Rocmistro: 8th edition batreps and impressions/thoughts

[9x19 Parabellum]

Hello:

 

So this will be my first game batrep summary and thoughts.

 

The Armies:

100 Power Raven Guard vs. 100 Power Thousand Sons

 

Raven Guard in a Battalion

HQ1: Shrike

HQ2: Librarian, force staff

 

Tr1: 10 Tacs, heavy bolter, meltagun, powerfist

Tr2: 10 scouts, heavy bolter, thunder hammer and combi-melta

Tr3: 5 scouts, snipers, camo

Tr4: 5 scouts, heavy bolter, and chainsword

 

E1: 5 Vanguard Vets, jump packs, 10x lightning claws

E2: 1 Chapter Ancient, power sword

 

F1: 5 Assault Marines, all with bolt pistol and chainsword

F2: 3 Bikes, 1 combi plasma and 2 plasma guns

 

H1: 3 Grav Centurions, hurricane bolter in chest

H2: 1 Hunter, storm bolter, hunter killer missile

 

DT1: Rhino (for tacs), storm bolter, hunter killer missile

DT2: Land Speeder Storm, for 5x scouts, heavy bolter, cerberus launcher

 

*note, I actually miscalculated this and it was 101 power. I forgot to add the +1 power to the Vanguard Vets. For some reason, I thought VV came stock with jump packs.

Post-game points totaling:  1785

 

Thousand Sons in Battalion

(not sure what each unit counts as for force org, so just going to list them out)

Ahriman

Sorcerer on disc of tzeentch

 

10 Rubric Marines, not sure of guns

10 Rubric Marines, not sure of guns

10 Tzaangor, not sure of loadout (never made it out of rhino)

10 Tzaangor, not sure of loadout (never made it out of rhino)

1 Tzeentch Screamer Chariot (taken as a summoned choice)

5 Occult Terminators

1 Renegade Imperial Knight (battle cannon and power gauntlet)

2 Rhinos (transports for the 2 Tzaangor units)

 

Post-game points totaling:  1986

 

Thousand Sons deployed objectives 2nd, which means he was able to choose deployment map (Hammer and Anvil). Mission was Cleanse and Capture.  He chose the deployment side that was more fully loaded with objective markers and deployed per the map below:

http://i.imgur.com/pxrjupc.jpg

Edited July 10, 2017 by Rocmistro

[9x19 Parabellum]

Thousand Sons, Turn 1.

 

So turn 1 definitely caught me off guard.  Lots of psychic and shooting poured into my 10 scouts in front and after they were down, shooting continued into the 3 Gravturions behind them.   Net result is 10 Scouts dead and 2 Gravturions dead, the other with 1 wound left.

 

Occult Termies deep striked into my backfield and "smited" / shot up my librarian, killing him without so much as a "how do you do?".

 

His objectives were area denial, secure objective (1 or 5, can't remember which) and blood and guts.  With the scouts dead, he got area denial for 12", which was d3.  Rolled a 6 and, along with first blood, took the lead 5-0. 

 

http://i.imgur.com/lOT8Jtl.jpg

Edited June 23, 2017 by Rocmistro

[9x19 Parabellum]

Raven Guard Turn 1.

 

For objectives I pulled Secure Objective 2, Master the Warp and Secure Objective 4.  I spent a command point to reroll "Master the Warp" since my librarian was dead and instead got "Area Denial" (the same one my opponent just had).  No chance for the 12" but the 6" was a guarantee so we stayed with that.

 

Tac marines disembark from Rhino to shoot and then charge Termies. Rhino moves up to secure objective 2;  storm bolter kills 1 Rubric Marine

 

Last Centurion and Chapter Ancient move back to help with Termies.  Shooting takes out 2 Termies. Declare charges, overwatch kills last Centurion and 4 tacs. (Ouch.) close combat kills another termie and no RG casualties.

 

Scout Snipers kill 1 Rubric Marine (mortal wound).

Everyone else pours shots into Top Rhino, taking about 4 wounds off in total shooting.

Vanguard Vets and Assault Marines charge in, make the charge (thank you shrike), finish off the Rhino, and the tzaangors have no way to deploy because I had the vehicle surrounded with pile in moves.

Shrike sits on Objective 4 to claim it, although he's in a lovely place to get shot to pieces.

