Leman Russes weaponry in 8th

[Indefragable]

I am specifically most interested in weapon loadouts and what people are finding effective.

 

In 7th I pretty much only ran Vanquishers, Punishers, and the occasional Exterminator.

 

I plan on running a combination of Infantry squads, conscripts, artillery, and some armored sentinels + hellhound to round out a Brigade.  The issue is I have anti-infantry for days, but could use some more punch.

 

Are Vanquishers worth it this time around?

 

 

[HenricusTyranicus]

Vanquishers are very hit and miss. Artillery can actually be excellent anti tank, very few vehicles can shrug off a barrage or two from some Manticores and Basilisks. Russes are good anti tank partly just because they're very solid platforms for Lascannons, especially commanders and Pask

[ThatOneMarshal]

The 2 best leman russes are currently the punisher for being able to provide much needed anti horde and the demoshiler for having a dangerous gun.

 

The vanquished mathematically speaking, is terrible due to having just so much stacked against it. It's got one shot that's innacuarate and then it has a good chance of not doing anything.

 

GW literally didn't touch the exterminator except for taking away twin linked. 4 autocannon shots aren't all that great.

 

The main battle tank is random as :cuss. Sometimes it'll do great, other times it will Ben terrible. Mostly for multi wound infantry and tanks.

 

I feel that the executioners job has been taken due to how cheap plasma is. Needing a command tank to babysit it if you wanna fire overcharged is fairly frustrating.

 

If you want anti infantry on a vehicle the taurox prime is one of the most efficent horde killers the imperium has due to its Gatling gun. There's also mortar teams that can be spammed and a pask in a punisher for that sweet BS 5.

[Gen.Steiner]

The Demolisher lacks range but is a potent threat as it always has been. Give it a lascannon and multi-meltas and you have a dangerous anti-tank platform with a short range.

The Punisher is good at anti-infantry but you don't need it given the rest of your army really.

Consider three basic LRMBTs with a tank commander and all equipped with lascannons and heavy bolters. Main guns and lascannons can shoot up tanks, heavy bolters can add to your anti-infantry firepower or put hits on light vehicles.

[Jam Master Flex]

I run Pask in a Vanquisher with lascannon, two Executioners with plasma sponsons and lascannons in the hull and a punisher.

 

I've played about 10 or 11 games of 8th and so far my Executioners have been fantastic against everything, MEQ's, Monstrous, Land Raiders etc.

 

Not getting hot with the normal shots is nice.

 

Vanquisher has been ok but I only bring it for Pask.

[NatBrannigan]

What does Pask go in? A vanquisher? Seems a waste considering how poor the main gun is?

 

Also, how many tanks do you need to being before Pask become worth it? If I'm running two tanks would a standard tank commander be a better choice?

[HenricusTyranicus]

What does Pask go in? A vanquisher? Seems a waste considering how poor the main gun is?

 

Also, how many tanks do you need to being before Pask become worth it? If I'm running two tanks would a standard tank commander be a better choice?

Pask is 10 points for plus one ballistic skill. Over a standard tank commander, that is literally never not worth it, for that alone. Orders are just gravy. And very tasty gravy at that!

[Gen.Steiner]

Yeah, Pask is always better than a Tank Commander.

[NatBrannigan]

I do like Gravy... One Pask it is.

[Indefragable]

My instincts point me to run the following:

Hidden Content

Spearhead Detachment = +1CP

 

HQ:

Pask

--Leman Russ Vanquisher

--Lascannon

--2x Multi melta

 

Tank Commander

--Leman Russ Vanquisher

--Lascannon

--2x Multi melta

 

HEAVY SUPPORT:

Leman Russ Exterminator

--Lascannon

--2x Plasma cannons

 

Leman Russ Punisher

--Lascannon

--2x Heavy bolters

 

Leman Russ Battle Tank

--Lascannon

--2x Heavy bolters

 

About the above:

• 2+ To Hit with Pask = the better way to run dedicated long-range AT (Vanq/lascannon).
• Tank Commander is poor man's/secondary Pask for the exact same reason.
• With universal split-fire, Multi-meltas are there to fend off terminators/dreadnoughts/other scary things that get in close
• ....lascannons on everything for the same reason. Split Fire FTW and Gunners, kill on sight! is quite literal in that it affects the whole model. Aka all weapons firing at all targets.

