Uprising Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 I am not quite sure where to post this, but i am wondering can Legion of the Damned be primaris marines? What do you think, thanks for reading. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/335681-primaris-legion-of-the-damned/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grotsmasha Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 If you're asking a modelling question, I'd say yes, go for it. If you're asking a fluff question, then....maybe? I think it would be fine. Others won't. Cheers, Jono Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/335681-primaris-legion-of-the-damned/#findComment-4798534 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soldier of Dorn Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 To be perfectly honest, we don't know enough for certain about what exactly Legion of the Damned are to authoritatively say whether or not Primaris could exist among their number. So.. possibly. I wouldn't refuse to see it on the tabletop. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/335681-primaris-legion-of-the-damned/#findComment-4798545 Share on other sites More sharing options...
utilityzero Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 I mean, it's not explicitly stated what they are but I'd not want to see it. I wouldn't refuse to play you. I just wouldn't like it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/335681-primaris-legion-of-the-damned/#findComment-4798547 Share on other sites More sharing options...
NovemberIX Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 I guess it depends, are Legion of the Damned basically Imperial Daemons or are they the remnants of the Firehawks chapter? Answer that, and while this is tautological, you'll have your answer. I think modeling wise it'd be interesting project though. Honda 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/335681-primaris-legion-of-the-damned/#findComment-4798588 Share on other sites More sharing options...
D3L Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 (edited) I guess it depends, are Legion of the Damned basically Imperial Daemons or are they the remnants of the Firehawks chapter? Answer that, and while this is tautological, you'll have your answer. I think modeling wise it'd be interesting project though. where has it been explicitly suggested that they're anything more than the Firehawks? Edited June 27, 2017 by D3L Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/335681-primaris-legion-of-the-damned/#findComment-4798594 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlson793 Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 I guess it depends, are Legion of the Damned basically Imperial Daemons or are they the remnants of the Firehawks chapter? Answer that, and while this is tautological, you'll have your answer. I think modeling wise it'd be interesting project though. where has it been explicitly suggested that they're anything more than the Firehawks? 6E Codex. The back story there gave multiple speculated origins, none of which could be definitively proven. Considering their first appearance (006.M40) was before the disappearance of the Firehawks (963.M41), there's a reasonable doubt for them to be from that Chapter (mind you, vagaries of the warp doesn't discount time travel either way...) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/335681-primaris-legion-of-the-damned/#findComment-4798603 Share on other sites More sharing options...
NovemberIX Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 Not that I have any citations off the top of my head (and it's near midnight local so I'm not about to go looking for them) but the recent mini-dex, previous publications and other various fiction releases. There isn't any hard and fast evidence to their specific inception, it's all pretty much speculation. (though that being said, as a person with a place in my heart for the Firehawks I like the idea of them becoming the LotD, but recent fan theories regarding the possible return of Ferrus Manus as a LotD character have begun to sway me back to the Imperial Daemon camp) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/335681-primaris-legion-of-the-damned/#findComment-4798605 Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Strike Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 They have a 3+ Invuln still? The power armor they wear is as strong as a storm shield? Or are they the Militant Chamber of the Ordo Chronos, with time bubble shielding on their armor, and they can travel through time. They are made up of the remaining fire hawks who were recruited by the Ordo Chronos, and their first mission sent them back in time to the first appearance of the LotD? My headcanon. Dragonlover, Noserenda and Sir_Gaea 3 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/335681-primaris-legion-of-the-damned/#findComment-4798681 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Custodian Athiair Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 They have a 3+ Invuln still? The power armor they wear is as strong as a storm shield? Or are they the Militant Chamber of the Ordo Chronos, with time bubble shielding on their armor, and they can travel through time. They are made up of the remaining fire hawks who were recruited by the Ordo Chronos, and their first mission sent them back in time to the first appearance of the LotD? My headcanon. Love it Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/335681-primaris-legion-of-the-damned/#findComment-4798727 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyberos the Red Wake Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 Lore-wise, I don't think it's possible just because of the Legion's unique circumstances. They are a chapter from the past who had