Are we a melee army?

[Dallas Drake]

Are we a melee army, or are we a shooty army? Or both/neither?

 

Basically, where do you see CSMs now? What do you think the playstyle of 8th should be and what do you see working. I'm really eager to know people's thoughts, because we certainly can't beat Tyranids in hand to hand and we certainly can't shoot marines, Tau, and Eldar off the table either.

 

With that in mind...

 

1. Should we be building;

 

i) lists that close with the enemy asap?

ii) lists that shoot well?

iii) a mixture of the two?

 

2. Where does that leave us against say Tau, Eldar, and Tyranids?

 

3. What is your pick of the codex? What unit stands out as the best option & one you will feature in your lists.

Edited June 21, 2017 by Dallas Drake

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

My answer is i AND ii. We have some difficulty matching others at long range, but our firepower at 24in and under can be very effective.

 

The general paradigm with 3.0 Chaos in most of the places I played (after 2nd and before 3.5) was fast advance or infiltrate followed by crushing mid-range firepower and then a finishing assault....unless you were playing Khorne, in which case it was Rhino Rush and/or Daemon Bomb.

 

We seem to be sort of back to that point now. Take mid range, melt as many threats as you can with our abundance of combi and special weapons (and scary things like Blight Launchers or Inferno Bolters) and then close for the kill.

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

My answer is i AND ii. We have some difficulty matching others at long range, but our firepower at 24in and under can be very effective.

 

The general paradigm with 3.0 Chaos in most of the places I played (after 2nd and before 3.5) was fast advance or infiltrate followed by crushing mid-range firepower and then a finishing assault....unless you were playing Khorne, in which case it was Rhino Rush and/or Daemon Bomb.

 

We seem to be sort of back to that point now. Take mid range, melt as many threats as you can with our abundance of combi and special weapons (and scary things like Blight Launchers or Inferno Bolters) and then close for the kill. Preferably, this last step is done with things that can either utterly exterminate the remaining enemy (Termies, Berzerkers) or shatter their morale to achieve a similar result (Raptors, Spawn).

 

Our Havocs are a choice instrument for this type of warfare. Take 2 5 man squads with 4 Plasma Guns, a Combi, and a Power Weapon in each. Put them both in one fast transport and Warptime into position.

Edited June 22, 2017 by GreaterChickenofTzeentch

[Archaeinox]

The best list I have found is one that has some Scarab terminators for deep strike and charging an enemy unit in it deployment zone, Tzaangors for multipurpose assault, rubrics and sorcerers for mortal wounds and small arms fire, predators for long range firepower. 

 

So both.. and its fun!

[ChazSexington]

We are a proper mixture. I brought 2 DiscoPredators yesterday to fight a 2x Riptide Tau list at 1500pt; a single riptide had 2 W left after my T2. I Warptimed a Helbrute, which tanked a lot of fire, then T2 Cultists into CC (courtesy of Warptime), while another Helbrute kept tanking remaining Riptide fire. All while my Fallen and Cypher were bringing supercharged plasma to bear, with no chance of overheating. 

 

I'm gonna go with we're more of a combined arms kinda army. Many units are fast enough to get into CC, tough enough to survive quite a bit of firepower, and no slouches in CC, so they become target priorities. This, combined with high powered shooting from other units, can be pretty devastating. 

Edited June 22, 2017 by ChazSexington

[Filkarion]

I have been "forced" to play 1000 points instead of the more "tuned" 1500 list two days ago against a "Tankfull"  Guardia Militaris 

 

So my list was just a Demon Prince, a sorcerer and 3 fully equipped ten men squads of Noise Marines

 

I wish I had an Hellbrute and some Bikers!! I lost the game as long as I lost the Demon Prince. Not that Sonic Weapons are bad, but some hard, "incoming" hitters would have done wonders to distract fire and destroy/engage vehicles!

