Infantry Squads in 8th

[Withershadow]

I am still trying to decide what to do with Infantry Squads. Without combining, the take aim/bring it down orders used on a squad with a single special and single heavy weapon squad seem less useful. Likewise if you're using first rank second rank, you're only buffing 7 lasguns at a time. Right now I'm leaning towards the best use of guardsmen being conscript blobs.

 

Heavy weapons can be taken in teams and are resistant to morale even without external buffs, special weapons can be staked on BS3+ command squads.

 

Veterans may be the exception for 10-man guard Squads due to their accuracy and volume of special weapons, but they lost a lot of their luster in the transition.

[HenricusTyranicus]

I like solo plasma gun builds. Plasma is hyper versatile, a squad with a plasma gun is still cheaper than a naked squad last edition, mobility is not compromised, ad that fact that we get to allocate wounds means plasma guy is always the last one left alive. When confronted with three such squads, the enemy has to figure out how to split their fire just right, so that no shots are wasted, but that last plasma guy isn't left alive. 6 such squads are 282 points. You can cover the field in these guys with no problem, and still have room for tanks, heavy weapons, and even a blob or 5 of conscripts.

[Dr_Ruminahui]

I like the idea of a squad of conscripts at the front of my line. How do people model them? I know Cadians have Whiteshields with a distinctive helmet marking, so what about a Preatorian Regiments?

 

Another option is to paint models in prison stripes (or such) and field them as penal troops - that's the approach I took.

 

Inquisitor Psychologis Ruminahui

[Withershadow]

I like solo plasma gun builds. Plasma is hyper versatile, a squad with a plasma gun is still cheaper than a naked squad last edition, mobility is not compromised, ad that fact that we get to allocate wounds means plasma guy is always the last one left alive. When confronted with three such squads, the enemy has to figure out how to split their fire just right, so that no shots are wasted, but that last plasma guy isn't left alive. 6 such squads are 282 points. You can cover the field in these guys with no problem, and still have room for tanks, heavy weapons, and even a blob or 5 of conscripts.

By solo plasma guns you mean just giving them a single plasma gun?  This approach may well work for the Death Korps, who don't need commissars everywhere to keep them from breaking.  I actually think along with the plasma gun, the grenade launcher is the other solid option.  At range, the D3 damage grenade is comparable/better than a single non over-charged plasma shot, and the D6 frag is better against the type of stuff the rest of the lasguns would be firing at.  So with a grenade launcher and the Sgt tossing a frag grenade plus FRFSRF order, a guard squad can deliver 32+2D6 S3 attacks, which is pretty good for how few points they cost.  I don't like meltas on guardsmen due to cost, and I don't like the flamer due to range. 

Edited June 23, 2017 by Withershadow

[Thoridon]

I think if I was to take a heavy weapon in a squad I'd make them Veterans. I think the points increase per model would be worth it when you're looking at spending a good chunk on a heavy weapon, to give it BS 3. On the move that 4+ would then be the same as a stationary infantry squad. Add a couple of plasma guns, position them wisely and you can have a mid-range fire support squad behind your main infantry to respond to threats. If there's an officer in range (I'd use vox for the 18") you can then throw them the reroll 1s order if you want to overcharge that plasma at something nasty, and it would also benefit the heavy.

 

I wouldn't use many Veteran squads as they compete with platoon commanders and command squads but it could be the place to combine a heavy with multiple specials and then have the extra lasgun models to take all the early wounds and keep those weapons alive longer.

 

I would still make sure I have plenty of cheaper equipped Infantry for coverage.

[Gen.Steiner]

I think maybe three sniper rifles and a lascannon in a Veteran squad would be an interesting option. Sit them in cover and smack stuff from a distance, maybe give them an officer or at least a vox-set so they can benefit from Orders.

But standard infantry squads - well - either we kit them out for mobility without heavy weapons or we chuck in something like a heavy bolter or a rocket launcher to allow a bit of versatility. They're so cheap (40pts!!) that you can happily fill out every troops slot in a Brigade Detachment for a pittance and have lots of points left over for whatever you want.

[The Mad Hermit]

I think I'm going to have to put together some of my Heavy Weapons Teams with the intention of putting them into Existing Infantry Squads instead of keeping all of them in HW Squads.

 

The plus side of this is, when taking two standard Guardsmen out to make room for them, I'll have the start of another Infantry Squad.

 

I have a LOT of Infantry.

[Withershadow]

Heavy weapon teams are pretty solid now. Morale is not a big deal when you only have 3 members, and you can take a pair of autocannons or other cheap gun to hide the lascannons or launcher.

[micdicdoc]

With the new universal ability to split fire being a thing now, I think you might be right, @Steiner, in saying that Missile Launchers are now a solid, versatile heavy weapon for our infantry squads.

 

Like @ThatOneMarshal said, I'm still afraid that Heavy Weapon Squads are just too squishy. Particularly if you take Lascannons or Autocannons and your opponent is smart enough to identify them as high value targets, I doubt they will be around for too long. Sure, you can always mitigate this by taking more, but with a squad of size six, I have to wonder how many additional squads you would need to take to provide a reliable buffer to losses whilst still maintaining adequate firepower.

 

In the last edition I used to embed my Heavy Weapons in my Infantry Squads, and I think I might begin 8th by trying the same. Granted, then I used to blob up my squads, but I still think that the extra bodies will provide a little more protection to Heavy Weapons like Lascannons and Autocannons.