 

RG score 3 victory points. 

http://i.imgur.com/ry6Pi0f.jpg

Edited June 23, 2017 by Rocmistro

[9x19 Parabellum]

Thousand Sons, Turn 2.

 

As expected, Shrike took a lot of shooting.   The knight poured everything into him, knocking him down to 2 wounds.  The Chariot got summoned in psychic phase and (I think, I can't remember exactly here) split fire between Shrike and the vanguard vets.  The Sorcerer and "top" unit of Rubric Marines all poured fire into the Vanguard Vets and the Assault Marines.  There was also more Smites and other pyschic. I can't remember the exact sequence of and exact events here, but the net result was: Shrike dead, 4 vanguard vets dead and 1 assault marine dead.

 

On the "bottom", the Rubric marines moved up and put some guns on my Rhino (now empty) camping objective 2. Ahriman did something also.  The other Rhino with 10 Tzaangor moved and advanced up.

 

There were no charges/assaults, and the fight phase saw the 2 Occult Termies trying to take down my chapter ancient (no luck), while i similarly whiffed against him.

 

I don't remember exactly what tactical objects were drawn this round, but along with killing my Warlord (Shrike), Thousand Sons got another 5 victory points this turn, bringing the total to 10-3.

 

http://i.imgur.com/SpLhbJm.jpg

Edited June 23, 2017 by Rocmistro

[9x19 Parabellum]

Raven Guard, Turn 2.

 

For objectives I pulled "defend objective 3", secure objective 6 and one other I can't remember but had no chance of getting.

 

As it was almost 1 AM (we play D&D until about 10:00 on thursdays with our group, and this particular D&D session ran late, so we didn't really get started until around 11 PM, plus unfamiliarity with the rules really slowed down the game), we agreed this would be the last game round.

 

My now empty Rhino moved back to camp on objective 3. 

 

Scout Snipers, Bikers and Land Speeder Storm all moved up to pour fire into the "top" rubric marines.  Vanguard Vet and Assault Marine moved up to shoot and then charge into Rubric Marines.  All said and done, including close combat, brought that group down to 3 guys left.  I should also note the Land Speeder storm charged into combat...2 attacks hitting on 3's yeah baby!

 

The hunter got a nice shot on the Chariot, doing 6 wounds. 

 

The combat on the far right flank between tac marines + chapter ancient vs. termies saw 1 more termie die and no RG casualties.

We called it there, 10-3 for the Thousand Sons, even if we added in the 2 points I probably would have gotten for defending objective 3, and assuming my opponent got NO victory points going on turn 3, still would have been killing me with a 10-5 score.  It was late, and I was pretty tired and demoralized at this point.

 

http://i.imgur.com/LCNuPwz.jpg

Edited June 23, 2017 by Rocmistro

[9x19 Parabellum]

Thoughts, impressions, post mortem, etc.

 

My dice were just terrible for this battle, but I also put my scouts and centurions too far forward, thinking cover was going to help more.  I was also really surprised at the amount of psychic damage that came on turn 1 through "Smite". Those mortal wounds were just awful and ripped apart my  Centurions and my Librarian pretty quick.

 

We did a post game analysis of points (even though we were "matched" at 100 power for this game.)

 

My points were 1785 and I think he said his were 1986...so 200 points difference despite being the same power, and I can definitely tell you I "felt" it.  It seemed as if I was outgunned and certainly outpsyched all over the place.

 

I like the alternating deployment...reminds me of the old days of fantasy.

 

Getting 1st turn seems immensely powerful now, even more-so than it did in 7th edition.  With putting stuff in reserve that can in-errantly come down on turn 1 where you want it. Yeah, brutal. There is no hiding. It obviously affects list tailoring in that you want to have a small elite force to make sure you finish your deployment to get turn 1.

 

The IGOUGO method of resolving combat wasn't as whacked out as I thought it was going to be.

 

The results of opponents turn 1 really took the wind out of my sails. I felt very raw and outmatched, for this game, but hey, its only 1 game, so too soon to make a decision on.  I did not feel like the game offered the tactical depth that 7th edition had, but I'm very willing to acknowledge that could be lack of data points.  I can certainly tell you that it did not leave me wanting for more.  (I mean more of 8th edition specifically. I always want to play more 40k

 

My opponent played well with placement of objectives.  I definitely got tricked into "playing his game" and going into the lion's den, as it were. I should have deployed far more defensively and limited his shooting and psychic phases, not worrying about contesting objectives at the risk of getting a quarter of my army slaughtered on turn 1.