 

My new 1000 list is; DP, Sorcerer, 10 fully equipped Noise Marines, 2 five man squads with blastmaster only, a Hellbrute and 4 bikers with a melta 

 

So I confirm the "short range firepower and melee" approach. I guess it's fittig

Edited June 22, 2017 by Filkarion

[CrimsonReign]

im going to try to play as close to how I did in 7th 

 

melee - cultists, bikes, spawn, mauler

shooty - predators, marines, drakes

both, kinda? - helbrutes

 

so far i'm finding the new morale an issue for large blobs of cultists, so I'd recommend min squads for them (force org permitting)

Edited June 22, 2017 by CrimsonReign

[Filkarion]

CrimsonReign, I guess Drakes are now in the "both" category

[ChazSexington]

im going to try to play as close to how I did in 7th 

 

melee - cultists, bikes, spawn, mauler

shooty - predators, marines, drakes

both, kinda? - helbrutes

 

so far i'm finding the new morale an issue for large blobs of cultists, so I'd recommend min squads for them (force org permitting)

 

Aye, Cultists suffer from being 25% more expensive than Guardsmen, but with worse statlines, worse equipment options, and no Orders. I mean, we're not gonna sling a 70-odd point and HQ-slot babysitter in to reduce the amount of Cultists dispersing by 3. For it to even make sense from a point perspective, nevermind the HQ slot, we'd need him to save 14 to just break even. 

 

It's a pity really; they're currently just the cheapest troop tax, a role they had in 7th. You can take them as a shield for Huron (as they autopass Morale), which feels unfluffy, but if you have a few points to waste on Cultists, that seems the most solid way for me. 

Edited June 22, 2017 by ChazSexington

[CrimsonReign]

CrimsonReign, I guess Drakes are now in the "both" category

 

ahha, yeah I guess they now are :P

[CrimsonReign]

Chaz - I wasn't aware that cultists were more expensive than guardsmen

 

in 7th cultists were 4 to guards 5 (accounting for the lack of equipment)

 

the costs being swapped in 8th seems... ridiculous

 

i suppose this is what they meant when they said you'd see fewer cultists in 8th - you can't afford as many

[ChazSexington]

Chaz - I wasn't aware that cultists were more expensive than guardsmen

 

in 7th cultists were 4 to guards 5 (accounting for the lack of equipment)

 

the costs being swapped in 8th seems... ridiculous

 

i suppose this is what they meant when they said you'd see fewer cultists in 8th - you can't afford as many

 

I'll admit, it's had me scratching my head. Maybe I'm missing something in the Index that makes them worth their points. The only thing I see so far is Huron and Dark Apostle, but they're too good to waste babysitting Cultists. Honestly, having Huron, the Tyrant of Badab, charge into combat alongside Cultists feels decidedly unfluffy. 

[Galron]

For now I am sticking to the middle of the road route. Most of my army is midrange being bolters, plasma, and combi weapons, but I have my generalist terminators with plasma and CC weapons and a large assault-errr raptor squad. These are backed up by havocs, sicarians, and a scorpius. The goal is to swamp my opponent in rhino born squads under covering fire and see where it gets me. Terminators are saved for assassination missions which is something they excel at. A shame I don't get my Strike Wing detachment in 40k :(  I liked my Vultures.

[Commissar K.]

Are we a melee army, or are we a shooty army? Or both/neither?

 

Basically, where do you see CSMs now? What do you think the playstyle of 8th should be and what do you see working. I'm really eager to know people's thoughts, because we certainly can't beat Tyranids in hand to hand and we certainly can't shoot marines, Tau, and Eldar off the table either.

 

With that in mind...

 

1. Should we be building;

 

i) lists that close with the enemy asap?

ii) lists that shoot well?

iii) a mixture of the two?

 

2. Where does that leave us against say Tau, Eldar, and Tyranids?

 

3. What is your pick of the codex? What unit stands out as the best option & one you will feature in your lists.

While I havnt posted here since 5th, because I didn't play since 5th I'd say a lot of 5th design is back in Chaos again. More vanilla but the principle is the same.

 

So to me we are a mixture of the two. Based on:

- Death to the False Emperor, versus Imperium we always have a reason to engage.

