HQ Options in 8th

[norngahl]

Anyone already got an idea what to take?

 

Thought about running a cheap chaos lord with powerblade and plasma pistol or combi plasma.

 

8th is kinda deadly with all the armour save modifiers, so I don't expect the HQs to live long if the enemy concentrates on killing them.

 

My build is a very cheap allrounder to run around with regukar chaos marines or a unit of chosen, adding a small extra punch without getting expensive. Wiper unit for small/weak targets, will be in a dreadclaw Prefer to shoot real threats or send a specialist like a renegade knight lancer into the really tough stuff.

 

What are your thoughts on characters so far?

[Kierdale]

If I'm reading gossip correctly a jump pack sorcerer to drop in with raptors or warp talons and use Warp Time to get them into combat is a good option.

 

I have a raptor lord with daemon blade -which will have to remain a power sword until we get a codex- and a plasma pistol, which I think will see use. Or I could always use him as the above sorcerer!

 

I haven't pulled the arms off my fistyclaws biker lord yet as I can't decide what to replace the claws with.

[Midnightmare]

Abaddon for me, I really like the look of his rules. Likely backed up with a Warptime Terminator Sorcerer or a Daemon Prince.

[Sonoftherubric21]

Ill probably follow the above example, Chaos Lords are very cheap and have great stat-lines so it wont hurt to use them as support for either Chosen coming out of a rhino or land raider, or raptors / Warp talons diving in to engage. 

 

I would imagine come the undivided chaos dex that Daemon Weapons will make a reappearance. That will help, till then power swords it is! 

[Dallas Drake]

I see HQ as cheap buffs. I'm currently taking a cheap plasma pistol/fist Lord on foot to re-roll 1s. If I was going melee I'd take a Dark Apostle. Sorcerer is good too if you need Warptime or Prescience. I think the way the new edition is going is that Lords are force multipliers, buffing units to do damage and not one man wrecking balls as before, as such I think no more than 1/10th of your points should go into HQs. I also think troops are finished, there is absolutely NO reason to take CSMs in the new edition. Cultists get you cheap wounds and can blob which is good buffed with a DA, but CSMs serve no purpose now that obsec is gone. Points per wound is more effective. Basically, grab a cheap HQ then load up on as many cheap wounds as possible while taking as much nasty stuff as you can. Sorry if I've gone a little off topic, but it's just something that has stuck me over the last 5-6 games I've played.

[the jeske]

kind of a depends on the type of army. If your playing "chaos" as a faction or marines. In general cheap is good[as always], the sorc with warp time can catapult one unit which is a very risky thing to do[not the catapulting thing, the one thing] in 8th. I still think that the chaos chappy and techy do not bring enough utility. demon princes are good[although the demon demon princes are better, so it is more a matter of points if you take the csm ones].

[Closet Skeleton]

Catapult Sorcerers are bad warlords because they will die.

 

Chaos Lords can hide to deny a victory point while giving out rerolls.

 

Heretic Astartes Daemon princes are way better than Chaos Daemons ones. Having less wounds is a bonus because they can hide almost as well as a mortal lord. Princes are best if you want to mix daemon and mortal units.

 

Neither lords nor daemon princes are tough enough to be worth risking against enemies that can do multiple wounds in melee.

 

A big unit of chaos space marines is an all right body guard if you can keep them in cover. Cultists would be better points for wounds wise.

[adreal]

I like my daemon Prince on foot, he supports my csm (yep I like them bolter boys) and is pretty choppy in close combat

 

He doesn't need prescience as much, so maybe infernal gaze is a good option for him

[ChazSexington]

I really, really like Huron, having run him twice, and being MvP both times. The ability to cast Warptime is fantastic, and then follow up with Smite really helps. He's a monster in CC as well with Tyrant's Claw!

 

Cypher is too expensive for what he does - he needs to effectively be within charging range of the unit he's shooting at, and because he doesn't have CC weapons, he doesn't do anything unless it's your turn. 

[Brother Aiwass]

kind of a depends on the type of army. If your playing "chaos" as a faction or marines. In general cheap is good[as always], the sorc with warp time can catapult one unit which is a very risky thing to do[not the catapulting thing, the one thing] in 8th. I still think that the chaos chappy and techy do not bring enough utility. demon princes are good[although the demon demon princes are better, so it is more a matter of points if you take the csm ones].

I don't know, the chappy buffing zerkers looks pretty solid.

[norngahl]

I mean, that is how it should have been all the time. A 3++ char with EW and Thunderhammer often nuked a Super Heavy / Walker on his own. Now you got to think twice where you throw your general into combat.

