Starting a second army: Deathguard and Chaos

[Wrath of Bruinen]

Dirty tricks for my upcoming tournament.

 

Take one unit of lascannon Havoks, give them the mark of Slanesh. Take one sorcerer with the mark of Nurgle and the psychic powers Prescience, and Misasma of pestilence.

 

Cast Misasma of pestilence and prescience on the Havoks.

 

Use 2 command points for Endless Cacophony, and 1 command point for Veterans of the Long War on the Havoks.

 

Havoks now add 1 to all their wounds and 1s to all their hits and they fire twice this turn. Anything shooting at them has a -1 to hit from Miasma of pestilence, a -1 to hit if they are over 12" away from them being Alpha Legion, and a further -1 to hit if they are in cover. 8 lascannon shots at what amounts to BS 2+ with +1 to wound.

I could be wrong, but you can only cast the nurgle power on a unit with a mark of nurgle (I.e. Because your havocs will have MoS you can't cast miasma on them)

[the jeske]

In an effort to get all my lascannons, heavy bolters, and plasma guns in play, I have thought about the following changes.

 

Battalion 1, Spearhead

Lord Arkos

5 Havoks, 3 lascannons

5 Havoks, 3 lascannons

5 Havoks, 4 missile launchers

5 Havoks, 4 missile launchers

5 Havoks, 4 plasma guns

5 Havoks, 4 plasma guns

 

Battalion 2

Lord

Sorcerer

5 Havoks, 3 heavy bolters

5 marines, 1 heavy bolter

5 marines, 1 heavy bolter

6 marines, 1 heavy bolter

 

1491 points

this requires one very good counter model/unit, or two good ones. Also you are going to struggle vs fast moving horde, and when objectives are numerous and far apart. Aside of that list looks ok.

 

 

On another note, how did you manged to start chaos and get 8 RL and 8 lascannons and 0 AC? Interested in the story aspect of it, not the viability one.

Edited August 14, 2017 by the jeske

[micahwc]

Just the bits I bought. I started with 60 snap fit marines and 5 2nd edition metal death company marines; then I just bought the bits I wanted from eBay bits sellers.

 

As for the list, the three missions used in the tournament have a maximum of four objectives, which is only for one mission. On that mission I get to place two of them. I figure my opponent will have a hard time getting slay the warlord, and my first turn of shooting should get me first blood as long as it hasn't already been earned by my opponent. Between 6 heavy bolters, 6 lascannons, and 8 missile launchers I figure I should be able to kill something.

 

The third mission involves stealing a relic from the center of the table, and I plan on using some command points to forward infiltrate my alpha legion to grab them. Lord Arkos has infiltrate, so he can start close to objectives if I need him to do so.

 

Really, I'm just making a list with what I have and plan on having fun doing it. I have 5 rhinos I could paint up if I need them, and I have two whirlwind scorpius turrets for them, but everything else I own is infantry. I don't own any terminators yet. I don't own anything that's specifically chaos yet except for the chaos half of the dark imperium box, which would have to be included in it's own detachment if I wanted to bring any of it. I will likely (ebay auction dependent) have a box of ungor beastmen arrive before this tournament which I would use to make Malefic Lords out of the chaos Forgeworld index, I don't mind using them since they are official GW models and there isn't a model for Malefic Lords yet.

Edited August 14, 2017 by micahwc

[micahwc]

Weeping Angel is correct about the mark of nurgle being required to cast Miasma of Pestilence. So I'll skip that, go Slanesh on the sorcerer since everything else is Slanesh, and just use Prescience and Warp Time.

[micahwc]

 

 

Are these lascannons better?

 

http://i.imgur.com/9fyFj15.jpg

[micahwc]

Did some more work, all of these are almost done with paint now. I have some washes coming in the mail tomorrow that I will use on them.

http://i.imgur.com/6hL3UPL.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/6vR5jj0.jpg

 

And since no one wants to be accused of having a small ... lascannon:

http://i.imgur.com/Wl6xhVq.jpg

 

These are astra militarum heavy weapon team lascannons, bringing home the point that Astartes are superhuman.

[micahwc]

Really thinking about dropping the three squads of marines and the lord, and replacing them with a bunch of cultists and a dark apostle.

 

Shenanigans abound.

