Death Guard Disappointment

[dark_elf]

 

Dark_Elf, I would consider joining Slaanesh.  Noise Marines are excellent all-rounder infantry.  Lots of fire power, speed and fierce in assault.  They can camp objectives, take up firing positions and go toe-to-toe with pretty much anything and push a unit off an objective when they need to.  Plus your characters can summon in daemonettes, which are one of the better daemon choices.  Add in some bikes and raptors and you've got a very fun and effective army.

I've also been thinking of Tzeentch.  Their daemons aren't as good, but Rubrics and Scarab Occult Terminators are very resilient and their special rules and equipment make them act more like Plague Marines and Plague Terminators should. 

Khorne is pretty awesome too, of course.   Basically, I love what the designers did with the Chaos list with the exception of what they did to the Death Guard. 

 

It's hard for me to believe that the design team that created the Traitor Legions Codex are the same people who wrote the Chaos Index.  To demonstrate such a complete understanding of what the Death Guard army should really be, and then 6 months later release another book that tears their previous work to shreds by doing the exact opposite and to do so in such a way that's not reparable... It's so damned confusing.

 

Slaanesh welcomes all in her / his embrace!

 

However, I don't think Noise Marines are that good in CC but Demonettes are great summoned in to help plug holes. I cannot support your decision to go with Tzeentch, and certainly not Khorne...

 

I can't comment on if the Design Team is the same, but as an unbiased Nurgle by stander I will say it looks to me like the Nurgle units are omitted because they are coming very soon. Yes it would've been better not to place restrictions for the current Nurgle but I honestly think DG Terminators will be a staple in the coming dex.

[Commissar K.]

I understand the dissapointment completely. Current start out for 8th has very little to nothing to do with narrative logic. As to why Death Guard are so limited in their Keywords to the point of it being vague (e.g. why no Vindicator either?) shows that to some extend Games Workshop has still relatively rushed the way certain Keywords work out.

Now the advantage we have now is that no worry is required at all in terms of narrative. You want some Berzerker Troops? All you have to do is change their <Legion> to Keyword World Eaters. 

In addition there is also actually nothing prefenting you from going half and half. With this I mean that you cherry pick the best Death Guard models and mix them with the best other models you like. As we speak I'm seriously considering picking Thyphus and Poxwalkers for Troop choices and Objective holders while my other models very likely will be more World Eaters, perhaps even Skulltakers (who are not World Eaters) if the group is okay with me using Zhufor. 

Current edition has no narrative and it's reflected in the rules who do not follow any narrative logic when it comes to army design. It does however mean we have all the options.

[dark_elf]

I don't think it is a narrative issue but more the issue of lack of synergy with true Death Guard units as specified by the current dex. But I believe this is temporary.

[Panzer]

Talk about a doom&gloom thread. And here I thought Death Guard are like other Nurgle guys happy fellas. :D

[Plaguecaster]

Talk about a doom&gloom thread. And here I thought Death Guard are like other Nurgle guys happy fellas. :D

Despair is the first step one takes before realising the futility of it before Embracing Nurgle's gifts to experience true joy and happiness by embracing his gifts :D

[Panzer]

 

Talk about a doom&gloom thread. And here I thought Death Guard are like other Nurgle guys happy fellas.

Despair is the first step one takes before realising the futility of it before Embracing Nurgle's gifts to experience true joy and happiness by embracing his gifts

 

Indeed. Even tho I prefer the short-lived but intense joy that comes with being a Slaaneshi. :D

[Commissar K.]

I don't think it is a narrative issue but more the issue of lack of synergy with true Death Guard units as specified by the current dex. But I believe this is temporary.

Well the Synergy is available. You can change Keyword <Legion> to e.g. Maggot Lords and obtain the same synergy most Chaos armies have. Likewise there is also nothing stopping you then still to have <Mark of Chaos> changed to Nurgle.

 

As a result I don't think there is any lack of synergy. Just a lot of narrative oddities. Same with a lot of Chaos pieces really. As certain logical restrictions do not apply while certain illogical restrictions do. 

[DaisyDuke]

There is a pic in the rule book showing the as yet unreleased death guard terminaters. Look to the bottom left of the picture showing the death guard army.

[Plaguecaster]

PG14 you mean????? Nope that's a conversion which was from one of the White dwarfs ages ago, it's got a helm from the BlightKings set and trust me I've used those bits heaps of times I know that helm off by heart

[Commissar K.]