 

General idea of the rest of the list:

Hidden Content

Brigade Detachment = +9 CP (it really is almost laughable how easy it is for IG to unlock this)

 

HQ:

Commissar Yarrick

 

Lord Commissar

 

Company Commander

 

TROOPS:

Infantry Squad

--flamer

 

Infantry Squad

--flamer

 

Infantry Squad

--flamer

 

Infantry Squad

--flamer

 

Infantry Squad

--flamer

 

Conscripts x 50

 

ELITES:

Master of Ordnance

 

Platoon Commander

 

Commissar

 

FAST ATTACK

Hellhound

--heavy flamer

 

Armoured Sentinel

--no idea what to pack for weapons...autocannon? Missile launcher? Plasma?

 

Armoured Sentinel

--no idea what to pack for weapons...autocannon? Missile launcher? Plasma?

 

HEAVY SUPPORT:

Basilisk

--heavy bolter

 

Basilisk

--heavy bolter

 

Wyvern

--heavy bolter

 

Wyvern

--heavy bolter

 

 

• Basically the Conscripts blob up and hold the center, backed by a Commissar or two.
• The Platoon Commander is the dedicated Conscript Order Giver.
• Infantry Squads basically pair up with Leman Russes (in the top hidden list) to provide dedicated bubble-wrap to each.
• Company Commander tags along the LR/IS to throw out Orders
• Wyverns and Basilisks + MoO do what they do best
• Sentinels and Hellhound move around board edges and harass/skirmish.

 

Between the ridiculous # of lasgun shots, Wyverns, and Hellhound that I am not too concerned about blobls. Even most MEQ-class armies I should have enough volume of fire to put a hurtin' on. What I really need is more AT/anti-MC/anti-multi-wound firepower.

 

 

On a different note: thoughts on Armored Sentinel armaments? I previously used Multi-lasers in 7th. Many people in my club swear by heavy flamers, but see the note above about plenty of anti-personnel firepower already.  They could be useful to pack some Plasma cannons, I guess? BS5+ on the move screams multi-shot weapons.

[Gen.Steiner]

Armoured Sentinels work well with autocannons, multi-lasers, or lascannons. In my experience. I run mine in a group of three - two with autocannons and one with a lascannon. Provides a good punch against light vehicles and heavy infantry.

[Akrim]

Im seeing that the ordnance tank varieties are better suited to shooting tanks & monsters now as far as the main guns go. Makes sense i suppose.

[Indefragable]

Im seeing that the ordnance tank varieties are better suited to shooting tanks & monsters now as far as the main guns go. Makes sense i suppose.

 

Yea, I'm leaning towards Ordnance weapons for the turrets and heavy bolter spam for the sponsons. Universal Split Fire is naaaaaaaaasty.

[zero88]

A Punisher with a trio of heavy flamers and storm Bolter looks like a good "Spearhead" tank.. a solid round of shooting and solid round of overwatch can take out a full 30 man mob of Orks. Besides that, a Demolisher looks the best to me kitted out like everyone else has said

[Tallarn Commander]

Vanilla Russes have worked well for me so far in 8th, my battlecannon and sponson plasma cannons have put out a respectable amount of damage. My Russes' lascannons and hull heavy bolters have been lackluster.

 

Now I'll try out the other variants, starting with the Demolisher.

[Gen.Steiner]

I think Demolishers will remain as they always have been - scary. I regret pulling the sponsons off mine now; but what's done is done I guess and the lascannons do give them a bit of ranged zap.

I suspect an 'ideal' Demolisher will be hull heavy flamer, multi-melta sponsons, and the eponymous cannon. Throw in a heavy stubber or storm bolter if you feel like it and you have a 24" radius of DEATH that can dominate much of the battlefield.

[Withershadow]

Best damage output seems to be Pask ordering himself to re-roll 1s, in an executioner with plasma sponsons and a lascannon. Chance of overheat is almost negligible and even then the plasma vents mean its not a death sentence (although still hurts a whole lot).  D6+2D3 shots at S8 AP-3 D2 which hit with a 97% accuracy seems a good way to purge elite infantry and stripping wounds off of vehicles and monsters.  Then the lascannon is just gravy.  Average damage result is 11 wounds vs a T7 Sv3+ profile.

 

 

The heavy flamer punisher I am somewhat skeptical about.  Heavy flamers are crazy expensive and short-ranged (although better than before since you can measure from the hull), and after you are engaged (a certainty at that range), you're super weak in melee.  I wonder if just shooting the heavy bolters for an extra few rounds results in more hits, even with BS4+.

[Indefragable]

Had a 2500pt game last night against a Gladius-style Black Templars force.