 

Diabolic Strength psychic power can make cultists strength 5, with 3 attacks (armed with pistol/brutal assault weapon). Add a dark apostle with a black mace. Consider warp time for the cultists, or the Slanesh power Delightful Agonies to give them a 5+ FNP roll. Infiltrate them with the Alpha Legion stratagem. Costs a few command points, but you can start 40 of these guys and a sorcerer 9" away from an enemy unit before the game starts. After they are whittled down a bit you can bring them back with the Tide of Traitors stratagem for 2 more points. Chaos Cultists have the heretic astartes key word and can also benefit from the Veteran's of the Long War stratagem for +1 to wound. Using Diabolic Strength and Veterans of the Long War, cultists wound marines on a 2+ (3+ with +1 to the roll technically). 40 of these gets 120 attacks. A dark apostle with them will let them re-roll failed hits in the fight phase.

[Panzer]

Really thinking about dropping the three squads of marines and the lord, and replacing them with a bunch of cultists and a dark apostle.

 

Shenanigans abound.

 

Diabolic Strength psychic power can make cultists strength 5, with 3 attacks (armed with pistol/brutal assault weapon). Add a dark apostle with a black mace. Consider warp time for the cultists, or the Slanesh power Delightful Agonies to give them a 5+ FNP roll. Infiltrate them with the Alpha Legion stratagem. Costs a few command points, but you can start 40 of these guys and a sorcerer 9" away from an enemy unit before the game starts. After they are whittled down a bit you can bring them back with the Tide of Traitors stratagem for 2 more points. Chaos Cultists have the heretic astartes key word and can also benefit from the Veteran's of the Long War stratagem for +1 to wound. Using Diabolic Strength and Veterans of the Long War, cultists wound marines on a 2+ (3+ with +1 to the roll technically). 40 of these gets 120 attacks. A dark apostle with them will let them re-roll failed hits in the fight phase.

Sounds like a lot of efford to make them almost as strong as Possessed while being less durable.

Sure they cost less per model but you also need the Sorcerer, pull off the powers and even then it lasts only for one turn.

[Extropian]

As mentioned in the other thread, Diabolic Strength does NOT affect units, just 1 model.

[micahwc]

http://i.imgur.com/sf1rm5H.jpg

 

Did a lot of work on everything

[micahwc]

My bad about Diabolic Strength. I didn't see that it's only 1 model. Oh well.

 

Newest idea for a list, 3 detachments. 9 or 7 command points.

 

Detachment 1,  Spearhead detachment, +1 command point

Lord Arkos, +1 command point

Havoks, lascannon

Havoks, lascannon

Havoks, Missile Launcher

 

Detachment 2, Spearhead detachment, +1 command point

Lord

Sorcerer

Havoks, Missile launcher

Havoks, Plasma

Havoks, Plasma

 

Detachment 3, battalion detachment, +3 command points

Malefic Lord

Malefic Lord

20x mutant rabble, shotguns

20x mutant rabble, shotguns

20x mutant rabble, shotguns

 

OR

 

Detachment 3, Vanguard Detachment

Malefic Lord

Malefic Lord

10x Marauders, shotguns

10x Marauders, shotguns

10x Marauders, shotguns

10x Marauders, shotguns

7x Marauders, shotguns

 

All marauders have the Hereteks ability for a 4+ save

Edited August 16, 2017 by micahwc

[Azekai]

Hard to say. I have never used marauders in my R&H army. My gut tells me with ObSec being a thing that high numbers of mutants are going to be better, but then again, you have no enforcers to keep the wimpy freaks in the fight. 

How are you planning on modeling the mutants?

[micahwc]

I have 2 box sets of Warzone: Mutant Chronicles 2nd edition, so I have about 60 of each factions basic troops from that game. I have the Bauhaus guys modified to look like they are carrying shotguns. I was and still may use some or all of these guys to make a DKoK army, as they are very much sci-fi WW1-2 inspired. My renegade Malefic Lords will be made from Warhammer gor beastmen models.

 

I'm leaning towards marauders as they can take sniper rifles, which are literally the only chaos unit able to do so. 4 units would give me 8 sniper shots per turn, which would be really helpful against the guard armies I will face.

 

The Malefic Lords can cast Unnatural Vigor, which with a large number of marauders becomes kind of scary although its very hard to cast.

