How do you use Relic Lords of War?

[God-Potato of Mankind]

I am a bit miffed at the Relic rule not having a clause that stipulates "unless you just take one"

 

Because how do I run an Astartes LoW? The only non-relic ones are Guilliman and the Thunderhawks?

 

Hell even the LoW auxiliary detachmemt can only take one LoW so its unable to take Relics?

 

I just really want to run a Falchion but....unless I buy a Thunderhawk r Guilliman I literally cant?

 

Unless I take my Stormlord because of the Imperium keyword?

 

Or, I guess I go unbound and forgo CPs? Or can you have an unbound army and a detachment???

Edited June 27, 2017 by God-Potato of Mankind

[Gaius Valarius]

I emailed Forgeworld regarding this exact topic. Their response was they have done this deliberately to prevent spamming Relic LoW's with Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachments. They conceded that they have made fielding these models difficult and are going to look at possibly adjusting things in the future. The only solution now is to use a Super-Heavy Detachment. I suppose the easiest way is running one Relic LoW and two Knights or throw Guilliman in the mix. I'm really glad I didn't purchase the Spartans that were on my list!

[God-Potato of Mankind]

What a stupid idea, to be frank.

 

How you can spam units that cost almost as much as an entire army is beyond me?

 

Also why does it even matter? What, exactly, is cheesier about fielding 3 FW LoWs over 3 GW LoWs???

 

Absurd.

 

They need to include a Relic detachment - can include *one* Relic unit of choice, hell even give it -1 CP!

Edited June 28, 2017 by God-Potato of Mankind

[Ishagu]

It's really dumb as it basically stops you from ever running one :-/

 

Although, it does push me into cheesy lists such as:

 

Guilliman

Falchion

Imperial Knight

100 conscript Guardsmen

-Commissar

Edited June 28, 2017 by Ishagu

[God-Potato of Mankind]

"We shall defeat cheese, by ensuring we force players to...take cheese"

 

- FW logic on 8ed.

[Helycon]

It's even dumber when you realise Chaos players can actually spam these things without any issue, since theirs are 'Hellforged' and not limited.

[Ebon Hand]

For what it's worth, if I come across anyone that wants to use one of these sick Lords of War, I'd let them play it against me, maybe making up a new Relic of the Chapter detachment with +0 command points with 1 compulsory LOW Slot (that must be a Relic) and 1 compulsory HQ slot (must be Techmarine that takes a Servo Harness) and 1 optional elite slot (must be servitors).

 

I think that's more than fair, and the Martians can't stop us. We have Heretics to slay and we can't be slowed down by the minutia of the codex. Are you with me brothers?

[Gaius Valarius]

For what it's worth, if I come across anyone that wants to use one of these sick Lords of War, I'd let them play it against me, maybe making up a new Relic of the Chapter detachment with +0 command points with 1 compulsory LOW Slot (that must be a Relic) and 1 compulsory HQ slot (must be Techmarine that takes a Servo Harness) and 1 optional elite slot (must be servitors).

 

I think that's more than fair, and the Martians can't stop us. We have Heretics to slay and we can't be slowed down by the minutia of the codex. Are you with me brothers?

I agree that a specific detachment might take care of the issue. While I never had any intention of using multiple LoW, a single Spartan would have been interesting to deliver the pain.

[Ebon Hand]

I would be surprised if they didn't address it with a new detachment. Probably some kind of apocalypse detachment to limit Spartans popping up in small games. They want people to use their models, but I think they are trying to hamper abuse, which is a commendable stance, but in this case their implementation is a bit extreme.

[Bmseifer]

Isn't it only the astartes LoW''s that have the relic rule?

 

How can that be an intent to stop people taking cheesy Lows from FW if the other factions don't have the same limitations?

 

Chaos can take a single Spartan in a detachment (are they so much worse?). AM can have a macharius without limitations.

 

My guess is its a fluff reason like the MotF of old, and they just goofed making it nigh impossible to use with our relic LoW''s. With other battlefield roles it works imo

[God-Potato of Mankind]

Yup, only Astartes have Relic keywords I think.

