Helbrute Load out

[tbone]

I feel that if you are going to run a hellbrutes at all, you NEED to kit it out for melee. Dakka minded brutes are seriously outclassed by so many things. I think the fist is the best because it has reliable damage for output and allows you to bring a heavy flamer. While the scourge is better against 1 and 2 wound models, the heavy flamer can easily make up for this. Since the fist and flamer is a bit pricey, and I clearly need to get up close anyway, the multi-melta seems the most reasonable purchase. 156 points for that seems pretty decent for an 8" move model that has the potential to dish 24 damage in a single turn. :D

[Kaldoth]

I feel that if you are going to run a hellbrutes at all, you NEED to kit it out for melee. Dakka minded brutes are seriously outclassed by so many things. I think the fist is the best because it has reliable damage for output and allows you to bring a heavy flamer. While the scourge is better against 1 and 2 wound models, the heavy flamer can easily make up for this. Since the fist and flamer is a bit pricey, and I clearly need to get up close anyway, the multi-melta seems the most reasonable purchase. 156 points for that seems pretty decent for an 8" move model that has the potential to dish 24 damage in a single turn. :D

I dont disagree on any particular point, especially in regards to its damage output. The only issue I see with a melee oriented brute is the issue we have always had with them: delivery. While 8 wounds certainly isnt bad, thats only a few lascannon shots. If your local boards have the terrain for you to advance behind, I could see this working. Your first turn of shooting will be foregone because a melta has short range anyway, and you'll need to advance. Your best case scenario is a fourteen inch move, your worst case is nine. Planning for the worst, that means its very likely youll have to do the same in turn two unless your opponent is foolish enough to move something within a turn two charge range. So, turn three is likely where your brute will get to pile in. Thats a lot of shooting attacks to endure with only eight wounds. If you can keep him safe in that time, then yeah, the melta and PF/Flamer combo would be very nasty. But, the lascannon at least gives you the option of getting some damage out if your opponent wants to get rid of it right out the gate. It also makes for a great objective sitter, especially when paired with say a squad of noise marines. I also agree with the notion of running them in pairs for the purposes of splitting enemy fire/altering his deployment plans.

[bozo69pd]

You can always pray for it to go berserk after some hits :)

[tbone]

I agree that hellbrutes should be run in pairs and alongside some other some other armor to provide target saturation. That is the only real way for them to get into combat. I plan on running my 2 brutes with 2 Maulerfiends and a Renegade Knight, and some rhinos for mobile cover.

I have two grips with the twin las.

1. I feel if I'm going to pay for las, there are way better platforms for it. Las Havoc and Las preds seem way better if you want more Las in your list.

2. Twinlas is the most expensive shooty arm option. Since the goal of the brute should be to get into combat or die trying, taking an expensive ranged weapon, makes the decision to advance less appealing. Plus if the brute was tarpitted or blown up early in the game, those extra points on Las are quite a waste.

Edited June 30, 2017 by tbone

[HeresyBeliever]

I have now had 2 matches with a Helbrute vanguard list as test games for my tournament list. 

 

 In my first match I had a selection of load outs including 1 rocket  launcher / lascannon brute

 

After my first match (and a FAQ increase of the Soulburber point cost) I added a rocket launcher / Twin Heavy bolter brute as i felt like i needed that extra help to deal with hordes.

 

After my second match 4 rounds of shooting and I only ruled a maximum of 3 shoots each turn from both of the missile launchers. As they are only S4 with no AP I wasn't impressed.

 

Moving forward I have scrapped the missile launcher on the heavy bolter brute for a power scourge.

Both games have seen me really dish out the hurt with 1 power scourge in the list with 7 S8 AP-2. Against hordes or marines most of the time you are hitting on 3+ and wounding on 2+. So having 2 in the list I have high hopes.

 

My list includes the below brutes 

 

1 x Fist (combi bolter) + reaper auto cannon

1 x Power scourge + reaper auto cannon

1 x Power scourge + Twin heavy bolter

1 x Missile launcher + Twin Lascannon.

[Sonoftherubric21]

Generally within 8th (this is for dreads in general and also helbrutes) I find them to be quite good.  