Edited June 23, 2017 by Rocmistro

[9x19 Parabellum]

A couple other things:

 

Hunter...eh. Not worth it.

 

Bolters.  Something felt off with what used to be an AP: 5 weapon now being AP nil.  Compared to the Rubric marines bolters firing at -2 to saves, and their +1 "all is dust" bonus to saves and I can tell you I definitely felt outclassed.  Putting wounds on them was just horrible and they were ripping me apart.

 

Chapter Ancient: I might give him another shot but so far not impressed.

 

Centurions: no longer the beefcakes they used to be.

 

Bikes: good mobile gun platform. Forget about close combat with them.

 

Sniper Rifles: much ado about nothing, IMHO.

 

Assault Marines: really bad, but I think we knew that.

 

Vanguard Vets: lightning claws did great...but man everything (meaning, expensive space marines) just seems to die so easily now.

[Filius]

Thanks for the super detailed Report. I'm impressed. Thanks!

 

Two thought from "pure" theory or rather based on the fluff …

 

First: 200 old school Points in a nearly 2000 Points difference within a 100 Power Points matched Games, means that the variation of the Powerpoints is about 10%. Good to know.

 

On the other hand … I hadn't assumed that anyone around here would use the Power Points to balance a game. But now that I am builind lists myself, I see the attraction of it: It really is muuuch faster, although it's much more inacurate …

 

Second: "No hiding" is a kind of sad for a Raven Guard Army Player. Sorry to hear that!

 

Third: Sounds a bit like using the Primaris as Meatshield could be a way to integrate them into an Raven Guard Force …

[Filius]

A couple other things:

 

*snip*

 

Vanguard Vets: lightning claws did great...but man everything (meaning, expensive space marines) just seems to die so easily now.

 

Hmm … it sounds like this didn't happen by accident. It probably makes the game faster. Is 2 hours for 4 turns long (compared to 7th and compared to what happend during the game)?

 

[9x19 Parabellum]

Thanks for the super detailed Report. I'm impressed. Thanks!

 

Two thought from "pure" theory or rather based on the fluff …

 

First: 200 old school Points in a nearly 2000 Points difference within a 100 Power Points matched Games, means that the variation of the Powerpoints is about 10%. Good to know.

 

On the other hand … I hadn't assumed that anyone around here would use the Power Points to balance a game. But now that I am builind lists myself, I see the attraction of it: It really is muuuch faster, although it's much more inacurate …

 

Second: "No hiding" is a kind of sad for a Raven Guard Army Player. Sorry to hear that!

 

Third: Sounds a bit like using the Primaris as Meatshield could be a way to integrate them into an Raven Guard Force …

 

Yeah. It can be at LEAST 10% variation.  Maybe more.  Then again, that assumes that the "point" method is correct (or more accurate).

 

Building by power rating is waay faster, as you already noted.  I've pretty much already broken the spine of my Imperium 1 codex by constantly flipping back and forth between points and data slates.

 

"No hiding" is relative, of course.  It really just means you need to be more thoughtful in your deployment.  I'm sure there is a way to do this.

 

I think vehicles will be the primary meatshields, not primaris. I had to focus 5 units' worth of shooting and 2 units' worth of close combat to take down a single Rhino.  I'm already seeing that mechanized infantry is the way to go.

[WAR]

Great BatRep

[9x19 Parabellum]

 

A couple other things:

 

*snip*

 

Vanguard Vets: lightning claws did great...but man everything (meaning, expensive space marines) just seems to die so easily now.

 

Hmm … it sounds like this didn't happen by accident. It probably makes the game faster. Is 2 hours for 4 turns long (compared to 7th and compared to what happend during the game)?

 

 

My buddy and i typically played 1250-1500 pt "late night lists" of 7th edition after D&D at my house, from 10 PM to 1 AM.  In 3 hours, we could generally setup a game of 40k and get to round 5 or 6. 

 

Last night we didn't start until about 11. In 2 hours we got 2 full turns done. I had 50 total models (3 vehicles) and my opponent had 51 total models (4 vehicles).  Our average "model count" in the past was probably closer to 40 models, so this was a bigger game, and that shows in the point totals of our lists, so it makes sense that it would take a littler longer.  Add to that deployment takes longer, and more "action" seems to be happening right from Turn 1.  It feels like in this version of the game, Deployment = 7th edition Turn 1, and Turn 1 = 7th edition Turn 2.  So this version definitely gets you right into the action.  That means you need to think more about deployment since you have toggling deployments which gives you some reactive ability.   That all takes longer.   The turns themselves...it's tough to gauge because there was a LOT of rules/weapons referencing and checking things to make sure we were doing it right.