- Forgefield, Maulerfiend, Obliterators, Defiler, Lord of Skulls, Helldrake... You name it a ton of our Daemonic Engines are build to have an awnser into melee aswell. This is the sole advantage our 'vechicles' have over Imperium variants with the same ranged principles. Ideally our opponents engage these Daemonic machines at some point, alternatively they respond to opponents enclosing so they can engage, not get killed, disengage and have our other forces continue the shooting.

 

I'd say both Tau and Eldare are likely to be set up to be the most difficult opponents for us, because we cannot play a game of out-shooting them and in many cases we cannot engage their Flyers so the game gets turned into our advantage (which is the mixture of the two). Basically their shooting generally out-counters us. We do have some awnsers against that but not woefully too many.

 

I think a lot of things are good in this edition, including our Codex. It's easier for me to say what I'm not thrilled about, those would be Warp Talons, Daemonic Troops, Daemon Prince of Chaos (note not the Daemon Prince, he's good). The prime reason is:

- Chaos has one issue and that is of Moral. Our biggies ignore that but going for something that is a monster but can still be targeted out does not seem like a solid plan. I do guess Daemons of Chaos can try and win on the back of HQ spam, it certainly seems a way for them to compremise the fact of weak to very mediocre Troop choices. 

- Warp Talons might sound like an odd one to mention but to me there are so many choices Chaos has that do something similar that I think their function is just too crowded. As an example Berzekers are allround more useful, a small pack of Bloodletters is more efficient at throw away and forget tactics they also seem to apply. Then, Spawns, just are a solid choice aswell.

 

In many cases the Chaos Index does feel like half an Index but against Imperium forces we should be capable to make it work. The prime reason I'm not too worried about Nids or Orks is because they play into our tactics quite well. Try to eat a Chaos Daemonic Engine, have it fall back and see how Rapid Fire works out for them.

 

As a World Eaters fan I do think that Death Guard, Thousand Sons and Emperors Children armies are better set up. Khorne Berzerkers are truely great if your opponent allows them to be great. The downside of this edition to my WE army is two-fold:

1. Falling back is always a better choice as staying into combat with Berzerkers

2. Flamers (Overwatch) just screw over T4/3+ combat orientated tactics. I can see Orks and Nids storm through it (by large due to immunity to Morale) but for Chaos melee to be efficient you need/want a Daemonic Engine, Daemon Prince or basically any model that ignores Morale and has that 5+ save on top of his regular save. 

 

The best part for me as such for us is actually any Daemonic Engine, the fact that they heal up makes them perfect for hit and run tactics. A tactic that is o so easy to apply because you only need to fall back 1.1" in the first place.

[ChazSexington]

- Warp Talons might sound like an odd one to mention but to me there are so many choices Chaos has that do something similar that I think their function is just too crowded. As an example Berzekers are allround more useful, a small pack of Bloodletters is more efficient at throw away and forget tactics they also seem to apply. Then, Spawns, just are a solid choice aswell.

 

 

 

 

What?

 

Berzerkers do not have the ability to Deep Strike 9" from the enemy and be Warptimed into an almost guaranteed (the odds of messing up a 6+, granted you re-roll one die is miniscule) charge, with no Overwatch allowed. 

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Yeah, I'm with Chaz.  All throughout 6th and 7th, the one thing we as a community always harped on about was how Warp Talons would be better if we just had scatter mitigation on deep strike.  Now we have it, and with Warp Time we have a way of pushing them into an assault out of deep strike.  Warp Talons are literally twice as fast, they Fly (with all the inherent advantages there), they have better AP values, and their I-save makes them sturdier.  Berzerkers are stronger and have more attacks.  Each has their own strengths: Talons are better against heavy infantry (which have better armor saves and tend to carry better-AP weapons, but do tend to field small squads) while Berzerkers are probably better against hordes thanks to their higher attack volume.