 

Their points costs feel right, their staying power is fine for what it is, but they do need support. the basic ones in the chaos book are decent, have a great plastic kit, and perform well on the table. but give them a job. I own 2 of the chaos contemptors; one is the Dark vengance helbrute with fist/multimelta helps with AT and multiwound models and has good kick in melee, the other is Las-cannon / Missile launcher for ranged AT, both are reasonably well priced and often do fairly well.....that being said; NEVER expect them to live all game. lol. 

the FW variants are stellar but also have a jacked up point cost to accompany them, standard helbrute for chaos clocking in between 140-160 points on average, while the Contemptor comes in around 180-230 depending on build (oddly in this case loyalist contemptors are a bit more costly overall.....huh...) 

 

The Deredeo and Leviathan are also of course wonderful options with (as you would expect) incredibly potent weapons at an incredibly high cost. Leviathans and Deredeos both falling in high 200's low 300's all dependent on load out. 

 

By way of example; I have one regular helbrute for my 1k sons for some AT and Melee (as Archaeinox stated. very true) and I also have one Duel-Kheres using Chaos Contemptor for helping with another issue of the 1k sons; Hordes.  We certainly have quality shooting; volume is another issue all together that 12 shots at str 7 with ap-1 helps tremendously in this case. 

[Drudge Dreadnought]

It seems like Dual Blastmaster and Scourge is going to be a great combo.

[Panzer]

It seems like Dual Blastmaster and Scourge is going to be a great combo.

That's exactly what I'm planning to use. :D

[Maschinenpriester]

As follower of the teachings of slaanesh I also would like to try the blastmaster loadout. Where do i find the sonic dread rules? Forgeworld index? I have played a powerfist with kombibolter, twin linked lascannon loadout yet. It was... okish. As the survivability of the hellbrute is better, it dealt some damage, and was drawing some fire on itself. =D Edited July 22, 2017 by Maschinenpriester

[Drudge Dreadnought]

As follower of the teachings of slaanesh I also would like to try the blastmaster loadout. Where do i find the sonic dread rules? Forgeworld index? I have played a powerfist with kombibolter, twin linked lascannon loadout yet. It was... okish. As the survivability of the hellbrute is better, it dealt some damage, and was drawing some fire on itself. =D

 

It is in the FAQ for the Imperial Armor chaos book. You can find it on the FW website. But all it says is that Helbrutes with the Emperor's Children keyword can swap their multi-melta for 2 blastmasters (not linked, they are technically 2 separate weapons!) and may take a Doom Siren.

[tbone]

Unless you're running a themed list it may make sense to wait until we receive our codex before you start replacing arms. We've seen some the chapter tactics and if those are any indication of the legion benefits we may get...different weapons will work better for different legions. For example a multi-melta benefits more from the salamander chapter tactic than other weapons do.

[Xenith]

The next one to be painted will be the classic plasma cannon/power scourge for my thousand sons. Loving the new scourge rules.

[MoGuy]

Have you had success with a Twin-Las + Missile Launcher Helbrute? Mine is just very underwhelming tbh. I feel like you have to run at least two of these to actually dish out some hurt but then you are looking at almost 300 points and you can just get a Discopred for cheaper. :/

 

Maybe melee is more of their calling? But then they would somewhat compete with my Bloatdrones which are waaay more resilient and just overall very awesome.

[Raven1]

I have had the thought of running my mm/fist brute with a sorcerer to warptime up the board, but i just like predators more for their value.

[bozo69pd]

Sounds like helbrutes get <LEGION> ability so that has a huge impact on their playstyle then yes?

[MoGuy]

It'll depend. If my <Death Guard> Helbrutes get the Disgustingly Resilient rule then they might be more viable. 

[MoK]

Oh yes two Helbrute Fists with Heavy Flamers and MoK in a World Eaters Army. 7 strength 12 attacks on the charge, mwahahaha

[Chainsword Cookie]

Mine has been a piece of nasty since the first day in my army list. Multi-Melta, Helbrute Power Fist and Heavy Flamer. It has killed Librarians, a Hemlock Wraithfighter, Ork Trukks and has brutalized several squads of marines and Aeldari in combat. 

 

The adversary cannot ignore it, nor it is much of a threat. When Crazed procs it pays to have a mixed loadout and it is nice to split fire with the weapons.