There is a pic in the rule book showing the as yet unreleased death guard terminaters. Look to the bottom left of the picture showing the death guard army.

Its very likely that the unit is not Chaos Terminators and a new future release with its own non-modular Datasheet.

 

Another example that follows that same design is Lord Zhufor who also is not a World Eater based on Keywords.

[dark_elf]

 

I don't think it is a narrative issue but more the issue of lack of synergy with true Death Guard units as specified by the current dex. But I believe this is temporary.

Well the Synergy is available. You can change Keyword <Legion> to e.g. Maggot Lords and obtain the same synergy most Chaos armies have. Likewise there is also nothing stopping you then still to have <Mark of Chaos> changed to Nurgle.

 

As a result I don't think there is any lack of synergy. Just a lot of narrative oddities. Same with a lot of Chaos pieces really. As certain logical restrictions do not apply while certain illogical restrictions do. 

 

 

I disagree.

 

A Death Guard Chaos Lord cannot buff your Maggot Lords' Terminators. Likewise, your Maggot Lords Lord cannot buff Plague Marines. This lack of synergy is what I was referring to.

[Plaguecaster]

That's because Zhurfor is not a World Eater . The FW Vraks book had him as a loyalist space marine (Storm Lords chapter) who was captured and tortured by the Skull Takers ( which themselves were once a loyalist chapter known as the Beserkers of Kharadon ) eventually turning to worship of Khorne. Apart from being Khorne worshippers bothe the Skulltakers and Zhurfor have nothing to do with the World Eaters at all which is why he doesn't have it

 

Dark_elf I agree especially when you take into account the mutiple Death Guard characters and psychic powers which only work on deathguard models

[Lord Malnatt Evilborn]

Have faith

 

DG Terminators arrive with Mortarion, take and read the latest White Dwarf where talks about the Lord of Contagion, well, there explains is a former Deathshroud Terminator, the bodyguard of Mortarion

 

If 1+1=2............................

 

GW loves Nurgle, with Khorne, he always been treated better than the other gods, there are no reason to think no termy for DG 

[DuskRaider]

The Terminator was shown in the official GW trailer back in what? March? Along with Plague Marines from an upcoming multi-part kit. There will be Terminators. There will be multi-part Plague Marines. There will be Mortarion and Typhus and maybe even a tank, also shown in the background of that trailer that came out months ago and everyone has already seen all of this. The index is not permanent, it's to hold us over until proper codices come out, and considering Death Guard are featured in the start box they'll most likely be the second official codex to release (obviously after Primaris), thus alleviating all the issues that we are currently facing.

[Commissar K.]

 

 

I don't think it is a narrative issue but more the issue of lack of synergy with true Death Guard units as specified by the current dex. But I believe this is temporary.

Well the Synergy is available. You can change Keyword <Legion> to e.g. Maggot Lords and obtain the same synergy most Chaos armies have. Likewise there is also nothing stopping you then still to have <Mark of Chaos> changed to Nurgle.

 

As a result I don't think there is any lack of synergy. Just a lot of narrative oddities. Same with a lot of Chaos pieces really. As certain logical restrictions do not apply while certain illogical restrictions do. 

 

 

I disagree.

 

A Death Guard Chaos Lord cannot buff your Maggot Lords' Terminators. Likewise, your Maggot Lords Lord cannot buff Plague Marines. This lack of synergy is what I was referring to.

 

This is true but this isn't an example lack of synergy, it's an example of restricted synergy.

 

The difference ingame is often a non-issue. As models that will be within 6" of your Maggot Lord Keyworded model will not be within 6" of your Death Guard Keyworded model.

 

I agree with you that it would be more fun and make more sence if all models with Keyword Nurgle could obtain Keyword Death Guard but for whatever reason GW decided against that.

 

That's because Zhurfor is not a World Eater . 

Strange name to sell your model under then:

 

 

World Eaters Terminator Lord Zhufor https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-NO/Khorne-World-Eaters-Terminator-Lord-Zhufor

 

Skulltakers:

 

 

 

 

Originally known as the Berserkers of Kharadon, a loyalist Space Marine chapter, they now bear the livery of the World Eaters traitor legion.