 

• Unnatural Vigor: every RnH infantry unit (except this unit) within 6" gets re-rolls on charge distance, hit rolls, and wound rolls for the rest of the turn. Each unit then takes d3 mortal wounds at the end of the turn.

 

If you place one of these guys right to effect multiple units of marauders with shotguns, you can advance and fire, and then you can re-roll your charge distance, and your hit and wound rolls in the fight phase. Marauders have 2 attacks each regardless of what they are armed with.

 

While originally I wanted to avoid 3rd party models, since Malefic Lords, Marauders, and Earthshaker Batteries don't have models currently in production I feel less bad about bringing them.

Edited August 16, 2017 by micahwc

[micahwc]

I just ordered 40 Age of Sigmar Blood Reavers to convert into cultists. Either mutant rabble, chaos cultists, RnH cultists. I wish RnH had an option to bring them with dual close combat weapons and no pistol, but oh well.

[Azekai]

Sounds like you have the models for your army all picked out!

As for strategy, I am not a fan of Unnatural Vigor, because it is pretty risky to use and it kills off your troops. Even if you manage to succeed with the roll and your enemy fails to deny, I feel like there are a lot of p opportunities for things to go wrong.  If you want to experiment with such fickle witchery, go for it, but for a tourney I would want something a bit more concrete and dependable. I do like using Malefic Lords, though, they make great Smite machines, and if the enemy gets too close, you can use Warp Flux to kill off vehicles or Creeping Terror to further weaken large enemy squads.

A few sniper squads could be useful. Math hammer says they aren't that amazing, but if you get a lucky shot you can totally transform the battlefield. I feel like including a few sniper marauders is a less risky proposition than trying to build an army around Unnatural Vigor.

[micahwc]

I am a traitor's traitor's traitor.

 

Okay, new plan. Models on the way. I think this is the list for me.

 

 

Spearhead, +1 CP

2x Malefic Lords

3x Earthshaker batteries

 

Spearhead, Alpha Legion, +1CP

Lord, bolt pistol, power fist

Sorcerer, bolt pistol, force sword

5 havoks, 3 lascannons

5 havoks, 3 lascannons

5 havoks, 4 missile launchers

5 havoks, 4 missile launchers

 

Battalion Detachment, World Eaters, +3 command points

Dark Apostle, bolt pistol, Black Mace (blackreach chosen with mace)

Exalted champion, bolt pistol, Axe of Blind Fury (gifts of chaos stratagem, -1 command point) (blackreach chosen with axe)

40x cultists with brutal assault weapons (converted age of sigmar Blood Reivers)

10x cultists with autoguns (warpath mutant chronicles 2nd edition Imperial models with bayonets)

10x cultists with autoguns (as above)

 

7 command points, 1497 points total

 

Group of 40 cultists, Dark Apostle, and Exalted Champion rush forward, possibly aided by Warp Time. Cultists re-roll hits and wounds with Dark Apostle and Exalted Champion nearby. Dark Apostle and Exalted Champion are both strength 7, and have 7 (9 on charge) attacks between the two of them, most of which will do more than 1 wound each. They should be able to cut through heavy infantry easily and even threaten less armored vehicles pretty well. Group of 40 cultists will get 3 attacks each on the charge from brutal assault weapons and butcher's nails.

 

2 remaining groups of cultists bubblewrap the earthshaker batteries to keep them shooting all game long. Earthshakers are placed behind cover somewhere as they don't require line of sight and have a 240" range.

 

Sorcerer will be either casting smite, warp time, or prescience as much as possible. Malefic Lords will be casting smite as much as they can.

 

Lord will be positioned to give as many re-rolls as possible to the havoks.

 

 

Thoughts? Thanks in advance.

[micahwc]

Kind of toying with trying to fit a brigade in 1500 points. I bought three age of sigmar Khorgoraths which I will use as spawn to fill out the FA slot. Spawn have the heretic astartes and legion keywordsso they benefit from all the cool buffs.

 

I'd run cultists and marines for troops. Chosen and possessed for elites. Sorcerer, lord, and exalted champions for HQ. Havoks for heavy support.

 

A brigade is a lot of points but gives me a lot of objective secured, decent close combat, and a lot of havoks.

[micahwc]

http://i.imgur.com/KGy1DkH.jpg

 

10 of these guys showed up today. After a quick repaint I think he will make a great malefic lord

Edited August 19, 2017 by micahwc

[Wrath of Bruinen]

Kind of toying with trying to fit a brigade in 1500 points. I bought three age of sigmar Khorgoraths which I will use as spawn to fill out the FA slot. Spawn have the heretic astartes and legion keywordsso they benefit from all the cool buffs.

