Rocmistro: 8th edition batreps and impressions/thoughts

[Race Bannon]

And this is why Primarchs should have stayed in text. In my very humble opinion.

[Shadow Captain Vyper]

I mean if you look at the army construction terms the game was designed to be retarded.

 

One guy is basically playing 3k points with two primarchs against two separate 1.5k forces.

 

An army at 1500 points is going to struggle to bring the right tools to bear to kill a primarch (hence why they are limited to bigger games in HH), also why most tournament structure doesn't like dropping below 2k in the current edition.

 

The smaller a game gets (in terms of points), the more imbalanced large LoW style units feel.

 

If you played against a 3k guard player that brought two Baneblade equivalents while you both brought relatively fluffy lists, I expect you would find yourself in a similar situation.

 

There are lots of ways to win a game like this, but in my opinion they are all stupid. I probably would have never played this type of game to start, and if I had, I would have gone into it with the expectation of losing, but a fun opportunity to forge a narrative.

[9x19 Parabellum]

I mean if you look at the army construction terms the game was designed to be retarded.

 

One guy is basically playing 3k points with two primarchs against two separate 1.5k forces.

 

An army at 1500 points is going to struggle to bring the right tools to bear to kill a primarch (hence why they are limited to bigger games in HH), also why most tournament structure doesn't like dropping below 2k in the current edition.

 

The smaller a game gets (in terms of points), the more imbalanced large LoW style units feel.

 

If you played against a 3k guard player that brought two Baneblade equivalents while you both brought relatively fluffy lists, I expect you would find yourself in a similar situation.

 

There are lots of ways to win a game like this, but in my opinion they are all stupid. I probably would have never played this type of game to start, and if I had, I would have gone into it with the expectation of losing, but a fun opportunity to forge a narrative.

 

In fairness to my opponent, who was also one of my best friends, he told me ahead of time he was going to be bringing both primarchs.  That somewhat eased the sting of ridiculousness, but not entirely.  It's a little bit like someone telling you they are about to kick you in the nuts, and then kick you in the nuts.  And it should be maintained he also created 2 separate lists of 1500 pts of Thousand Sons and Deathguard Respectively.

 

That  being said, we were also trying to get the third player involved in 40k, who has never really played.  Given that part of the goal was recruitment, I thought it was a very bad decision.

 

Regardless of all that, I still maintain the primarchs are garbage.  Dedicating 800 points of close combat troops over several rounds  and still not being able to take down a primarch is horsecrap. Tell me what the hell else should have been able to bring down a primarch if not 2 big squads of death company, buffed by Corbs, Lemartes and Mephi, with an assault squad, and tac squad in support.

 

And Magnus tanking 1200 points of shooting over 3 rounds is equally ridiculous. Lascannons mean :cuss when you have a 3+ invuln and rerolling 1's.  "Praying for 2's" is not a strategy nor something I want in a strategy game.   And the off chance he does roll a 2, he still has Command Points.  So basically i needed 36 lascannon shots that actually wounded to ensure 1 got through...still only averaging 3.5 wounds.

 

I'm sure I'll get over it, but this is the kind of game that makes me want to stop playing 40k altogether.

[Shadow Captain Vyper]

 

In fairness to my opponent, who was also one of my best friends, he told me ahead of time he was going to be bringing both primarchs.  That somewhat eased the sting of ridiculousness, but not entirely.  It's a little bit like someone telling you they are about to kick you in the nuts, and then kick you in the nuts.  And it should be maintained he also created 2 separate lists of 1500 pts of Thousand Sons and Deathguard Respectively.

 

 

I seriously lol'd at this comment.

 

Its a rough prospect. In hindsight, that sort of list being used to play against a new/prospective player is a very poor choice for sure.

 

On the other side of the coin, the correct tools were not brought for the job.

 

Mortarion is designed not to be bogged down by hordes, and you guys hand delivered a horde that is not only not threatening to him, but that which he can kill nearly as easily as he can termagants, however death-company clock in at 4x the points.

 

I know the comparison is a bit of an exaggeration, but I think it conveys the idea. Death Company with Thunder Hammers and a Chaplain would have been way less points and put out more damage. 

 

Similiar situation with Magnus. Because of the nature of his saving throw, you want to drown him in rolls. Ironically, if you had switched jobs (DC go after Magnus, Lascannons and whatnot shoot Mortarion(, you may have had better results.

 

This issue illustrates why assault squads are garbage in this edition, in microcosm. Jack-of-all-trades units struggle greatly in this edition (and 7th too), and a primarch has the ability to amplify that shortcoming to a high degree.

[Alcyon]

I agree with the above. I think this game actually demonstrates how awesome and appropriately powerful the primarchs are, while also showing how ridiculously inappropriate they are in 1500pt lists. They should likely cost a lot more points to restrict them to 2k+ games where the opponent can bring enough firepower to seriously threaten them (superheavies, lots of Earthshakers, lots of Plasma, whatever it takes.) Thematically it does make sense for all those BA heroes and DC still dying horribly to a Chaos-blessed living Primarch.

[Claws and Effect]

I don't mind the idea of a Primarch being played in higher points games. I would put 2000 as the minimum you could bring one at (or any Lord of War for that matter).

 

That said, I agree that going up against two of the hardest things in the game to kill as a brand new player would sour the experience for me a bit.

 

List tailoring can alleviate that a little bit. Pretty sure Magnus wouldn't want to see 3 Culexus Assassins across from him.

 

If you think Mortarion is bad in CC, just imagine how ridiculous Angron and Fulgrim are going to be.

[Shadow Captain Vyper]

Chaos-blessed living Primarch.

 

blessed 

 

blessed 

 

Edited October 10, 2017 by ltvyper

[9x19 Parabellum]

I don't mind the idea of a Primarch being played in higher points games. I would put 2000 as the minimum you could bring one at (or any Lord of War for that matter).

 

That said, I agree that going up against two of the hardest things in the game to kill as a brand new player would sour the experience for me a bit.

 

List tailoring can alleviate that a little bit. Pretty sure Magnus wouldn't want to see 3 Culexus Assassins across from him.

 

If you think Mortarion is bad in CC, just imagine how ridiculous Angron and Fulgrim are going to be.

 

I'm not one for list tailoring. 

 

I agree about the tools for the job, but part of my frustration is just information overlord.  In addition to not just one but TWO primarchs that I had to try and figure out how to unlock on my own, I also had to try and teach my friend how to pay using Blood Angels without just totally ordering him what to do and letting him roll dice.   In addition, as host, I had to be mindful of ordering pizza, listening for the delivery guy, and then other random things like managing the dogs (my friend brought his dog so we had 4 of them).  Just too much to deal with. Not fun.

[Claws and Effect]

I'm not a big fan of tailoring against what a specific opponent will have. But I'm a staunch proponent of taking into account what an opponent COULD have.

 

My wife will be playing Tyranids when she finds the time to finish painting. She'll have a Swarmlord, a flyrant, and a broodlord in the same list. My challenge is to come up with a list on my end that won't lead to a ROFLSTOMP in either direction.

 

I could easily tailor a list to win every game, but that's not fun.

[Jacques Corbin]

I agree, I prefer an all-comers list to a tailored one. For me it is about playstyle, start with the core of units that best fit that style, then build support around them. Play it, tweak it as necessary, and let your list evolve along the way.

[Alcyon]

Confirmed, am heretic