Helbrute Load out

[HeresyBeliever]

So what do you guys and gals think of the new Helbrute Rules?

 

I think they look good on paper. I also thing running the reaper auto cannon and fist looks like a good load out.

 

But what are your thoughts?

 

 

 

[Commissar K.]

Like the SM Dreadnoughts they seem good. Really good perhaps even!
I think that with a Power Scourge they can also be fantastic mainstay units. The option is really that or indeed to have them be capable to hunt other Vechicles. 

But between me and you I am upset that they do not have Death to the False Emperor. Ive said it before but I really miss the typical Chaos Dreadnought and how it was more linked to a former Chaos Space Marine. The Helbrute from a narrative and design perspective just feels more like a big spawn instead of a warrior entombed against its own will. 

[Plaguecaster]

I love Helbrutes with Twin lascannons for dealing serious damage against vehicles coupled with a Power Scourge for 7 Attacks which can cause serious harm to most units slightly expensive at 165pts but totally worth it especially adding some much need long range support to my mostly close ranged death guard force

[the jeske]

don't make them melee. AC/twin las and a second shoty weapon are the way to go. But in general you will fast soon find out that. A you want to run 2 dreads, if you want them to work. and two dreads are one dakka fiend, and dakka fiends are most of the time better two dreads.  for example if you can't run a chaff for your support section, which can happen in small point games I guess.

[HeresyBeliever]

don't make them melee. AC/twin las and a second shoty weapon are the way to go. But in general you will fast soon find out that. A you want to run 2 dreads, if you want them to work. and two dreads are one dakka fiend, and dakka fiends are most of the time better two dreads.  for example if you can't run a chaff for your support section, which can happen in small point games I guess.

I have a 1000 point game coming up and I started to look at the fiends as they used to be my go to unit.

However moving and shooting is now on a 5+ and only gets worse as it gets damaged. for 193 points you get 11 wounds and 8 shots (slightly more powerful than below)

 

The helbrute will be hitting on 4+ when moved without deterioration, same toughness levels and 16 wounds with 8 shots (slightly less powerful than above) all for 260 points. 

[Commissar K.]

Initially skipped on the Helbrute but the topic had me convinced, got one from the starter and will convert it.

I completely agree that what it does is different from a Laspred, Forgefiend etc. The advantage I like about the Helbrutes is how well they preform in melee compaired to them however. Meaning that once again the duality of going melee and ranged plays into the advantage of Chaos.

In addition, 6´s are rare, if you do happen to get that Crazed bonus of things can get destroyed quite easily. Like the others a Helbrute will really like a babysitter but the advantage here is that the same babysitter is not bound to the corner of the tables like it is with Laspreds or Forgefiends. All have pro and cons, in this case I like the Helbrute because it´s relatively cheap and I dig twin-linked Lascannons.

[Laserplane]

((edit - Nevermind, already forgetting the new rules XD )) Edited June 28, 2017 by Laserplane

[Sception]

Since when does the helbrute deep strike?  Are you talking about using a dreadclaw?  That's kind of a ludicrous amount of points to spend on delivering a single helbrute.

[Goreshed]

By RAW cant you attack in each -phase- not turn? Which would mean that at any point in any turn you could potentially have a dread go ballistic and kill some more u its for you

 

To me that seema more powerful than ever before and there is no chance of you killing your own units. Sounds like a fair trade off to me when you still need 6s to pull it off with either ability.

[Commissar K.]

Certainly, each phase! The Helbrute isn't terribly difficult to destroy but can certainly cause some mayhem. Like the SM Dreadnought topics I'd say that thaking one doesn't lead to anything in particular but when you go heavier on them (three) I do think there can be some real advantage gained in the simple fact that one will arrive. 

As is I think the Helbrute with Twin Linked Lascannon and Scourge is a fine choice if you have a Chaos Lord/character available for them. It's some quality shots that certainly leave scars upon anything with multiple wounds. Which isn't a bad proposition.

[Sception]

Helbrutes look decent, but the FW alternatives - decimators, contemptors, derederos, etc - seem like better versions, between being either about the same points for generally better firepower, or being more expensive but for much better firepower.

[Commissar K.]

Helbrutes look decent, but the FW alternatives - decimators, contemptors, derederos, etc - seem like better versions, between being either about the same points for generally better firepower, or being more expensive but for much better firepower.

Certainly dont dissagree with that. Though I do know some local clubs dont allow FW models for the ease on the wallet. While others simply prefer the models available at most local stores.

 

But the same is true for many models. As a Khorne fan I obviously gravitate more towards Blood Slaughterers as Maulerfiends, lots of overlap in tactical adaptation and well... One looks like a Khorne crab, what's not to like?

[Sception]

I think in general shooty chaos is better served by the FW options.  It's not necessarily that our GW stuff is all that much worse or less points efficient, but they lack in the sheer output that 8e seems to call for, especially on the anti-infantry end.  Lashavocs or auto/las preds or even land raiders seem fine against the big stuff.  But while, say, heavy bolter havocs aren't terrible point for point, four heavy bolters per squad simply isn't enough damage to strip screens or dent hordes in this game, while, by comparison, the 12 heavy bolters you get in a rapier squad is.  Or for long range artillery, it's not so much that the defiler's battle cannon is innately a terrible gun, but averaging 1 to 2 hits with it simply isn't enough to meaningfully impact the game.  Where as the amount of work could get done by spending the same points on a deredero or a trio of earthshaker batteries is.