 

Personally, I'm not convinced the game is really going to be that much faster one way or the other.

[Filius]

 

Thanks for the super detailed Report. I'm impressed. Thanks!

 

Two thought from "pure" theory or rather based on the fluff …

 

First: 200 old school Points in a nearly 2000 Points difference within a 100 Power Points matched Games, means that the variation of the Powerpoints is about 10%. Good to know.

 

On the other hand … I hadn't assumed that anyone around here would use the Power Points to balance a game. But now that I am builind lists myself, I see the attraction of it: It really is muuuch faster, although it's much more inacurate …

 

Second: "No hiding" is a kind of sad for a Raven Guard Army Player. Sorry to hear that!

 

Third: Sounds a bit like using the Primaris as Meatshield could be a way to integrate them into an Raven Guard Force …

 

*snip*

 

Building by power rating is waay faster, as you already noted.  I've pretty much already broken the spine of my Imperium 1 codex by constantly flipping back and forth between points and data slates.

 

 

Ouch. I already though about photocopying the Pages with the Points!    

 

 

I think vehicles will be the primary meatshields, not primaris. I had to focus 5 units' worth of shooting and 2 units' worth of close combat to take down a single Rhino.  I'm already seeing that mechanized infantry is the way to go.

 

Ah. Right! Of course! Stormravens for the Ravens! 

 

 

 

*snip*

 

Personally, I'm not convinced the game is really going to be that much faster one way or the other.

 

 

Thanks a lot for the long explanation. That sounds reasonable! Sadly. I was hoping for a faster Game … but I'll see.

 

Thanks again!

[Race Bannon]

This was so awesome.  Now you have to do it like this forever

 

I want to reread this for more thoughts.

[9x19 Parabellum]

 

Thanks a lot for the long explanation. That sounds reasonable! Sadly. I was hoping for a faster Game … but I'll see.

 

Thanks again!

 

 

As I said, I'm simply "not convinced" it's going to be a shorter game.  Time will tell and YMMV.  That's not a criticism of this edition, by the way; I never really minded 3-4 hour 40k games. 

[9x19 Parabellum]

This was so awesome.  Now you have to do it like this forever

 

I want to reread this for more thoughts.

 

Thanks Race! Kindly inform my clients that Friday is off limits because I need to write batreps from Thursday night gaming, and you're sure to get them every week!

[Race Bannon]

:lol:  Send me their emails ;)

 

 

That's a joke.

[Claws and Effect]

I think games will probably go faster once you have the new rules down enough to not have to look stuff up or second guess what you're doing.

[Jacques Corbin]

Love love love the charts!

[Kua]

Yes, they are great. ^^

Remind me on ’90s WD battle reports.

 

Looking forward for the next one, hopefully more close and less a steamroll.

So that you can judge the units better after actually making them work.

[9x19 Parabellum]

Played 2 games Saturday night at FLGS.

 

They were what I call "Gonzo" games, so not doing a full battle report.

 

The first game was a team game:

Blood Angels and Raven Guard (me) vs.  stinky combined Xenos forces of Tau and Necrons.

Each person brought 50 power.  The lists were, as I remember:

 

Blood Angels:

Captain (don't remember loadout)

5 Scouts with CCW and Bolt Pistol

10 Guardsmen with lasguns (he had just finished painting these guys and wanted to use them)

Lascannon Predator

Land Raider

5 JP Vanguard Vets (don't remember loadout)

 

Raven Guard: (me)

JP Chaplain (TH & Plasma Pistol)

5 JP Vanguard Vets (4x pairs of lightning claw and 1x TH/SS)

10 Scouts w/ bolters (1 Heavy Bolter and Sgt with TH/combi melta)

5 Scouts with Sniper Rifles

1 Imperial Space Marine

1 Land Raider Crusader

 

Necrons:

2x 10 Gauss Immortals

2x Necron Overlords

2x Triarch Stalkers

1x Heavy Destroyer

 

Tau:

A crapload of infantry. I can't remember exactly what.