something very terrible happen to them, and now they're basically time-travelling, teleporting, almost Warp ghosts that show up to save the day and then disappear. They don't really have a way to receive Primaris reinforcements since they never show up for no reason sort of like the Sanguinor, and even if they did team up with some new Primaris guys, the Primaris wouldn't have the teleporting and other special abilities they have. For modelling, or your own creation? Sure, go nuts. But officially? I'm pretty sure they cannot be, which is a bummer for people who are fans of both the LotD and the Primaris. I'm sure you can paint some Primaris as LotD and say they are a new Primaris chapter dedicated to their honor or something like that, or a chapter that just happens to be painted black with bones and flames. Kua 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/335681-primaris-legion-of-the-damned/#findComment-4798740 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grotsmasha Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 Lore-wise, I don't think it's possible just because of the Legion's unique circumstances. They are a chapter from the past who had something very terrible happen to them, and now they're basically time-travelling, teleporting, almost Warp ghosts that show up to save the day and then disappear. They don't really have a way to receive Primaris reinforcements since they never show up for no reason sort of like the Sanguinor, and even if they did team up with some new Primaris guys, the Primaris wouldn't have the teleporting and other special abilities they have. For modelling, or your own creation? Sure, go nuts. But officially? I'm pretty sure they cannot be, which is a bummer for people who are fans of both the LotD and the Primaris. I'm sure you can paint some Primaris as LotD and say they are a new Primaris chapter dedicated to their honor or something like that, or a chapter that just happens to be painted black with bones and flames. That's the thing though we don't KNOW what/who they are. Following the Emperor's Daemons theory, a dead heroic Primaris has the potential to appear as a Legionnaire. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/335681-primaris-legion-of-the-damned/#findComment-4798762 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyberos the Red Wake Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 (edited) Is there not fluff about them being a cohesive chapter? Or was that retconned? I don't recall them ever having random marines from other chapters join up with them. IIRC they were slowly dying off too. Their highest rank is a Sergeant. Edited June 27, 2017 by Tyberos the Red Wake Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/335681-primaris-legion-of-the-damned/#findComment-4798776 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antarius Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 (edited) Well, the whole point of them is that we just don't know what/who they are. AFAICT, their first appearance was in the 2nd ed. Ultramarines codex, where it says "The Legion of the Damned is a mysterious and unexplained occurrence. In times of great adversity the Legion will come to the aid of Space Marines in battle, turning defeat into victory (...) Afterward the Legion vanishes leaving no trace of their presence or clues as to their origin" (p74) Then there are their rules (immune to all psychology/break tests, fear, cannot be joined/benefit from any army bonuses as they are not part of your army) and a one-page short story, which takes the form of Tigurius recounting the appearance of "ghostly warriors" shrouded in "an eerie glow" and that "fire seemed to dance around their feet". They save the day and vanish without any sort of trace. So, yeah. It's not definitive that they're ghosts, but they're pretty clearly modelled after Machen's ghostly archers in "The Bowmen"/the Angels of Mons. (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angels_of_Mons) If you go with that view, then there's really no reason why they couldn't manifest as Primaris Marines (unless you believe then to be the ghosts of some specific Marines ofc). So, the way I see it, you should totally go for it if you like the idea. Edited June 27, 2017 by Antarius Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/335681-primaris-legion-of-the-damned/#findComment-4798808 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grotsmasha Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 Well, the whole point of them is that we just don't know what/who they are. AFAICT, their first appearance was in the 2nd ed. Ultramarines codex, where it says "The Legion of the Damned is a mysterious and unexplained occurrence. In times of great adversity the Legion will come to the aid of Space Marines in battle, turning defeat into victory (...) Afterward the Legion vanishes leaving no trace of their presence or clues as to their origin" (p74) Then there are their rules (immune to all psychology/break tests, fear, cannot be joined/benefit from any army bonuses as they are not part of your army) and a one-page short story, which takes the form of Tigurius recounting the appearance of "ghostly warriors" shrouded in "an eerie glow" and that "fire seemed to dance around their feet". They save the day and vanish without any sort of trace. So, yeah. It's not definitive that they're ghosts, but they're pretty clearly modelled after Machen's "ghost archers"/the Angels of Mons. (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angels_of_Mons) If you go with that view, then there's really no reason why they couldn't manifest as Primaris Marines (unless you believe then to be the ghosts of some specific Marines ofc). So, the way I see it, you should totally go for it if you like the idea. They also got Space Marine Battles: Legion of the Damned from Black Library Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/335681-primaris-legion-of-the-damned/#findComment-4798818 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RainbowWarrior Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 I would say the answer is maybe. It depends on which version of their origins you favour. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/335681-primaris-legion-of-the-damned/#findComment-4798838 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Killmer Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 (edited) The original story appeared in a white dwarf 99 during the 1st edition - there the LotD were the survivors of the firehawks who refused to just yield and die to the malady they got afflicted with during a warp jump. They ultimatively were doomed to die on the battlefield. Edited August 16, 2017 by Chaplain Killmer dogfender and D3L 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/335681-primaris-legion-of-the-damned/#findComment-4798889 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antarius Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 (edited) The original story appeared in a white dwarf during the 1st edition - there the LotD were the survivors of the firehawks who refused to just yield and die to the malady they got afflicted with during a warp jump. They ultimatively were doomed to die on the battlefield. Yeah. I would say that was pretty much retconned out as early as 2nd ed. though (like so much of the Rogue Trader era stuff), which is the first place we encounter them in ther "modern" incarnation. Since then it's been consistently a mystery who/what they are. People are (obviously) free to interpret them as they wish, and I think everyone should make up their headcanon in whatever way that makes them happier. Personally, though, I find the 1st ed. version to be pretty much on par with an Emperor who is awake, Space Marines being a motley crew of criminals on drugs and the Ultramarines chief librarian being a certain Iliyan Nastase, who also happened to be half-eldar. It was a different time, is what I'm saying. In 2nd ed. though, the setting became recognisable as the 40K we know, just like the Space Marines became the Space Marines we know - and so we have Ultramarine Chief Librarian Tigurius - rather than Illiyan Nastase - telling the story of the Legion of the Damned as we've known them ever since. The beauty of this retcon is that it makes everyone free to interpret the LotD the way they want Edited June 27, 2017 by Antarius Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/335681-primaris-legion-of-the-damned/#findComment-4798922 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackalwolf Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 (edited) Can't take the time to read all posts but lore wise and model wise seems like a great idea. There's a Primarch legion of the damned in Master of Mankind. That's the beauty of this Universe, any interesting idea you can explore and delve into whilst still being inside it. Edited June 27, 2017 by WarriorFish Swear dodge removed Antarius 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/335681-primaris-legion-of-the-damned/#findComment-4799145 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atia Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 Actually, the *new* lore from 8th edition does state that the LotD appeared since the dark days of the Horus Heresy :P General Strike 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/335681-primaris-legion-of-the-damned/#findComment-4799189 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonlover Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 The Ordo Chronos Chamber Militant idea is bloody genius. Totally nicking that at some point. Dragonlover General Strike and Slave to Darkness 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/335681-primaris-legion-of-the-damned/#findComment-4799199 Share on other sites More sharing options...
deathspectersgt7 Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 (edited) Just do it . They will be just larger Spectres thats all. Edited June 27, 2017 by deathspectersgt7 Doghouse 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/335681-primaris-legion-of-the-damned/#findComment-4799208 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doghouse Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 It sounds like the Primaris have suffered their loses over the last one hundred years just like everyone else so I honestly can't see why not. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/335681-primaris-legion-of-the-damned/#findComment-4799360 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kinstryfe Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 As posted above, Master of Mankind pretty much showed that the damned are manifestations of dead Astartes. My personal theory is that the emperor can act thru them/their souls in the warp because they share some genetic material. I'd say go for it in any case because they would look cool, just like I'm making regular marines out of Primaris because they look cool :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/335681-primaris-legion-of-the-damned/#findComment-4799797 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabadin Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 (edited) I'd say go for it in any case because they would look cool I'm inclined to agree, Mix in some kit bashing and they'd look even better. Edited June 27, 2017 by Sabadin Uprising, Cryptix and Antarius 3 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/335681-primaris-legion-of-the-damned/#findComment-4799927 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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