 

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/4b/4b29a5ad6929e348b71a6ff56702d4901042e1d8be40c4d87ab40f54a607e1d2.jpg

[Plaguecaster]

They clearly forgot their own damn fluff as all the Vraks books which is where he makes his first appearance has him as a Skulltaker not a World Eater it's just shoddy writing like most of their stuff as they also have Necrosisis as part of the tainted when he is actually from the apostles of Contagion

 

Yeah that's literally what the were called before they turned someone at FW must of thought it was hilarious :D

[Commissar K.]

They clearly forgot their own damn fluff as all the Vraks books which is where he makes his first appearance has him as a Skulltaker not a World Eater it's just shoddy writing like most of their stuff as they also have Necrosisis as part of the tainted when he is actually from the apostles of Contagion

Or just maby he's from the Brass Mouth Eats Strange Apples Legion?  

 

[Panzer]

I wouldn't interpret too much into the FW Index. They are LOTS of mistakes. Compared to those, the GW Index looks like a masterpiece.

[Plaguecaster]

Hey I don't write Imperial Armour books that's why I said fluff wise he isn't a World Eater which explains it and that's what's clearly written in the Vraks books if you don't believe me then buy them yourself. Model wise it's FW fault

This is really getting off topic

[Gaz Taylor]

I'm not disapointed at all! We've got some lovely models in the core set and GW have announced more are on the way - https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/06/25/new-primaris-space-marines-and-death-guard-announced/

 

 

Plus we know Mortarion is on his way and he will most likely have his bodyguard of Deathshroud Terminators with him. Plus looks like the new Plague Marine set will have loads of cool stuff in it, such as a Blight Launcher!

 

So in short - I'm excited

[dark_elf]

 

 

 

 

I disagree.

 

A Death Guard Chaos Lord cannot buff your Maggot Lords' Terminators. Likewise, your Maggot Lords Lord cannot buff Plague Marines. This lack of synergy is what I was referring to.

 

This is true but this isn't an example lack of synergy, it's an example of restricted synergy.

The difference ingame is often a non-issue. As models that will be within 6" of your Maggot Lord Keyworded model will not be within 6" of your Death Guard Keyworded model.

I agree with you that it would be more fun and make more sence if all models with Keyword Nurgle could obtain Keyword Death Guard but for whatever reason GW decided against that.

 

 

There is no synergy between Maggot Lords Lord and Plague Marines. Hence my 'lack of synergy' statement. You can call it restricted all you want, but my statement does not change.

[Commissar K.]

I'm not disapointed at all! We've got some lovely models in the core set and GW have announced more are on the way - https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/06/25/new-primaris-space-marines-and-death-guard-announced/

 

 

 

Plus we know Mortarion is on his way and he will most likely have his bodyguard of Deathshroud Terminators with him. Plus looks like the new Plague Marine set will have loads of cool stuff in it, such as a Blight Launcher!

 

So in short - I'm excited

Absolutely, I think it's really cool to have these new datasheets appear aswell.

The most likely representation of the upcomming Death Guard Terminators will also likely be different from that of the regular Chaos Terminators and I am also looking very forward for more differences and flavour to those specific legions to differentiate them.

 

For example I too would love specific World Eater Terminators akin to that of the Red Butchers. Likely with Blood for the Bloodgod but without any option to thake a Combi-Weapon or things like the Reaper Autocannon.

 

From that sliver of a spoiler we have seen of Mortarion I think his model will be awesome and his unique presence will also be really cool to make Death Guard a little bit less stagnant in melee. As without doubt I will believe he'd be a reaper like model :D 

 

I mean... This:

 

Is going to be epic!

[Sternenfaust]

Back then when the 3ed dropped, we at first only had a shortened "codex-section" in the rulebook for each army. All of these were then updated with their own books. And Chaos later even got the 3.5 'Dex. Am I totally wrong in thinking, that the Index-books are nothing more than a "here is something for you to keep playing" and that they are totally not the final form?

[Panzer]

Back then when the 3ed dropped, we at first only had a shortened "codex-section" in the rulebook for each army. All of these were then updated with their own books. And Chaos later even got the 3.5 'Dex. Am I totally wrong in thinking, that the Index-books are nothing more than a "here is something for you to keep playing" and that they are totally not the final form?

You aren't. That's exactly what the Index is.

[Sternenfaust]

 

You aren't. That's exactly what the Index is.

 

So, I don't really get the anger. And concerning Havocs back in 3.5: They weren't even allowed to carry any heavy guns. "All" they could be equipped with were special weapons. They were basically 1 PM  Champion with 4PM equipped with special weapons, if I recall right.