Tranc Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 Can a Space Marine Captain still take a Relic Blade in conjunction with a Storm Shield? The rule say that "This model may replace its Chainsword with a Storm Shield, Relic Blade, or an item from the Melee Weapons Llst," and replace its "Master-Crafted Boltgun with an item from... the Melee Weapons list." Note that neither the Storm Shield nor Relic Blade are on the Melee Weapons list, so at first glance it seems like you could have one or the other, but not both . However, the Chainsword is on the Melee Weapons list. So could you swap the boltgun for another chainsword, then replace one chainsword for a relic blade, and the other for a storm shield? Thanks, Tranc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smith Kappa Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 Hmm good question, if its not on the melee weapons list I guess you can not have both. Isn't a relic blade 2 handed anyhow? Perhaps use a power sword and storm shield? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tranc Posted June 25, 2017 Author Share Posted June 25, 2017 Interestingly enough, the relic blade/storm shield combo is available to vanguard veteran sergeants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acebaur Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 2 handed hasn't been a rule in multiple editions. I'm guessing that you'd swap the bolter for a chainsword and then swap both for ss and relic blade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristoff Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 2 handed hasn't been a rule in multiple editions. Funny, the 7th Ed Codex lists the Relic Blade as Melee, Two handed. Not that it matters for Storm Shields, they aren't Weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysere Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 2 handed hasn't been a rule in multiple editions. Funny, the 7th Ed Codex lists the Relic Blade as Melee, Two handed. Not that it matters for Storm Shields, they aren't Weapons. Which only meant no bonus attack for a pair of weapons. Actual requirements to use only what weapons fit in the models hands haven't been a thing for some time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acebaur Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 2 handed hasn't been a rule in multiple editions. Funny, the 7th Ed Codex lists the Relic Blade as Melee, Two handed. Not that it matters for Storm Shields, they aren't Weapons. The way he referenced it implied he was talking about the rule that said you could take a certain number of one or two handed weapons, something that hasn't been a thing since 4th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristoff Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 2 handed hasn't been a rule in multiple editions. Funny, the 7th Ed Codex lists the Relic Blade as Melee, Two handed. Not that it matters for Storm Shields, they aren't Weapons. The way he referenced it implied he was talking about the rule that said you could take a certain number of one or two handed weapons, something that hasn't been a thing since 4th. That's an assumption based on what he said. You said 2 handed hasn't been a rule for several editions, which is incorrect. If you were referring to an old rule regarding the number of Weapons a model carried, you should have been clearer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acebaur Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 fair enough, but the OP as been in answered, you can indeed take a relic blade and ss combo on a captain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWolfLord Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 fair enough, but the OP as been in answered, you can indeed take a relic blade and ss combo on a captain. Sorry but how has it been answered? I've read the thread and can't see where it's been shown where Relic Blade and Storm Shield are allowed as a combo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acebaur Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 Well the captain can change his boltgun for anything on the melee list which includes chainswords. He can replace his chainsword with a relic blade or a SS. So if he has 2 chainswords he can swap each for a relic blade and SS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWolfLord Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 Well the captain can change his boltgun for anything on the melee list which includes chainswords. He can replace his chainsword with a relic blade or a SS. So if he has 2 chainswords he can swap each for a relic blade and SS. Not sure that's how it works to be honest, it didn't work in 6th and 7th so I doubt it's allowed in 8th Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 I disagree Well the captain can change his boltgun for anything on the melee list which includes chainswords. He can replace his chainsword with a relic blade or a SS. So if he has 2 chainswords he can swap each for a relic blade and SS. I believe the line which says the model may replace its chainsword with a storm shield, relic blade or an item from the melee weapons list. is referring to the base wargear. The line before refers to replacing its master crafted boltgun, this one refers to replacing the chainsword, the subsequent line refers to replacing its backpack. It's very straightforward. Replacing a replaced item has never been on the cards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toasterfree Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 yeah you cant chain upgrades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysere Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 yeah you cant chain upgrades. You actually could in 7th and needed to do so for some units and such. The fact that you could in 7th of course means nothing and based on wording I'm planning on sticking with not being able to do that anymore. It just means if you want that 3++ then you don't get the relic blade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acebaur Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 Unfortunate, I guess I'll be snapping apart my warlord Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysere Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 Unfortunate, I guess I'll be snapping apart my warlord You could just use it as a rather large power sword. One of my captains was basically used the same way so he's just a power sword now. I've got a relic blade thunder hammer captain who's just sad that artificer armor isn't an option for him at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutlawSixActual Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 Don't do ANYTHING to your models until we have an actual codex. Remember, these indices are just "get you by" lists. My Company Champion has a power axe, and i'm not touching him until a codex comes out - THEN i'll decide whether I need to make him a different character, do a weapon swap, or keep him as is. But as for the previous question, yeah I don't think we can "chain" upgrades - that was a thing in 7th Edition that the FAQs stamped out (for example, giving a Company veteran a special weapon, THEN upgrading the veteran to Apothecary was ruled a no-go). You can replace the existing