Heavy Support: What's good? whats bad?

[BrassClaw]

Hey Chaos Kiddies

 

So I have been looking through the Chaos Index and I have been having fun building lists. My goal now, is the have a full Brigade detachment of Chaos, with a heavy Khorne influence.

 

Now before 8th landed I was playing some KDK and Worldeaters. My original plans were to have a Cult of Destruction formation or Soul Grinders for my fire support. With 8th edition  Obilterators have poop the bed, so they will probably be bench warming until something changes. 

 

Soul Grinders seem ok, I'm not a 100% sold on them. That goes with the most of the heavy support choices, nothing stands out as a real winner. I do have a Predator(lascannons on the sides, and I have both turrets) and a Forgefiend(Hades Autocannons) and they have seem improvements but are they enough to warrant serious consideration?

 

As for Skull Cannons, I don't really have an opinion. I also plan on adding some traitor guard to the brigade but I don't have the Forge world book just yet.

 

Of course, this might change when the actual Chaos codexes come out, but until then What are the stand outs for Chaos in the Heavy Support battle role?

[Iron Father Ferrum]

For me, the standard outs are Havocs. They're cheap, the weapons are cheap, they can move and fire now and actually hit something.

[Archaeinox]

The predator is a wonderful choice now. It's usually the 1st thing I put in a list. 

 

A lot of folks are using a pair of maulerfiends or a maulerfiend with a forgefiend and doing alright, though personally I would forgo the maulerfiend and just take more dudes.

Edited June 25, 2017 by Archaeinox

[Prot]

I agree with Arch. The las pred or autocannon pred is just solid. Points allowing, the Landraider really is a beast.

 

Autocannon or missile Havocs are next on my list. The Daemon based heavies aren't my faves. They are too expensive for wond recovery, but suffer harsh BS skills combined with the moving penalty.

[Brother Aiwass]

From the main index, the laspred is king imho, with havocs being close. If you go with FW, there are other options too (leviathan, deredeo).

[DoomulusPrime]

Check out some of the options in the Forge World Chaos Index.

 

Rapier batteries are beast mode, especially the laser destroyers. The Hellforged Scorpius (whirlwind variant) can saturation bomb entire units hidden from LOS. Deredeo and Leviathan dreadnoughts are bonkers. Giant chaos spawn are cheap and seem like a lot of fun. Really, I think this is the edition of Forge World for the forces of Chaos.

Edited June 25, 2017 by greg0985

[micahwc]

Renegade earthshaker batteries.

[Marqol]

Yeah Leviathans are quite good. Used mine first time yesterday and he shined. Only lost a wound to a lucky guardsman in CC. Havocs are very good, the two games I've played a tank has been basically crippled first turn by lascannons from dev/havoc squads however think about taking 10 guys just for bullet sponges as once you do that everyone will look at them. Obliterators I've always enjoyed and while they have changed a lot they are still fun. You're always throwing at str6 shots but on rolls you can upgrade that, of course RNG isn't always great but they are still useful.  

[adreal]

Oblits can also deep strike and have a small foot print Edited June 25, 2017 by adreal

[the jeske]

Oblits are extremely bad though. If you want to take an oblit, may as well take a dread.

 

dual dakka fiends are ok. AC havocks are ok. Predators are good. And FW has a lot of unit X+ stuff.

In general the rule is to A avoid blast template stuff from prior editions B more dakka=better C smaller footprint is better [to hide and to circle up with chaff]

[Dolchiate Remembrancer]

Any news on how the defiler is faring?

[Sonoftherubric21]

I quite love the Dakkafiends in 8th under the Thousand Sons.  Prescience and Warp Time REALLY help it and make it a rather deadly unit. 

Also the Synergy with Changeling and Magnus/Daemon Princes helps tremendously if you are going for heavy firepower. (the same goes for any walker in the 1k sons lists but anything with an invul particularly is loved) 

That said; Maulerfiends are also fantastic, just take them alone and send that giant dino-bot missile off and it'll shred most targets. 

 

Land Raiders; SICK.  They are an incredibly high points cost but have great utility and firepower.  Being a stable bunker for a unit is also incredibly useful into the mid-game as well, I often stick Rubricae or Scarab Occult in one to solidify a fire-base near an objective, while the land raider blows holes in whatever the las-cannons can see. 

[Petitioner's City]

The Scorpius is mean - anywhere between 3 and 9 hits, or 6 and 18 hits if stationary the previous turn, at S6, -2 AP, 2 dam. The Proteus with a phylactary is a great denial unit, and the Achilles a mean mortal wound-causing bombard. The Comptemptor is just mean. The Sicarans are mean too, although the venator - how do people feel about it? 

 

The Giant Chaos Spawn is fun. The Plague Hulk just dripping. The Giant Spined Beastie a close combat weapon. But I don't know what players think of them. 