 

I'd run cultists and marines for troops. Chosen and possessed for elites. Sorcerer, lord, and exalted champions for HQ. Havoks for heavy support.

 

A brigade is a lot of points but gives me a lot of objective secured, decent close combat, and a lot of havoks.

I would be interested to see what you can come up with for a brigade. My gut reaction though is that you can probably squeeze minimum squads into every slot to fill the requirements, but you won't leave yourself many points for upgrades. Then you will end up with plenty of command points, but not any really good units to spend them on. Happy to be proven wrong though.

 

Ps the malefic lord looks interesting - should be very chaos-y!

[micahwc]

You're right. My quick guesstimate came up right at 1500 points with minimum everything. If I want to bring a brigade the cheaper bet is to bring a heretic list for around 800 points, and then a spearhead detachment of chaos with the rest.

 

Brigade (chaos keyword)

3x malefic lords

60x cultists from the chaos codex for troops. Give them Alpha Legion keyword and they will still benefit from AL buffs except for the legion tactics.

3 earthshakers

3 chaos spawn

3x10 heretek marauders (could go 3x5 instead)

 

Comes up to 849 points.

Edited August 19, 2017 by micahwc

[micahwc]

Marauders are relatively cheap and have two base attacks each. I think 3 squads would be perfect to defend the earthshaker batteries.

 

Add 2 havok squads with 3 lascannons, and 1 squad of 4 missile launcher havoks, brings me up to 1294 points, leaving enough points for a lord or sorcerer. 13 command points.

Edited August 19, 2017 by micahwc

[micahwc]

If I want to bring a Brigade I think a Renegades and Heretics detachment is best for the points.

 

Brigade detachment, Chaos Keyword

 

3x Malefic Lords

5x10 Chaos Cultists (chaos codex versions), Alpha Legion keyword, Mark of Slanesh

1x13 Chaos Cultists (chaos codex versions), Alpha Legion keyword, Mark of Slanesh

3x1 Chaos Spawn (chaos codex version), Alpha Legion keyword, Mark of Slanesh

3x1 Earthshaker Batteries

4x5 Renegade Marauders, shotguns, 2x sniper rifles, Stalkers discipline (-1 to hit and +1 to cover)

 

817 points, +9 command points

 

Battalion Detachment, Alpha Legion Keyword, all Alpha Legion keyword, all Mark of Slanesh

 

Lord, powerfist, bolt pistol

Sorcerer, force sword, bolt pistol

5x Havoks, 4x Missile Launchers

5x Havoks, 4x Missile Launchers

5x Havoks, 4x Lascannons

 

683 points, +1 command point

 

13 command points total, 1500 points.

 

 

Basic plan:

 

Against anything that can't fight in close combat, (Tau specifically) I will spend probably 6 command points to forward infiltrate my Chaos Lord, Chaos Sorcerer, and 40 or so Chaos Cultists 9" away from their line at the start of the game.

 

Marauders sit in cover and try to snipe buffers (commisars, Lieutenants, etc). Any extra wounds on them before they get close is great, and any kills are just gravy.

 

Lascannons fire twice with endless cacophony until they die, and then a missile squad will fire twice. Hopefully first turn of my shooting will get anything really big and nasty neutralized via degrading profile. Between 8 lascannons 8 krak missiles, and 3 earthshaker shots I should be able to cripple just about anything. Alternatively, I shoot everything at the weakest unit I can see and go for first blood right off the bat.

 

Marauders and cultists bubble wrap my heavy weapons. Earthshakers deploy out of line of site to stay safe. Lord and sorcerer buff the Havoks as much as possible.

 

Malefic Lords and Chaos Sorcerer cast smite on the really hard to injure stuff. I've been watching a lot of games lately and mass smite seems to be really useful for things that are otherwise hard to kill.

 

Spawn protect the earthshakers. I wish I had more but I don't have the points or models to bring more than three.

[Azekai]

If I want to bring a Brigade I think a Renegades and Heretics detachment is best for the points.