chainsword with a relic blade/storm shield/etc, and you can replace the existing bolter with an item from the prescribed lists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted July 8, 2017 Share Posted July 8, 2017 But as for the previous question, yeah I don't think we can "chain" upgrades - that was a thing in 7th Edition that the FAQs stamped out (for example, giving a Company veteran a special weapon, THEN upgrading the veteran to Apothecary was ruled a no-go). You can replace the existing chainsword with a relic blade/storm shield/etc, and you can replace the existing bolter with an item from the prescribed lists. Do the rules actually tell us to only replace standard wargear? Do they tell us that one replacement procedure can only be run once? I don't think so. So: "This model may replace its master-crafted boltgun with an item from the Pistols, Combi-weapons or Melee Weapons lists." The melee weapons list includes a chainsword. So you can have a captain with two chainswords. Then you can use the other procedure "This model may replace its chainsword with a storm shield, relic blade or an item from the Melee Weapons list." twice to gain a storm shield and relic blade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysere Posted July 8, 2017 Share Posted July 8, 2017 Don't do ANYTHING to your models until we have an actual codex. Remember, these indices are just "get you by" lists. My Company Champion has a power axe, and i'm not touching him until a codex comes out - THEN i'll decide whether I need to make him a different character, do a weapon swap, or keep him as is. But as for the previous question, yeah I don't think we can "chain" upgrades - that was a thing in 7th Edition that the FAQs stamped out (for example, giving a Company veteran a special weapon, THEN upgrading the veteran to Apothecary was ruled a no-go). You can replace the existing chainsword with a relic blade/storm shield/etc, and you can replace the existing bolter with an item from the prescribed lists. Actually in 7th so long as you didn't change the model to a different kind (like veteran to apothecary) you could and sometimes needed to swap to a free weapon in order to take your special weapon or such. No such precedent has currently been set so while you could argue raw it's hard to say what's intended. I will I believe the captain says he may replace his chainsword not he may replace a chainsword. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristoff Posted July 8, 2017 Share Posted July 8, 2017 Don't do ANYTHING to your models until we have an actual codex. Remember, these indices are just "get you by" lists. My Company Champion has a power axe, and i'm not touching him until a codex comes out - THEN i'll decide whether I need to make him a different character, do a weapon swap, or keep him as is. That may not be a bad idea. They may have forgotten that some of the model options they had before would allow for a certain setup. But as for the previous question, yeah I don't think we can "chain" upgrades - that was a thing in 7th Edition that the FAQs stamped out (for example, giving a Company veteran a special weapon, THEN upgrading the veteran to Apothecary was ruled a no-go). You mean like Space Marine Bikes being errata'd to swap a Weapon for free so they could legally swap that Weapon for one of their Special Weapons? There was nothing about "chaining upgrades" that was implied as illegal (except what people made up in their own head), because there has been no establishment of purchasing order then or now. The FAQ regarding Apothecaries could be considered in one of two lights: The Apothecary was upgraded before being able to purchase the appropriate Wargear (Top-Down System); OR The Apothecary could not have the Wargear because we are to use a "Final Check" system which does a final check to see if the model you end with qualifies as having those upgrades. You can replace the existing chainsword with a relic blade/storm shield/etc, and you can replace the existing bolter with an item from the prescribed lists. That goes without saying, but is there anything that says you cannot swap out something you swapped in if it fits the required name? Permission to swap out a chainsword the model possesses has been granted, so what takes that permission away if it is a chainsword that has been swapped in rather than as a default? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted July 8, 2017 Share Posted July 8, 2017 No such precedent has currently been set so while you could argue raw it's hard to say what's intended. I will I believe the captain says he may replace his chainsword not he may replace a chainsword. It sure does, but is the chainsword he acquired after removing his mastercrafted bolt gun any less his than the one he had from the start? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysere Posted July 8, 2017 Share Posted July 8, 2017 No such precedent has currently been set so while you could argue raw it's hard to say what's intended. I will I believe the captain says he may replace his chainsword not he may replace a chainsword. It sure does, but is the chainsword he acquired after removing his mastercrafted bolt gun any less his than the one he had from the start? The issue is more does it allow for him to do the swap a second time. Again raw I don't see much stopping someone from doing it but if it's not intended then someone could make the model and then have to break it when they faq it. In 7th the wargear swap was basically a constant check. If you had a weapon that could be swapped you could technically trade it out for something else for even more points, while relics were a clear one time thing. You give up exactly one weapon for it and then you're done. I'm curious to see which way GW will go with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristoff Posted July 8, 2017 Share Posted July 8, 2017 No such precedent has currently been set so while you could argue raw it's hard to say what's intended. I will I believe the captain says he may replace his chainsword not he may replace a chainsword.It sure does, but is the chainsword he acquired after removing his mastercrafted bolt gun any less his than the one he had from the start? The issue is more does it allow for him to do the swap a second time. Again raw I don't see much stopping someone from doing it but if it's not intended then someone could make the model and then have to break it when they faq it. In 7th the wargear swap was basically a constant check. If you had a weapon that could be swapped you could technically trade it out for something else for even more points, while relics were a clear one time thing. You give up exactly one weapon for it and then you're done. I'm curious to see which way GW will go with it. I think you mean IF they FAQ it that way. Permission to perform an action in this case does not necessarily negate the ability to perform it a second time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinsanity Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 Personally, I'd rather err on the side of caution. The use of the word its instead of a or any might very well mean the option is singular... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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