 

Brought (among other things):

 

Hidden Content

Pask

--Vanquisher

--Lascannon

--Multi-meltas

 

Tank Commander

--Vanquisher

--Lascannon

--Multi-meltas

 

LR Battle Tank

--Lascannon

--Heavy Bolters

 

LR Executioner

--Lascannon

--Plasma cannons

 

LR Executioner

--Lascannon

--Heavy bolters

 

 

Everything but the LR Battle Tank off on a left flank was re-rolling 1's due to Orders or being near Yarrick (muahahhaaha cheese). That being said....things proved underwhelming.

 

Vanquishers suck. They proved better at stripping a few HP off Rhinos than they did bringing down the sort giant scary threat you'd think they were designed for (Land Raider Crusader full of Assault Termies).

 

It doesn't help that our dice were anecdotally completely mismatched: I was rolling nothing but 2's even even with re-rolling 1's To Hit. Nothing was really working in my favor, but I often like these results early on since you have to plan for hte worst case scenario. The big issue is that S8 is just not reliable for a 1-shot kill the big OMG SCARY thing type weapon. You're wounding Land Raiders (or anything T8) on 4's....and that's if you hit. The LR was getting 4+ cover from it still since 2+ sv +1 for cover. So when I actually hit it, it was a 25% chance of actually doing something....with the scariest gun on my tanks.

 

The lascannons, however, were amazing. With universal split fire there's really no reason (other than cost) not to throw these on every vehicle that can take them. Said Land Raider was getting wounded on 3's with them and even the dakka tanks could take a pot shot or two with them. Short version: MOAR Lascannons

 

Executioners were ok. I rolled decent # hits but his 2+ save in cover just soaked up too much damage. With the number of bodies he had, making 2/5 saves and whatnot still did not kill enough. I would say big plasma has potential.

 

Battle cannon was solidly in the middle of the pack. Didn't really impress me, but didn't really flop either. I guess that's exactly what it's meant to do?

 

Sidenote:

Lasguns are in an interesting place this edition. There's a graph of sorts in terms of their effectiveness. Terminator-types are an ideal target still since the volume of flashlights will make them roll 1's. On the other hand, MSU SM is sort of a perfect foil, since the volume of fire you need to crack 2+ (3+ power armor in cover) saves means that you are either not killing enough 5-man combat squads, or overkilling them. Kind of an interesting predicament. The reason it's preferable (so far, IMO) to target 2+ Termies is that their save is already maxed out at 2+ and each body lost hurts way more to Termies than it does to Tacticals. I'm guesstimating (not fancy charts to show) that it's a bit of a reverse bell-curve where lasguns are effective against very cheap, weak units and expensive units that any wounds you do are just gravy. The middle ground units seem to have the right combo of Save, bodies, and cheapness to make you "waste" your lasguns.

 

Other note:

Basilisks: Big guns are back, baby! So....even though I forgot about their special rule, my 2x Basilisks (and MoO...seriously, so :cuss -ing cheap, why would you ever not take him?) did some work. They opened up Rhinos, blew up Tacticals, and more more effective against the Land Raider than the Vanquishers. Seriously...w/ 2D6 (take the highest) # of shots and S9 AP-2 D:D3, they are good against pretty much anything in the game, especially big scary stuff. Seriously, skip the Vanquishers and bring Basilisks.

[Withershadow]

S9 is a big deal, that puts you above the toughness of any non-superheavy vehicles.  This makes lascannons and basilisks excellent, and missile launchers and meltaguns better suited for going after transports than land raiders.

[Gen.Steiner]

I think the Vanq suffers from lacking S9 on the main gun, which it does have in the GS Cult. So. Yeah. Perhaps an allied GS Cult Vanquisher detachment? :P

Thanks for the report though, the more info the better in all cases!

[gainsay]

Played almost all the variants over the last month and placed 2nd in a tournament with a mech list last weekend. Hands down dakka punisher with past or tank commander then a commander in a demolisher with melta and las and I use two executioners with x3 heavy flamers as support tanks. I would never put sponsons on non command Russ's unless it's flamers.

 

The leman Russ is not a land raider which is what I think many fail to understand. Also I know your asking about russ's but hell hounds have been really good

[Arkeo Nox]

I think Vanquisher Canon is strength 9.

 

Look at Xenos 2 index, Genestealer Cults. Their Vanquishers have S9.

 

I really think it's a typo in IG section.

[Karinon]

Fw vanquishers also have S8 so if anything the S9 GSC is the typo.

[Halfpint100]

I am liking the Conqueror, cheapest platform and it is a 48" battle cannon with a co-axial storm bolter, for 160ish points (thats with 3 heavy bolters)

[Chris521]

Fw vanquishers also have S8 so if anything the S9 GSC is the typo.

 

FAQ just confirmed this.  GSC is now S8