[TrexPushups]

 

 

Chaz - I wasn't aware that cultists were more expensive than guardsmen

 

in 7th cultists were 4 to guards 5 (accounting for the lack of equipment)

 

the costs being swapped in 8th seems... ridiculous

 

i suppose this is what they meant when they said you'd see fewer cultists in 8th - you can't afford as many

I'll admit, it's had me scratching my head. Maybe I'm missing something in the Index that makes them worth their points. The only thing I see so far is Huron and Dark Apostle, but they're too good to waste babysitting Cultists. Honestly, having Huron, the Tyrant of Badab, charge into combat alongside Cultists feels decidedly unfluffy.

I am happy to run the dark apostle to help baby sit the cultists.

 

2 reasons

 

1) I expect the cultists to be the front line ready to asorb charges and smites. I also expect them to keep my characters protected from shooting.

2) his re-roll to hit in melee is very nice for my chaos spawn, maulerfiend, and other choppy units.

[Commissar K.]

 

- Warp Talons might sound like an odd one to mention but to me there are so many choices Chaos has that do something similar that I think their function is just too crowded. As an example Berzekers are allround more useful, a small pack of Bloodletters is more efficient at throw away and forget tactics they also seem to apply. Then, Spawns, just are a solid choice aswell.

 

 

 

 

What?

 

Berzerkers do not have the ability to Deep Strike 9" from the enemy and be Warptimed into an almost guaranteed (the odds of messing up a 6+, granted you re-roll one die is miniscule) charge, with no Overwatch allowed. 

 

Good luck with them  if your happy with 28 points a model with a 3+/5++ with a sole anti-infantry melee purpose I'm happy too.

[ChazSexington]

 

 

- Warp Talons might sound like an odd one to mention but to me there are so many choices Chaos has that do something similar that I think their function is just too crowded. As an example Berzekers are allround more useful, a small pack of Bloodletters is more efficient at throw away and forget tactics they also seem to apply. Then, Spawns, just are a solid choice aswell.

 

 

 

 

What?

 

Berzerkers do not have the ability to Deep Strike 9" from the enemy and be Warptimed into an almost guaranteed (the odds of messing up a 6+, granted you re-roll one die is miniscule) charge, with no Overwatch allowed. 

 

Good luck with them  if your happy with 28 points a model with a 3+/5++ with a sole anti-infantry melee purpose I'm happy too.

 

 

They're different. Ppm, no, they don't beat Berzerkers in mêlée, but their use is different. Khorne Berzerkers need a transport and are best suited for chopping up light infantry - Warp Talons can deal with medium infantry and are more mobile.

 

I'm not saying Berzerkers are bad - quite the contrary! I think both look very good. Warp Talons are simply more versatile and mobile, but pay for it with a higher point cost.

Edited June 22, 2017 by ChazSexington

[Commissar K.]

 

They're different. Ppm, no, they don't beat Berzerkers in mêlée, but their use is different. Khorne Berzerkers need a transport and are best suited for chopping up light infantry - Warp Talons can deal with medium infantry and are more mobile.

 

I'm not saying Berzerkers are bad - quite the contrary! I think both look very good. Warp Talons are simply more versatile and mobile, but pay for it with a higher point cost.

 

The requirement of Transport for Berzerkers highly depends on the design of your army. If your heavy on the shooting transport is hardly required as they form a perfect awnser to oppossing offense aswell. On top of that the Champion strikes with S10 the moment you give him a Power Fist and can do so 6 times. The fact that this option isn't on the Warp Talons makes them a mono-awnser, ride a Tank into them and they can't do anything, basically not utilizing the strongest ability of the Flying rule.

 

I have no clue what your on about with Berzerkers not being able to handle medium infantry, as said, give the Power Fist a go :) Warp Talons are mobile but so are all Daemonic Troop options we have their purpose is much narrower as that of most other units, while paying skyrocket prices for them. 28 a model is no joke, I can't see Warp Talons live up to that cost under any scenario, especially because they are so mono-purpose.

[ChazSexington]

 

 

They're different. Ppm, no, they don't beat Berzerkers in mêlée, but their use is different. Khorne Berzerkers need a transport and are best suited for chopping up light infantry - Warp Talons can deal with medium infantry and are more mobile.

 

I'm not saying Berzerkers are bad - quite the contrary! I think both look very good. Warp Talons are simply more versatile and mobile, but pay for it with a higher point cost.

