 of them to use as conscripts so was hoping for two units of 15, ambushing supported by a Magus or Primus. I'm not expecting great things but how bad are they? Worth getting into combat with anything with a few of the mining weapons?

 

I do love a genestealer so was going for 16 (two boxes) and Patriarch, but was hoping to support them with said Neophytes and maybe a squad of Acolytes in a Rock Grinder?

 

By the way, nothing wrong with running an all guard army!

[Sircyn]

Its not that they're bad, they're just not cost effective. I may be skewed as they're just so bad in power level games. 5 Power level gets you 10 neophytes or 40 conscripts.

 

Ten power level gets you 50 conscripts and the characters you need to make them fearsome.. or 20 neophytes.

 

The unit itself is not as bad for the points, load up on mining weapons and plink away. Ambushing onto Tactical objectives, sitting on the home objectives or lurking into the enemy backfield can put them to use. They're so very fragile though they'll evaporate if your opponent looks at them. They lack leadership mitigation so any casualties you take will be added to by the subsequent morale test.

 

I found 15 was a good number for bodies/morale/footprint. Using them as a shield for your Magus to get into range with his powers is a good idea.

 

I wouldn't waste a Primus on them though as he should be chaperoning a unit of purestrains, aberrants or acolytes to make use of his abilities.

[NatBrannigan]

I'm thinking 2 units of 15 Neophytes with assorted goodies and a unit of Acolytes in a Rockgrinder to make up the 3 troops needed for a Battalion, then a Patriarch, Magus, Primus and 16 Purestrains for sheer nastiness. Add that to my Guard and it should be good fun! The only other thing I want is to make am alternative "Genestealered" member of my Guard Colonels command squad with a terrible disguise to call "Hugh Man" (See Futurama for more details!)

[Aothaine]

Its not that they're bad, they're just not cost effective. I may be skewed as they're just so bad in power level games. 5 Power level gets you 10 neophytes or 40 conscripts.

 

Ten power level gets you 50 conscripts and the characters you need to make them fearsome.. or 20 neophytes.

 

The unit itself is not as bad for the points, load up on mining weapons and plink away. Ambushing onto Tactical objectives, sitting on the home objectives or lurking into the enemy backfield can put them to use. They're so very fragile though they'll evaporate if your opponent looks at them. They lack leadership mitigation so any casualties you take will be added to by the subsequent morale test.

 

I found 15 was a good number for bodies/morale/footprint. Using them as a shield for your Magus to get into range with his powers is a good idea.

 

I wouldn't waste a Primus on them though as he should be chaperoning a unit of purestrains, aberrants or acolytes to make use of his abilities.

 

Something to keep in mind here is that playing by PL is not supposed to make things even. When you get to the point where you are comparing unit strengths you really need to move over to the point system. It is much more balanced even if it still has it's flaws.

[NatBrannigan]

Looking at all the fantastic Guard Regimental rules that are coming out, i'm hoping for a set of Regiment rules for Cult guide in the Genestealer book when it comes out, that you can only use when your AM detachment is used alongside a GSC detachment as brood brothers!