[Gen.Steiner]

The ability to split fire makes all heavy weapons a better choice for infantry squads now; but I think the Rocket Launcher and Autocannon are still the best choices - the RL for its versatility and the a/c for its rate of fire and reasonably high strength.

[Withershadow]

Heavy weapon teams are great to shove in Baneblade-chassis transports too.  Another advantage is you can buff them will with orders, which are otherwise somewhat wasted on regular guard squads.

[NatBrannigan]

Regarding conscripts: I did look at the fantasy range but wanted something a little more uniform and sci-fi than Flagellants, good idea though. Penal colony troops are also a possible, I think the 'stealer cultist approach is still my fav just because I can use them as conscripts or cultists easily now, and the mining equipment really goes with the terrain I'm building. Great ideas, keep them coming! WIP thread on the way I think :)

 

Tactics wise, I had decent results with bare bones squads (bolter for the Sarge and a grenade launcher of flamer) on Infantry squads. My veterans were ok, 3 Meltas in a Taurox blasted a Hellbrute, then died horribly. I'm happy with them over Conscripts for now but I'm undecided on where to put the Heavy Weapons...

 

I've not played as much as I'd like with the new rules and so far Heavy Weapon Squads are doing really well. The problem being I haven't come up against much in the way of deep striking units which will make short work of them. There's not much point using a couple of Infantry squads to shield those Heavy Weapon Squads, because if I'm doing that I may as well just put the Heavy Weapons in with the Infantry Squads! 

[Gen.Steiner]

I think the trick with Heavy Weapon Squads is to take several (I'm planning on a mortar squad, a fire support autocannon squad and a lascannon squad), stick them near the Company Command Squad and the Company Commander, and use HWS to area deny the enemy's deep strikers. After all the 60mm bases are pretty big and you can spread 'em out quite a bit.

[NatBrannigan]

Hmmm, using them as bubblewrap in stead of having units bubblewrap them? I like it!

[Gen.Steiner]

It's like rolling up the bubblewrap! :D

[Withershadow]

A Command Squad with banner and medic are a good addition to a heavy weapons cluster. With the banner, you can largely ignore battle shock, and the medic can bring back entire weapon teams on a 4+. Take a mortar on the remaining two dudes and you can keep the unit out of sight while still putting out some damage.

[Altasmurf]

Afraid you can only medic back one wound models. He could be used to heal a single wound on a team, but not bring a team back. Otherwise your right about it being a good back line support unit.

[Mitchverr]

Just curious what people would say is the optium weapon to stick into krieger squads, or would you go without a special weapon and stick the points elsewhere?

 

As kriegers dont get FRFSRF and dont worry about taking gunshot wounds, might be a bit different, I was thinking flamers or plasma guns, but not sure.

[Gen.Steiner]

Mitchverr - bayonets. Put bayonets on your bayonets and bayonets on those. :P More seriously, I'd suggest something with punch - plasma or melta really. If you don't get FRFSRF then probably also worth bunging in a heavy weapon too if you can.

[Mitchverr]

Mitchverr - bayonets. Put bayonets on your bayonets and bayonets on those. More seriously, I'd suggest something with punch - plasma or melta really. If you don't get FRFSRF then probably also worth bunging in a heavy weapon too if you can.

 

Dont get those either, literally what we get for em is a CC weapon and "ranged weapon" for the squad lead (so we can give him a hotshot which is nice) and a single special weapon, no heavy weapons for them or grenadiers. Grenadiers get 2 special weapons from go though (5 man squad, dont need 10 man for 2).

 

We also get to take platoon standards, thinking 1 for every 3 squads (any squad within 6 of their squad getting a +1 to moral tests works well i think)

[HenricusTyranicus]

Well, at ranges beyond 12, you essentially have FRFSRF. I think flamers would overall be your best bet, with grenade launchers as a close second. Kriegers are decent at close combat, so you can flame an enemy, charge in, get all your attacks, get butchered in return, and thanks to duty unto death, make another round of attacks. I think at a range grenade launchers are better than plasma guns because plasma relies a little more on orders, and No Mercy is well worth ordering beyond twelve.  Although non charged plasma is not a trivial thing to deal with either.  

[Gen.Steiner]

If you can't take heavy weapons then you're best off with flamers.

Base squad, flamer, maybe give the SGT a hellpistol or bolter - something cheap with punch - and give the platoon commander a command squad with standard so they can affect the squads with their buff bubble.

I'd run three squads with a PC and PCS all with flamers to run screaming towards the enemy and die horribly so that your second, third and maybe fourth waves can carry the day.

Or your artillery. Whichever you prefer.

[Mitchverr]

I was thinking infantry squad for the platoon flag because my command squads can take a regimental (which gives +1 attack and leadership in combat to squads within 6 inches) as a combo work, as the command squad can only bring 1 flag. As a combo, it means in combat I effectively +2 to my morale tests  if both flags hit the unit right?

 

For cheap with punch for the squad leads, I think i might just go with hotshot lasguns simply for taking advantage of the orders system.

 

Mass flamers sounds fun, also fun from a painting side of things (doing the whole "fire reflecting off the model" thing sounds interesting).

[Gen.Steiner]

Remember, if in doubt, throw more Guardsmen at the problem.

[Brother Captain Ed]

Wait...maybe I'm blind, but the only prohibition on charging seems to be Advancing, Falling Back, or being in melee. Did I miss something? Can I walk a squad up, FRFSRF, and then charge to try and finish them off before they can strike?