 

The requirement of Transport for Berzerkers highly depends on the design of your army. If your heavy on the shooting transport is hardly required as they form a perfect awnser to oppossing offense aswell. On top of that the Champion strikes with S10 the moment you give him a Power Fist and can do so 6 times. The fact that this option isn't on the Warp Talons makes them a mono-awnser, ride a Tank into them and they can't do anything, basically not utilizing the strongest ability of the Flying rule.

 

I have no clue what your on about with Berzerkers not being able to handle medium infantry, as said, give the Power Fist a go Warp Talons are mobile but so are all Daemonic Troop options we have their purpose is much narrower as that of most other units, while paying skyrocket prices for them. 28 a model is no joke, I can't see Warp Talons live up to that cost under any scenario, especially because they are so mono-purpose.

 

 

Power fist is for the Champion only, mind. Chainaxes for everyone else. AP -1 isn't going to do enough against Terminators, and the +1 S isn't as good as re-rolling failed to wound rolls. 

 

From the games I've played of 8th, power armour still needs transports. This edition has made everything squishier, while costing most things the same. My opponent (with two squads of Primaris plasma guys and a Whirlwind) was blasting a squad of power armour off the table at 15"+. Whenever I closed, I would lose two squads. 

 

Again, it depends on your list, but I think Warp Talons and Berzerkers are both absolutely solid choices. Hell, used in conjunction, you could make Falling Back impossible by cleverly placing Warp Talons behind the enemy while they get charged by Berzerkers, then summon something the next turn, and probably routing a significant portion of an army. 

[Commissar K.]

 

 

 

They're different. Ppm, no, they don't beat Berzerkers in mêlée, but their use is different. Khorne Berzerkers need a transport and are best suited for chopping up light infantry - Warp Talons can deal with medium infantry and are more mobile.

 

I'm not saying Berzerkers are bad - quite the contrary! I think both look very good. Warp Talons are simply more versatile and mobile, but pay for it with a higher point cost.

 

The requirement of Transport for Berzerkers highly depends on the design of your army. If your heavy on the shooting transport is hardly required as they form a perfect awnser to oppossing offense aswell. On top of that the Champion strikes with S10 the moment you give him a Power Fist and can do so 6 times. The fact that this option isn't on the Warp Talons makes them a mono-awnser, ride a Tank into them and they can't do anything, basically not utilizing the strongest ability of the Flying rule.

 

I have no clue what your on about with Berzerkers not being able to handle medium infantry, as said, give the Power Fist a go Warp Talons are mobile but so are all Daemonic Troop options we have their purpose is much narrower as that of most other units, while paying skyrocket prices for them. 28 a model is no joke, I can't see Warp Talons live up to that cost under any scenario, especially because they are so mono-purpose.

 

 

Power fist is for the Champion only, mind. Chainaxes for everyone else. AP -1 isn't going to do enough against Terminators, and the +1 S isn't as good as re-rolling failed to wound rolls. 

 

From the games I've played of 8th, power armour still needs transports. This edition has made everything squishier, while costing most things the same. My opponent (with two squads of Primaris plasma guys and a Whirlwind) was blasting a squad of power armour off the table at 15"+. Whenever I closed, I would lose two squads. 

 

Again, it depends on your list, but I think Warp Talons and Berzerkers are both absolutely solid choices. Hell, used in conjunction, you could make Falling Back impossible by cleverly placing Warp Talons behind the enemy while they get charged by Berzerkers, then summon something the next turn, and probably routing a significant portion of an army. 

 

I think AP -1 will do enough against Terminators, especially as they have a 5++ anyway or 3++ in some cases to which more AP doesn't matter. 

Re-rolling to wound at the cost of being twice the cost of a marine without being twice as survivable just doesn't add up to something reliable enough. 

 

Power armour in general doesn't require transport, what it requires is good ranged support. Razorback spam in SM is cool but isn't added for the transport, it's simply there because it gains you cheap acces to a body that can tie up units whilst granting ranged support before that. 