 

And of course, you can take Renegade Leman Russes, Basilisks, Medusae, Griffons, Wyverns, Colosses, various stationary Batteries and Malcadors. 

[BrassClaw]

Check out some of the options in the Forge World Chaos Index.

 

Rapier batteries are beast mode, especially the laser destroyers. The Hellforged Scorpius (whirlwind variant) can saturation bomb entire units hidden from LOS. Deredeo and Leviathan dreadnoughts are bonkers. Giant chaos spawn are cheap and seem like a lot of fun. Really, I think this is the edition of Forge World for the forces of Chaos.

Yeah, I have order both the Forge World Chaos and astra militarum books.

[Warsmith Uveron]

From my test games so far. 

 

Havoc's are Good. (very good in a bastion for extra LOS buff)

Land Raider is Good.

Daemon Engines are Good.  

 

Oblits have a place, they do bring a good amount of fire power and it can be placed where its needed. What they are not are the utility heavy support that they were in the last edition. But a unit of 3 inst a bad choice.. but they will no be MVP's ether.  

[the jeske]

Any news on how the defiler is faring?

Bad. If you want to melee there are other options, and you should never want to use a blast weapon in 8th.

[The Traitor]

I think that defliers, as land raiders, are viable options IF you have the points, they do hit like trucks. However I would go with havocs and predators unless doing daemon allies, in which case daemon engines are the way to go. The Changeling provides some durability, and I'm itching to try a list of nurgle daemon princes, nurgle forgefiends and epidemius!

[DoomulusPrime]

 

Any news on how the defiler is faring?

 

Bad. If you want to melee there are other options, and you should never want to use a blast weapon in 8th.

While I'm not so down on former blast weapons as Jeske, I still think Defilers are fundamentally outclassed by the Soul Grinder. Yes they may have more shooting options, but Soul Grinders are cheaper, and come with daemonic alignment bonuses. A Defiler may be able to survive a battle now, but a Nurgle Soul Grinder will take some dedicated firepower to remove. Edited June 26, 2017 by DoomulusPrime

[the jeske]

I think that defliers, as land raiders, are viable options IF you have the points, they do hit like trucks. However I would go with havocs and predators unless doing daemon allies, in which case daemon engines are the way to go. The Changeling provides some durability, and I'm itching to try a list of nurgle daemon princes, nurgle forgefiends and epidemius!

which part of the defiler hits like a truck ?

[Iron Father Ferrum]

 

I think that defliers, as land raiders, are viable options IF you have the points, they do hit like trucks. However I would go with havocs and predators unless doing daemon allies, in which case daemon engines are the way to go. The Changeling provides some durability, and I'm itching to try a list of nurgle daemon princes, nurgle forgefiends and epidemius!

which part of the defiler hits like a truck ?

 

 

The S16 AP-3 Dd3 claws?

[Dragonlover]

Autocannon Preds look pretty tasty, but I've not had a chance to use one yet.

 

Dragonlover

[bozo69pd]

 

I think that defliers, as land raiders, are viable options IF you have the points, they do hit like trucks. However I would go with havocs and predators unless doing daemon allies, in which case daemon engines are the way to go. The Changeling provides some durability, and I'm itching to try a list of nurgle daemon princes, nurgle forgefiends and epidemius!

which part of the defiler hits like a truck ?

 

I have been having a great time with battle cannons and flamers in general. Then again I always used to scatter big with cannons, and flamers my opponents would space so I could never get more than 2 or 3. Now I am wiping whole units of scat bikes off the table.

[Sception]

 

 

I think that defliers, as land raiders, are viable options IF you have the points, they do hit like trucks. However I would go with havocs and predators unless doing daemon allies, in which case daemon engines are the way to go. The Changeling provides some durability, and I'm itching to try a list of nurgle daemon princes, nurgle forgefiends and epidemius!

which part of the defiler hits like a truck ?

 

 

The S16 AP-3 Dd3 claws?

 

 

they're damage d6.  Not a lot of attacks with them, and the damage is very swingy, though, especially when you consider that their accuracy to begin with isn't great.  Probably not better than FW options like contemptors or decimators for a similar role of counter-attack with some shooty ability, but if your dice are hot on a given day, a defiler with the flail can very much make a mess of something, and they can take a lot of punishment.  And they definitely benefit a lot from whatever accuracy buffs you can toss their way.  And they're not all that pricey if you don't take the twin lascannon upgrade.

[dark_elf]

As you are a Khorne player, I would look at adding a Slaughterer. My two friends swear by them now.

 

Other stuff are as others have said. Havoks, Preds and Fiends from the GW Index. Leviathan from the FW Index.

[Sception]

I like the look of renegade & heretic heavy quad launcher batteries for anti infantry work. Similar output to heavy bolter rapiers at a similar price, albeit at lower ap, but with longer range and indirect fire.