 

Brigade detachment, Chaos Keyword

 

3x Malefic Lords

5x10 Chaos Cultists (chaos codex versions), Alpha Legion keyword, Mark of Slanesh

1x13 Chaos Cultists (chaos codex versions), Alpha Legion keyword, Mark of Slanesh

3x1 Chaos Spawn (chaos codex version), Alpha Legion keyword, Mark of Slanesh

3x1 Earthshaker Batteries

4x5 Renegade Marauders, shotguns, 2x sniper rifles, Stalkers discipline (-1 to hit and +1 to cover)

 

817 points, +9 command points

 

Battalion Detachment, Alpha Legion Keyword, all Alpha Legion keyword, all Mark of Slanesh

 

Lord, powerfist, bolt pistol

Sorcerer, force sword, bolt pistol

5x Havoks, 4x Missile Launchers

5x Havoks, 4x Missile Launchers

5x Havoks, 4x Lascannons

 

683 points, +1 command point

 

13 command points total, 1500 points.

 

 

Basic plan:

 

Against anything that can't fight in close combat, (Tau specifically) I will spend probably 6 command points to forward infiltrate my Chaos Lord, Chaos Sorcerer, and 40 or so Chaos Cultists 9" away from their line at the start of the game.

 

Marauders sit in cover and try to snipe buffers (commisars, Lieutenants, etc). Any extra wounds on them before they get close is great, and any kills are just gravy.

 

Lascannons fire twice with endless cacophony until they die, and then a missile squad will fire twice. Hopefully first turn of my shooting will get anything really big and nasty neutralized via degrading profile. Between 8 lascannons 8 krak missiles, and 3 earthshaker shots I should be able to cripple just about anything. Alternatively, I shoot everything at the weakest unit I can see and go for first blood right off the bat.

 

Marauders and cultists bubble wrap my heavy weapons. Earthshakers deploy out of line of site to stay safe. Lord and sorcerer buff the Havoks as much as possible.

 

Malefic Lords and Chaos Sorcerer cast smite on the really hard to injure stuff. I've been watching a lot of games lately and mass smite seems to be really useful for things that are otherwise hard to kill.

 

Spawn protect the earthshakers. I wish I had more but I don't have the points or models to bring more than three.

If there is one thing I like to see in a R&H list it is 3+ Malefic Lords. I love those little freakshows.

 

I would not want to fight this list. Any chance you will get to use it to familiarize yourself before the tourney starts?

[micahwc]

Nope. Tournament will be my second game of 8th edition.

 

I'm trying to theorize how it will do in different situations. Based on averages this list can do 20 wounds to a Lord of Skulls in one turn of shooting, I think. For anti-flyer spam I'm thinking the flak missile stratagem and smite will be my go to methods. I have enough bodies that I think I'll be okay versus hoards. I don't really have anything amazing at close combat but I have enough bodies to delay it and force it to happen on my terms.

 

How would you fight this list?

[micahwc]

Here is a slightly more doucheier version of the above. Three detachments. No brigade, but two battalions and a supreme command detachment. I lose out on my chaos spawn and marauders, but I gain 3 more Malefic Lords and 2 heavy bolters. It also gives me a 30 man unit of cultists to infiltrate instead of just 10 man units.

 

Detachment 1, RnH, Battalion Detachment. +3 command points

 

Malefic Lord

Malefic Lord

Malefic Lord

10x cultists

10x cultists

10x cultists

Earthshaker Battery

Earthshaker Battery

Earthshaker Battery

 

Detachment 2, RnH, Supreme Command Detachment, +1 command point

 

Malefic Lord

Malefic Lord

Malefic Lord

 

Detachment 3, Alpha Legion, Battalion Detachment, +3 command points

 

Chaos Lord, bolt pistol, power fist

Chaos Sorcerer, bolt pistol, force sword

30x cultists

5x Chaos marines, heavy bolter

5x Chaos marines, heavy bolter

5x Havoks, 4x Lascannons

5x Havoks, 4x Missile Launchers

5x Havoks, 4x Missile Launchers

 

Pros over the previous list: More smite, More chances for Malefic Lords to hulk out. 2 extra heavy bolters. A large group of cultists to infiltrate/tide of traitors. More heavy weapons than previous list. Cost less command points to mass infiltrate.

 

Cons: No sniper rifles, lose 4 units of marauders and three chaos spawn. Less bodies on the field. "Only" 10 command points instead of 13.

Edited August 22, 2017 by micahwc