 

I think Warp Talons are too much at 28 points, especially since the champ cannot obtain a Power Fist or any other weapon. They are amongst the unfortunate Chaos units that cannot handle being in melee with a Vechicle and do something about it. By comparison a unit of Warp Talons easily costs as much as a Heldrake and that has added survival, a first turn strike and can dis-engage whilst still being lethal.

 

Im not saying Berzerkers are amazing either but at 16 a piece they don't have to be, as a good unit with fist is still cheap. Warp Talons quickly go above and beyond the 200+ points while they arn't any tougher as your regular marine. 

[Dallas Drake]

 

 

Chaz - I wasn't aware that cultists were more expensive than guardsmen

 

in 7th cultists were 4 to guards 5 (accounting for the lack of equipment)

 

the costs being swapped in 8th seems... ridiculous

 

i suppose this is what they meant when they said you'd see fewer cultists in 8th - you can't afford as many

I'll admit, it's had me scratching my head. Maybe I'm missing something in the Index that makes them worth their points. The only thing I see so far is Huron and Dark Apostle, but they're too good to waste babysitting Cultists. Honestly, having Huron, the Tyrant of Badab, charge into combat alongside Cultists feels decidedly unfluffy.

I am happy to run the dark apostle to help baby sit the cultists.

 

2 reasons

 

1) I expect the cultists to be the front line ready to asorb charges and smites. I also expect them to keep my characters protected from shooting.

2) his re-roll to hit in melee is very nice for my chaos spawn, maulerfiend, and other choppy units.

 

 

I'm kinda thinking the same thing. Cultists are the unworthy rabble who willingly throw themselves into the fray to save their dark masters. Huron should be using them as a shield to take the charge, then him and his Chosen or whatever can double-tap & charge in to wipe the floor.

 

Cultists though... My gut wants to go with blobs of 20-30 Cultists, but morale does hurt them and 10 man units do seem a little more dispossible... Then again, my big concern with 10 man units is they pretty force us to be MSU which has further implications on setting up & getting the first turn. Not to mention, a good player will probably multi-charge or consolidate into several units that are close by so is it even worth it?

 

I've got to be honest, I'm not blown away by going too melee focussed (unless multiple Berserker units which I haven't tried but hear good things about). I tried running Maulerfiends, Helbrutes and Spawn which was okay against SMs, IG and Mechanicum. But against Tyranids my melee list got owned hard, as I like taking 'all-comers' and playing half-arsed competitively in the odd tournament I need to find a balance where I can defeat a gun-line or Imperial army but not get tanked by say Nids/Orks.

 

I am probably sticking with my Havocs with Heavy Bolters, with a Lord nearby 24 x S5 shots that re-roll 1s is good against anything <T5 which is what they're there for, just don't roll 2s! I also like plasma a lot this edition, again re-rolling 1s is sweet and S7/S8 is useful to have. Havocs or Chosen with 4-6 combi-plasmas are a great unit. I like the cost effectiveness of Havocs but personally I think I'd go Chosen as they're a bit better when close up to the enemy too with the extra attack and a Champ that can be tooled up like a mini-Lord 'lite'.

 

Heldrakes, brilliant for me so far. Not as great against Nids but I'd be stuck without them dealing with fast flyers and other fast moving skimmer type units. I'm going to try out an Auto/Las Predator too a few more times to see if it's worth over 200 points, it's done okay so far tbf.

[Commissar K.]

If you can make the Cultists immume to Morale I guess there is something to say for them. Granted I dont think Cultists are the way to go for most Chaos armies, as they are neither really shooty, really tarpit or melee. If you still want something like it I'd rather pick a Daemon troop or Poxwalkers. I have read some players not liking where Death Guard are right now but Poxwalkers with Thypus are completely legit, more legit as any Daemon. With a S/T4 and 2 attacks it's the closest thing we can get to Orks and their cost is close to it aswell. To me a real swarm has those stats and costs 8 or less. It's unfortunatly also why I don't think I'll play Bloodletters any time soon.

