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Hey everyone!

 

So I was thinking about making my units a successor chapter to the Blood Angels possibly but I was concerned. I plan on playing competitively and wanted to make sure I would be able to use the Blood Angels rules with my successor chapter.

 

Anyone know how this works? Can I still use rules that affect "Blood Angels" if I am running a successor chapter?

 

How will the competitive scene see it? Will they allow the use of special characters and units in a successor chapter in a "counts-as" type approach?

Yes, you may do all of this. A "Blood Angels" army is based on the rules being used, not the appearance. :wink:

Unfortunately that is not quite true. By RAW you cannot use Astorath, Dante and other named characters, if you claim that your army is a successor chapter. The rules are unclear what happens if you claim that your army is Blood Angels but you use a non-standard paint scheme like painting them silver and red and giving them a Knights of Blood symbol on the shoulder pad. What you definitely cannot do is mix and match named characters from different chapters like Mephiston and Seth. That is if you want your units' abilities to affect the other units in the army.

 

We cannot guess how your competitive scene will react, but a reasonable approach would be to say as long as you follow all the rules for a certain chapter paint job should not matter.

 

We cannot guess how your competitive scene will react, but a reasonable approach would be to say as long as you follow all the rules for a certain chapter paint job should not matter.

 

 

Which is the way it has always been, from 3rd ed, where Angels Sanguine used the BA rules, to now, where they can still use them.

 

To make it work, your paint scheme can be red and black for the Sanguine Angels, but your chosen <CHAPTER> keyword has to be Blood Angels to use the characters.

 

To make it work, your paint scheme can be red and black for the Sanguine Angels, but your chosen <CHAPTER> keyword has to be Blood Angels to use the characters.

Exactly, however the rules are fuzzy on whether this combination of paintjob and rules is allowed and imply it isn't

 

 

To make it work, your paint scheme can be red and black for the Sanguine Angels, but your chosen <CHAPTER> keyword has to be Blood Angels to use the characters.

Exactly, however the rules are fuzzy on whether this combination of paintjob and rules is allowed and imply it isn't

 

Not fuzzy at all and would not hesitate to say otherwise.  

 

The only thing preventing a BA army from being a BA army is the <CHAPTER> key words chosen, as Bro. Tyler implied.  

You could pain them however you'd like, what makes them BA is their key word.  

 

Here's what the Index says:

 

"If you wish to theme your army as

a Blood Angels successor Chapter,
use the rules presented in this
section but substitute the Blood
Angels keyword in all instances on
the datasheets and rules presented
in this section with the name
of your Blood Angels successor
Chapter. Note, however, that named
characters that can only be included
in your army once cannot be from
any other Chapter – Commander
Dante is the Chapter Master of the
Blood Angels Chapter, and not any

successor Chapter."

 

Nothing about paintjob, just about keywords.  

The rules make no allowance to disconnect paintjob and bits from the keywords. While it is a reasonable assumption to do so, it is not in the rules. They explicitly say that Dante is the Chapter Master of the Blood Angels and not any other chapter, they do not restrict that statement to keyword purposes.

The rules make no allowance to disconnect paintjob and bits from the keywords. While it is a reasonable assumption to do so, it is not in the rules. They explicitly say that Dante is the Chapter Master of the Blood Angels and not any other chapter, they do not restrict that statement to keyword purposes.

 

They also don't say what colour blood angels are painted. In this instance, BLOOD ANGELS are painted half black and half red. 

Interesting discussion. I'm wondering if this will cause problems when I start to hit the big tournament scene in the US. Hmmm. 

 

I plan on going to a few events sponsored by GW but also ITC and SN Battle Report's No Retreat out in Gibraltar eventually.

 

So I just want to make sure I'm not going to invest time and money into a project that will cause me problems later down the road.

 

I would like to think that most people would allow the "counts-as" rule and possibly me renaming the models to my own desired name as long as I am clear with my opponent which model is which and how everything flows together. But I wonder about that 'one guy' that we should all have experienced by now ruining my good time but throwing a tantrum about it. 

 

I love the Sanguine theme and plan on painting all my marines in this manner but I was just curious what others thought about the 'counts-as' option. There seems to be differing opinions about it as well.

As per the above, the rules are very clear as to what units can take what CHAPTER keyword, as in, Dante must have the BLOOD ANGELS keyword.

 

There are no rules about how models with the BLOOD ANGELS keyword should be painted, and if, for some reason, GW ever decided to commit corporate suicide and make them, then there wouldn't be a way to force this. 

 

My BLOOD ANGELS have white chest eagles instead of the black ones. They're still BLOOD ANGELS.

 

Your Blood Angels might be painted like angels sanguine, but as long as the army is built legally and all have the BLOOD ANGELS keyword, it's fine.

Are we seriously having a conversation about it painting your army a certain way affects the rules? You can dip your models in a gallon of white paint from any hardware store and as long as you point at them and say "they're blood Angels," then by the emperor, they're blood angels. That blurb in the index about successor chapters is only there to point out that you can't mix Gabriel Seth and Dante/other named character in the same detachment.

 

That's it.

The rules make no allowance to disconnect paintjob and bits from the keywords. While it is a reasonable assumption to do so, it is not in the rules. They explicitly say that Dante is the Chapter Master of the Blood Angels and not any other chapter, they do not restrict that statement to keyword purposes.

 

Are you for real aha...

 

Do the way models are painted really have an effect on the rules now?

 

(well, except for Orks and red paint jobs on trukks...)

No, it's a bad argument. As soon as someone has some slight color scheme difference or conversion it doesn't work. My guys have my 3 helmets and white wings-not black-on their chapter insignia. They're still blood angels because before the game I say "these are my blood angels." There's literally no argument as far as paint is concerned.

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