Company Veterans are the new black?

[Spagunk]

Storm shields are so cheap and matter so much in this edition that I'd always advocate taking them.

 

Maybe use boarding shields so the special weapons look better?

Storm shields were never going away; they are still going to be used. It's the melta/combi-melta issue since 2 points is nothing and your -1 for using both can be mitigated with a captain or some other booster unit.

 

Combi-plasma is a bit of an issue since if you move and fire both weapons you now have a -2 which means dead company vets. But since it is only 2 points more anyway, why not just use it and never use both? Seems a waste of 10 points to me.

[Xenith]

 

Combi-plasma is a bit of an issue since if you move and fire both weapons you now have a -2 which means dead company vets. But since it is only 2 points more anyway, why not just use it and never use both? Seems a waste of 10 points to me.

 

The -1 to hit for moving only applies to heavy weapons. Moving and firing both parts of a combi plasma is a flat -1 from the combi rule.

[dread05]

Thats what I thought about the vanguard hands, the special weapons will look weird. How about that plasma setup? Is it stupid to run plasma guns on the vets and combi meltas on the srgt and captain? Should I try to match special weapons and combis?

[Xenith]

Thats what I thought about the vanguard hands, the special weapons will look weird. How about that plasma setup? Is it stupid to run plasma guns on the vets and combi meltas on the srgt and captain? Should I try to match special weapons and combis?

 

There are enough hands in there that will be fine with the ranged weapons. If you have a couple spare from a tactical squad you'll be fine.

 

General practice used to be that you should match weapons, but now since anyone can shoot anything, it isn't so critical. 

[Karhedron]

Concerning Sanguinary Guard, why would they ever take Angelus Bolters? They seem too expensive for what they do.

I have no idea, there are one or two other weapons like the Eldar's Avenger catapult that seem massively overpriced for what they do. The price is such that I wonder if it is actually a typo. How you could consider an ABG to be worth several times more than a storm bolter is a mystery.

[Indefragable]

 

Concerning Sanguinary Guard, why would they ever take Angelus Bolters? They seem too expensive for what they do.

I have no idea, there are one or two other weapons like the Eldar's Avenger catapult that seem massively overpriced for what they do. The price is such that I wonder if it is actually a typo. How you could consider an ABG to be worth several times more than a storm bolter is a mystery.

 

 

Sometimes I feel like two different people determine the points values vs the rules. The Angelus Boltgun and Glaive Encarmine are marked as "special" so the dude who determines points is like "this is a special weapon. It has to cost more" without first consulting the rules to see how the crunch compares to like weapons, then price accordingly.

 

Personal gripe:

Hidden Content

I'm glad the Glaives Encarmine are more than just power weapons this edition, but one of my personal gripes is how "weak" they still are. Based on fluff and how the weapons themselves look, they really should be comparable to Relic Blades:

 

Encarmine Sword: S+2 AP-3 D:D3.

Encarmine Axe: S+2 AP-2 D:1 + D3

Encarmine Broadsword: S+4 AP-4 D:1 + D3 take the highest

 

 

....I mean "angel steel" forged by the Primarch don't count as Relics?

 

[Remtek]

Looked through the index a couple of times, i can't find the point value for jump packs. It says BA company vets can take them at +1 power rating, but they are not listed in the point value wargear section. It's extremly implied they should cost 2 points, but can we take them when they are not listed with a cost?

[Quixus]

Its three points. Look at the unit table, there are company veterans with jump packs. Jump packs are not sold separately.

[Xenith]

Looked through the index a couple of times, i can't find the point value for jump packs. It says BA company vets can take them at +1 power rating, but they are not listed in the point value wargear section. It's extremly implied they should cost 2 points, but can we take them when they are not listed with a cost?

 

As per Quixus, packs arent available separately. The point cost for "Unit X with Jump Pack" is in the BA unit point costs table.

[Mesi40k]

Looking at the index, Company Vets with packs cost 1 point more than VV with packs. Not sure why OP keeps saying Company Vets are cheaper. 

[Indefragable]

Looking at the index, Company Vets with packs cost 1 point more than VV with packs. Not sure why OP keeps saying Company Vets are cheaper. 

 

You are correct. I must have typo'd the wrong points values for each one....got the wires crossed. My overall analysis applies, however: unless you want squad size, Company Vets are pretty much the same, if not better, than VV. Each person has to decide whether the 1pt difference matters enough to justify what each can/can't do.

[Quixus]

I think being allowed to spam combi and special weapons alone justifies the points. If the Sgt could take a storm shield, there wouldn't be a reason to take Vanguard at all.

 

I always wondered why it is so uncommon for marines to do shooty jump units.

[sebs_evo7]

So for under 350 points we can have a captain with combi plas and thunder hammer and 5 vets decked out with storm shields and either combi plas or plasma guns

All with jump packs obviously

 

I'm thinking of building this, just wondering if anyone can see a better set up?

[Crimson Ghost IX]

I like the melta gun over the plasma gun myself. Mostly because we can hang plasma pistols all over the place now. Plasma Guns are certainly good tho.

 

I have been goofing with list building and best ways to use veterans exploiting that multiple units can ride in a transport this edition.

I dislike getting frozen out on my drop zones by enemy screening forces if my drop assault is too big...

I am unwilling to play a character buffed parking lot fire base with Blood Angels...

I also dislike move and fire penalties on Razorbacks trying to advance...

 

So I am thinking of Rhino/Raider rush tactics to supplement my forces.

 

Tonight I am theory crafting with taking Rhino's loaded with:

3 or 4 company veterans with melta guns.

2 or 1 characters (Sang Priest, Chaplain, etc) - Sang Priest +1 str and Chappy re-rolls and leadership is good I think. Capt would also be good.

and 5 Death Company or Vanguard Vets armed cheaply for hand to hand. I am leaning DC with both power swords and chainswords to keep points down, but many options work.

 

Makes some potentially hard hitting Rhino rushers and the removed jump packs about pay for the Rhino.

Maybe a couple of these Rhino combat teams and a loaded Land Raider/Stormraven as an army core?

 

I like Rhino based combat teams with the Company Veterans bringing the support fire along.

I like the multiple threat presented by Rhino Rush generally and I think it could be decent again in this new world of 8th edition.

 

Anyhow something else to think about with Company Veterans is their potential for small unit size ride alongs... bringing the special toys.

I haven't tested it yet, but I thought it was interesting enough to post for thoughts and comments here.

Edited June 30, 2017 by Crimson Ghost IX

[Mesi40k]

Personally I've been running my company vets with 5 stormbolters and power swords. I really think people underestimate stormbolters right now. 125 points for the set up and it dishes out quite a bit of damage in a cheap and versatile unit. 4 shots a marine, plus the assault, and you have the ability to leave and shoot some more if you wish. Have Dante or a Priest around and those numbers just get better. It's had a lot of success for me, especially with all the horde style armies seeing play now.

Edited June 30, 2017 by Mesi40k

[Charlo]

So you're playing Grey Knight's? :P

[Remtek]

Thoughts on running 2man units of company vets? Since you can fire all weapons you could give them 2 plasmaguns, a plasma pistol and a power axe. Thats around 14 meltabombs for 5 shots with the option of supercharing. A nice tool to have in reserve and for picking up maelstorm objectives. 

[Quixus]

You only get 4 plasma shots. You cannot fire pistols at the same time as other weapons.

[Remtek]

You only get 4 plasma shots. You cannot fire pistols at the same time as other weapons.

 

A missed the exception with pistols, thanks!