@Dallas Drake, I really want to state it again that we are indeed both, which some might dislike. We have a reason to go melee into any Imperium force and we have reason to not do so against several Xenos forces (though obviously not all). Again this is why I like Daemonic Engines for example because they more or less fit that design.
We cant do a Razorback spam but we can bring 3 Forgefiends with Hades Autocannons and if you supply them with a Chaos Lord or someone who allows for re-rolls I do believe you can present a gunline type of army supported by melee. 

All in all though it REALLY depends on what kind of Chaos army you have in mind. Heavy melee and heavy ranged are options but typically those who care for the Legion designs benifit from going one route or another. World Eaters for example is the only faction really "forced" to melee, while I see Thousand Sons, Death Guard and Emp Children easily as forces to go heavier on the shooting with.

2. To come back to point 2, where it leaves us aganst Mob-armies is that we have to respect the fact that going combined-arms is a 'better' choice for practically any army. Include Flamers and the like, ideally bring a wave of something that can soack up a charge.

3. To go a bit deeper into the prime picks:
- Most named characters. They all have a great function if you ask me. Be'lakor is sick as he matches what we used to have in "super power" Daemon Princes.
- Daemon Prince with Wings and Talons. It's 180 points (cheap to normal cost of cheap unit) and without doubt can thake back that cost. It's also a character with 8 wounds which is not 10 which is perfect versus ranged heavy armies like Tau, Eldar and the likes.
- Sorcerers, any model that has acces to Warp Time is a model that is a worthy pick. The power is so good that I feel Chaos is designed around it. The other Psychic Powers of Chaos are just great aswell.
- The 4 god specific units are all great but so are your regula CSM, mix and match as you like. This boils down more to preferance as anything else.
- I like Obliterators. They seem costly and they are but at the same time you also have to factor in that double Meltagun would cost 34 points (and thats where I'd pretty much put Fleshmetal guns at seperate) meaning that you pay roughly 31 points for that body, while a regular Terminator costs the same as that and has one less wound. 
*Obiliterators require good placement but I think they are not bad at all and can be exactly what you want for grabbing objectives. Just ensure that enemies cannot reach them easily. The advantage once again however is that they do enfore an enemy to come to us. Which is playing into Chaos' advantage. 
- Heldrake, if you do not want to go on heavier ranged support the Heldrake does something that is exclusive to it within the game. It's a great choice though less apt to deal with swarms. As it's design really is made to be a great answer against heavy ranged offense and then attrition out against that.
- Havocs with Heavy Bolters indeed are an excellent cheap anti-swarm tool. 
- Forgefiends with double Hades autocannons and character back up seem like a fantastic option aswell.
- Defiler with character back up seems legit aswell.

World Eaters:
- Khârn whispering Kill, Maim, Burn into the ears of Daemonic Engines is great. Berzerkers are cool too but again on the end of a spectrum Chaos cannot always be (melee)

Thousand Sons:
- Magnus is sick, Rubric Marines are sweet.
*I would use Daemons to support TS by large because of otherwise Morale issues again.

Death Guard:
- Set up really well in general. Thypus does feel like a mandatory pick. Poxwalkers are fantastically obnoxious. You do need Thypus to do that but hey, do it.

Emperor's Children:
- I don't think Lucius is enough of an incentive to play them. The Noise Marines are excellent but also are excellent for an Elite pick, so the gain seems minimal. The difference between Lucius and Khârn is also easy to oversee, as Khârn only affects within 1" but allows for failed rerolls not just 1's and that makes him so potentially good with several Daemonic Engines.

Chaos Daemons:
- All Greater Daemons
- All named characters
- Basically the HQ's
*I wouldn't want to run mono-Daemon. I know we can create massive blobs with them aswell but they become very expensive quickly whilst not being as sturdy as space marines but sharing a very similar cost. I personally think that running Daemons in a regular HQ,HQ,Tr,Tr,Tr setting is actually very hard to do. However remember that this edition we don't have to do this either and monster-mash is a legit choice into AM, Tau and Eldari in my opinion. 

- Typical Flying, Flamer and T8 units are a solid choice if you can find the room for them. Though Id say this is typical for 40K 8th ed.