 

Don't know, just feels like a small chaos lord with power weapon and combi weapon for about 100 points will do it just fine. He buffs his unit, adds some damage, can take some damage in return (from soft units) and leaves a good chunk of points for the truely nasty stuff (vehicles / flyers / low). Sure, Abbadon and Khârn are excellent killers, but they do it for a nice price tag. In return, a contemptor with soulburner and chainfists will wipe them out in a single round of combat.

[oreaper84]

I am leaning towards a cheap-o lord with ppistol and psword in a rhino with my zerkers (2 or 3 ppistols in here too) seems like a real solid option with a rather small price tag. I agree that in general HQ's aren't wrecking balls of old Abby and Khârn being the exceptions. I am using mine more utility than ever as force multipliers. Also using that logic i am really excited about both the apostle and smith. Apostle for CC goodness reroll, and the smith has all the dakka i could want in a front line character with a flamer, melta, and combi melta that can all pick different targets!! (oh and he fixes vehicles/mortal wounds enemy vehicles too!). The smith is def on my to be purchase list.

 

As the new edition meta evolves I my change my tune, but that's what i am having fun with right now.

[Castigator]

demon princes are good[although the demon demon princes are better, so it is more a matter of points if you take the csm ones].

What is it that you prefer about the Daemon version of the Prince?

 

I think the CSM version is better. It's under 10 wounds, so can't be targeted as easily. It has better leadership and it's abilities affect CSM units as well as Daemon units. What am I missing about the Daemon version?

[Panzer]

Since I can't possibly decide....Chaos Prince, Chaos Lord and a Sorcerer...maybe two Sorcerer? :D

 

demon princes are good[although the demon demon princes are better, so it is more a matter of points if you take the csm ones].

What is it that you prefer about the Daemon version of the Prince?

I think the CSM version is better. It's under 10 wounds, so can't be targeted as easily. It has better leadership and it's abilities affect CSM units as well as Daemon units. What am I missing about the Daemon version?

 

Yeah I prefer the CSM one better as well. 10 wound characters suck!

[Castigator]

The CSM Prince is the standout option IMO. It has the Lord's re-roll 1's to hit ability and is a Psyker as well.

[Panzer]

If it had like 12 or 14 wounds I'd prefer the Daemon one, but 10 wounds is just the number to make a character vulnerable without making him actually stronger than a similar 8 or 9 wound character.

[Aothaine]

I think Cypher has uses in some lists. I know this is a chaos forum but I'm thinking about running Cypher as my warlord in a Custodes army. They don't have a HQ option, Cypher can deny victory points on a 2+ and can bounce around behind the lines of the Custodes while shooting into combat from the back line. 

 

He is also quick and I think will work very well in blobs of cultists with a DA. 

 

I wouldn't count Cypher out yet. Just because he doesn't have a force multiplier doesn't mean that he won't be a threat.

 

As for other chaos HQ options. I think the cheaper your HQ is the better. Most of them are force multipliers now and need to be viewed as such. There are a few exceptions to this rule and those are mainly the named HQ options. The named HQ options fill specific roles and need to have lists tailored around them and so will be different than the lists that work best with un-named HQ options.

[Sonoftherubric21]

I think Cypher has uses in some lists. I know this is a chaos forum but I'm thinking about running Cypher as my warlord in a Custodes army. They don't have a HQ option, Cypher can deny victory points on a 2+ and can bounce around behind the lines of the Custodes while shooting into combat from the back line. 

 

He is also quick and I think will work very well in blobs of cultists with a DA. 

 

I wouldn't count Cypher out yet. Just because he doesn't have a force multiplier doesn't mean that he won't be a threat.

 

As for other chaos HQ options. I think the cheaper your HQ is the better. Most of them are force multipliers now and need to be viewed as such. There are a few exceptions to this rule and those are mainly the named HQ options. The named HQ options fill specific roles and need to have lists tailored around them and so will be different than the lists that work best with un-named HQ options.

 

I agree with this entirely; He is NOT a force multiplier, but I can see many a scenario where he can easily make back the 110 you spend on him, or just cause shenanigans the entire game. 

 

3 bolt pistols, and 2 plasma (super charge with NO negative) hitting on 2+, re rolling every shot missed, and also can fire while advancing/retreating..... Fire at someone, charge the buggers and fight them by beating them over the head them empty the magazine into their face the following turn in shooting.  I cant help but see him Gun-Kata'ing his way across the board diving in and out of various combats. 

 

I mean.....It feels like a dang good deal; Added hilarity for any trolls here ( I mean this in an endearing way!) .........take Cypher, Make your warlord, enemy kills Cypher after much frustration on a 2+ he does NOT concede slay the warlord our count for victory conditions, denying your opponent what could be a game-winning point 84% of the time! 