Edited June 28, 2017 by malisteen

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

Anyone had any luck with the plasma cannon? So far in when I;ve tried it the only damage it;s done was to the hellbrute itself, and I'm thinking of swapping it out for a twin lascannon or twin heavy bolter.
 

[Plaguecaster]

Nah only way Plasma can be good is if you have a chaos lord nearby to babysit the big guy to stop him hurting himself which sucks as it would of been cool plasma cannons having a normal and supercharge shot like the normal plasma weapons. Depends on what you want if you want more shots then heavy bolter is best otherwise twin las is best for large single high wound models like vehicles or monsters Edited June 28, 2017 by Plaguecaster

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Unfortunately, I'm kind of stuck with my plasma cannon.  I've got two bodies of the old, out of production Alpha Legion box-nought from Forge World with three main gun arm options between them: multimelta, lascannons, and plasma cannons.  One is going to get the lascannons, and combined with the rest of my planned army, I don't think I need the melta.  So plasma cannon it is...

[HeresyBeliever]

I plan on running a vanguard list in a 1000 point game coming up.

 

Which includes:

warpsmith

Helbrute with Lascannon and Missile Launcher

Helbrute with lascannon and Fist

Decimator with butcher cannon and Claw.

Predator

Cultist

Spawn and Giant spawn

 

Looks sweet on paper

[bozo69pd]

Ran 3 brutes with flamer pfists and missile launchers, a sorc typhus and 30 poxwalkers in a 50 pp game against a SW player and a Ynarri player. The helbrutes were not hard to kill for either of them at all. I did greatly enjoy the heavy flamer though because they annihilated anything that moved near enough, so I got to clear a zone for my zombies to advance safely onto objectives.

 

I guess I did enjoy their 8" move, and while 8 wounds sounds like a bunch they definitely go down in a couple of turns.

[Hellex_The_Thanatar]

Sorry but why take a hellbrute over a decimator UNLESS your brute is taking las cannons?

 

Besides that one gun I can't think of a good reason why brutes are good?

Edited June 29, 2017 by Hellex_The_Thanatar

[Goreshed]

Because some people don't support/cant afford FW?

[Kaldoth]

Sorry but why take a hellbrute over a decimator UNLESS your brute is taking las cannons?

 

Besides that one gun I can't think of a good reason why brutes are good?

The amount of money in my wallet :P On a more serious note, Brutes definitely seem like they will do a lot better than they did last edition. I havent had a chance to look at th3le new IA books, but do we still have access to all the old rules that you could give to vehicles? I dont remember exactly what they were called, but they basicallly gave your vehicles special abilities or USRs for extra points. Edited June 30, 2017 by Kaldoth

[Commissar K.]

Sorry but why take a hellbrute over a decimator UNLESS your brute is taking las cannons?

 

Besides that one gun I can't think of a good reason why brutes are good?

Then give it that. Still in the middle of cutting into mine.

 

Twinlinked Lascannon and Fidget Spinner it will be.

[bozo69pd]

Sorry but why take a hellbrute over a decimator UNLESS your brute is taking las cannons?

 

Besides that one gun I can't think of a good reason why brutes are good?

Yeah in retrospect I should have taken the las cannon cuz my missiles whiffed some shots. I took the missiles though because at such a small point level (50 pp) I thought the option to switch between flak and krak would give me good flexibility against the harlies in their vehicles. My mistake. Poxwalkers still claimed the win though. In the end for the points I would have been better off with all terminator sorcerers instead.

[Commissar K.]

 

Sorry but why take a hellbrute over a decimator UNLESS your brute is taking las cannons?

 

Besides that one gun I can't think of a good reason why brutes are good?

Yeah in retrospect I should have taken the las cannon cuz my missiles whiffed some shots. I took the missiles though because at such a small point level (50 pp) I thought the option to switch between flak and krak would give me good flexibility against the harlies in their vehicles. My mistake. Poxwalkers still claimed the win though. In the end for the points I would have been better off with all terminator sorcerers instead.

 

perhaps, time to check that out next time. Brute with Lascan and Scourge seems finest to me. Thing wont cross the fields hammering tanks. It will see Termies and enough fire to bring it down but multiples are an awnser to that, or Warptime offcourse.

 

Sorcerers in Terminator armour are a mans best friend, that to me is for certain :) 

[Archaeinox]

I believe the TL lascannon is a great weapon but I also believe that if you take the helbrute at all you should consider a melee weapon (this is coming from a TS perspective, so I need melee help). 

 

It's quite helpful to plink those lascannon shots at a target in the distance, and then charge a closer target. Hooray for 8th!

 

But then I'm like, well.. If you are taking a 48" weapon leave his butt in the back and dont run him up. Otherwise, take the heavy bolters or something.

Edited June 30, 2017 by Archaeinox