2x 10 Fire Warriors Teams

1x ? Breacher Team

2x ? Pathfinder Teams

2x 3 Stealth Suit teams

1 Etheral

1 Some other single character model...a Crisis Suit dude that shot on 2+

2 or 3 Missile Garbage Cans

drone thingies

 

(edit: more to come)

[Jacques Corbin]

Lol, that is about accurate for Taurus! I have a Veteran Assault Sergeant, that I dry brushed Temple Guard Blue on the soles of his boots after he mangled squad after squad of Tau infantry and Crisis Suits.

[9x19 Parabellum]

Lol, that is about accurate for Taurus! I have a Veteran Assault Sergeant, that I dry brushed Temple Guard Blue on the soles of his boots after he mangled squad after squad of Tau infantry and Crisis Suits.

 

Unfortunately, we never got to stomp Tau guts into the ground. We had to take care of Immortals first and met with limited success.

 

The long and short of it is that both of our Jump Pack VV were loaded into Land Raiders; his shot up the left flank and mine the center.

 

On turn 2 (we went first), I engage 10 immortals in the right center and he engages the 10 on the flank.  He ate one casualty to overwatch; I survived overwatch unscathed. That 1 model and my JP Chaplain made all the difference. My vanguard vets wiped out 10 immortals (Lightning claws). His combat left 3 immortals standing.  i consolidated into his Overlord and Triarch stalker.

 

On their turn 2, they disengaged with all of their Necrons, and Tau shot us both to pieces, but on my flank, at least the immortals were dead.  By the end of the game, that 3 man immortal unit was back to full strength.  The Overlord and the Triarch Stalker on my end, both of whom had taken some wounds, were back up to full health.

 

And I can tell you, that (the way Necron RP works now) is some frustrating bullcrap.

After our initial Vanguard Vet charge, we got slowly steamrolled. We did get good objectives, though, so the the game was an 11-10 victory for filthy xenos.   We *almost* got tabled.  The last turn was down to my single Scout sergeant with thunderhammer and multimelta duking it out with 2 Triarch stalkers in the middle. He refused to die and put a crapload of wounds on Triarch stalkers with Thunderhammer.

 

Looking at the table at the end of the game, though, I can't see how anyone could not think Tau and Necrons are still not top tier.  Victory points aside, we (BA and RG) got our asses handed to us.

 

The Good:

 

Land Raiders are every bit as dependable as people are saying.

 

Lightning Claw.  Between a chaplain and rerollable wounds for LC's (with a new wound table that lets you wound even the 'heavy' stuff on 5's, lighting claws got some serious work done.

 

Twin Assault Cannon. Absolutely monstrous.

 

The Bad:

Bolters.  Bolters were never great, but the way cover stacks to AS now, and the fact that bolters have nil for AP...they just aren't accomplishing a whole lot. 

[9x19 Parabellum]

Batrep #3.

 

Raven Guard vs. Tau

100 Power

Mission: Cleanse and Control

Map: standard long-table-edge 12" deployment zones

First Turn: Raven Guard (Tau fail to seize)

 

Lists:

 

Raven Guard (1 battalion)

Captain on foot, relic blade, plasma pistol (5)

Librarian jump pack, force stave, plasma pistol (7)

 

10 Scouts, camo, 8 bolters, 1 heavy bolter, thunderhammer and combi-melta on sgt (10)

10 Scouts, camo,9 sniper rifles, 1 missile (10)

5 Scouts, camo, 4 sniper, 1 missile (6)

 

5 Vanguard Vets, jump packs, 8x lightning claws, 1 thunderhammer and stormshield on sgt (8)

Apothecary on foot (3)

 

3 bikes, 2x meltaguns and 1x combi-melta (6)

5 assault marines on foot, 2x flamers and 1x combi-flamer (5)

 

1 Land Raider Crusader Ajax, multi-melta, stormbolter (17)

3 Gravturions w/ hurricane bolters (17)

1 Hunter, stormbolter (6)

 

Tau (1 spearhead and 1 outrider detachments)

2 Commanders with Fusion Guns (that's Tau melta, right)

 

6 Broadsides, all with double missile pods

 

5 units of 4 marker light drones

 

2 units of 3 crisis suits, can't remember armaments but they had 36" range.

 

Deployment and 1st turns coming next!

[Race Bannon]

Using power levels?! That's impressive by itself. Pics yo!