 

Movement 7, 2+ to hit, and Blazing Weapons is just hilarious and fantastic. I like em! 

Edited June 21, 2017 by Sonoftherubric21

[elbianc]

If I'm reading gossip correctly a jump pack sorcerer to drop in with raptors or warp talons and use Warp Time to get them into combat is a good option.

 

I have a raptor lord with daemon blade -which will have to remain a power sword until we get a codex- and a plasma pistol, which I think will see use. Or I could always use him as the above sorcerer!

 

I haven't pulled the arms off my fistyclaws biker lord yet as I can't decide what to replace the claws with.

I made that this week in my first 8th edition game

 

6 raptors, 2 meltas, power fist on champ, killed a predator on turn 1!

 

They were wiped out on turn 2, but man that was fun!

 

Gonna make a squad of warp talons or raptors with flamers and try to kill some devastador squads or a caracter

[Sception]

I like the regular lord, but am leaning towards fist over power sword.  The sword just isn't as threatening as I'd like this guy to be.

 

I don't have enough games to really have a strong opinion, but stuff I'm interested in trying in my black legion:

 

Abaddon, deep striking with terminators & maybe a sorc

 

Terminator sorcerer w/ warp time or prescience, deep striking w/ terminators & maybe abby

 

lord (sword or fist w/ ppistol or bpistol; riding a rhino or dreadclaw with chosen, havocs, or berzerkers)

 

Apostle (with some chosen or zerkers)

 

prince (with wings, claws, bolter, & warp time, deep striking with raptors & warp talons)

 

 

I'm not as sure about what to do with the warpsmith.  I want to like him, but seems to be kitted out for two mutually exclusive jobs - one being rushing forward in a rhino or dreadclaw to get into range to use his special weapons & power axe, the other being slowly waddling forward in the shadow of a defiler, fiend, dread, or the like, giving them an extra d3 wounds back a turn.  If the curse did d3 mortals, making it a more meaningful alternative to the healing ability, or if he was, like 2/3 his current price to do just one of his two jobs, I'd be all over him, but paying for both when you're honestly only going to be doing one seems like a losing proposition.

 

I'm a bit more keen on the FW 'hellwright on dark abeyant'.  It's considerably more expensive, but with move 8 it can keep pace with a faster vehicle moving forward, preferably something hellforged to benefit from its enhancement of such units, to do the healing thing while simultaneously closing into close range with its weaponry, which is also powered up a bit.  I may have to pop my smith off his base, remove & replace some of his weaponry, and convert an 'abeyant' to carry him.

[Midnightmare]

Looking at how Drach'nyen works, Daemon Weapons will totally be back when the Codex returns, though I have to point out that I am liking Abaddon not only for his potential damage output, but he also buffs units really well locally with a 6" re-roll of hits and 12" ignoring morale bubble. He will be a high priority target I am sure, but he also halves the wounds (rounding up) which will help. I used him a lot last edition and he seems much better this time round; I am looking forward to deep striking him in with his Terminator mates :D

[Sception]

I think drach'nyen's stats are more about translating abbadons previous rules, rather than giving us any indication of what they intend for the design of future daemon weapons.  A better indication, imo, would be the Lord of Contagion's Plaguereaper or Typhus's Manreaper.  No trace of the old daemon weapon rule, instead just a powerful weapon in its own right, with a minor special rule to give them some character.

[Ishagu]

Abaddon and Belakor really stand out to me.

[the jeske]

 

demon princes are good[although the demon demon princes are better, so it is more a matter of points if you take the csm ones].

What is it that you prefer about the Daemon version of the Prince?

 

I think the CSM version is better. It's under 10 wounds, so can't be targeted as easily. It has better leadership and it's abilities affect CSM units as well as Daemon units. What am I missing about the Daemon version?

 

It synergises better with actual demons. The csm DP tries to be like the non lash DP from 5th ed, charge in kill some stuff and die. Only he does not kill enough stuff, nor does he have  a cost low enough to be played in 2k point games. Now in 1k point games, if people are going to play those, he can be much better, but non standard game size is as always full of skews. Plus If I realy wanted to have something fly around and bash stuff on its head I would take belfegor, a thirster or even a LoC.

 

The re-rolls and the Ld buff are buffs that won't be used most of the time, as he is faster then most csm stuff and keeping him in the back field seems like a waste of points as a cheap lord would do more or less the same.

[Slayer le Boucher]

Probably Khârn and a Juggerlord with PFist and Plasma pistol.

 

I maybe will do a Night Lord detachement to accompagny my World Eaters and add some Warptalons and a Sorceror for Warp time.