 

It is a poorly thought out byproduct from I think 7th which had limits like "you must take a master of the forge" etc but then again all yhe FW indices were poorly thought out garbage ...

 

I am going to email FW with feedback it is poorly implemented. I suggest everyone does as it will hopefully make them aware -_-

 

In the mean time I will ask the Local GW if they mind my Falchion. I am fairly confident people will cry foul. People instantly become rule sticklers when they feel they are unfair :(

Edited June 28, 2017 by God-Potato of Mankind

[Ebon Hand]

Just flap your arms and make chicken noises. If they still say no and you win the game anyway then you get to relish the fact that not only did you beat them, but they were too 'yeller' to even face your mighty tank. I kid! Sorta. :p

[Claws and Effect]

I thought there was a single LoW slot available in the battalion and brigade detachments?

[Ebon Hand]

Those detachments don't have any Lords of War slots. The only single slots you can get are in the supreme command detachment or a super-heavy auxillary detachment.

 

So the only way to get a Relic Lord of War in a battle forged army is to take a super heavy detachment and take two other Lords of War.

 

Failing that, using a Relic Lord of War automatically makes you not battle forged and you forfeit your command points. Worth it for a badass Falchion or Spartan? You decide. On the plus side you could go nuts with the rest of your army as well.

 

Unless you just want to use my Relic of the Chapter detachment... I won't tell the Mechanicum if you don't.

Edited June 30, 2017 by Ebon Hand

[Dariokan]

Brothers, rejoice :
 

 

ERRATA

Page 4

– Additional Rules, Relic

Change the first paragraph to read:

‘If your army is Battle-forged, no Detachment can

contain more Relic units than it does non-Relic units

of the same Battlefield Role. You can, however, include

a single Relic Lord of War unit in your army even if it

contains no non-Relic Lord of War units (you cannot

include second and subsequent Relic Lord of War units

unless they are taken in a Detachment that contains at

least as many non-Relic Lord of War units).

Edited July 9, 2017 by Dariokan

[God-Potato of Mankind]

Oh, such glory. Such glory!

[Iron Lord]

Note that this allows you to take that first one as a lone LOW Auxiliary Detachment - though all the rest must be taken in the "minimum of 3" Lord of War detachments.

[Kua]

Yes, it would have been more elegant to just allow single Relics in the auxiliary support detachment without any further limitations.

 

So, if you want one, you pay one CP, for two two CP and if you want thunderhwaks in addition yo get CP via the super-heavy detachment.

[Tyberos the Red Wake]

It's good that they fixed the LoW situation, but I still think the first relic you take shouldn't have a tax for any slot. To me, 1 Leviathan and 0 HS seems more reasonable than 2 Leviathans and 2 other HS.

[Ebon Hand]

You don't always have to lose a cp, you can take one in the supreme command detachment too and still gain a cp. I'm glad they sorted that out, and not a bad way of solving it.

[Helycon]

Where does it say you lose a CP? The super-heavy auxiliary detachment neither gives nor subtracts one.

Very happy with the fix though, reckon I'll order that Spartan soon!

Edited July 10, 2017 by Helycon

[Bmseifer]

He didn't say that

 

He said it 'would be' a more elegant solution ndoing it that way, thus making it a tax cost of 1 CP

Edited July 10, 2017 by Bmseifer

[Helycon]

He didn't say that

 

He said it 'would be' a more elegant solution ndoing it that way, thus making it a tax cost of 1 CP

Fair enough, but I reckon this is a better solution to keep relics relics. I'm already pretty happy they changed it like they did.

[Kua]

Yes, it was just an alternative suggestion, not what FW actually did.

You’d lose CP (instead of staying CP-neutral), but at this cost would be more flexible how many you take. And the non-relics would keep an advantage, even when being the first LoW. As it is now, it doesn’t matter but you are still not very flexible (even though much more so than before the errata).

[Ebon Hand]

Oh my bad, I thought Kua was saying that since the aux LOW detachment doesn't add a cp, you are missing out on one by taking it.

 

I suppose if you really wanted to take multiple relics, you could still just forego being battle forged. It might even be worth it in some situations.

 

I think their goal with the Relic rule is make sure that the relics feel rare for Loyalist forces (who have a lot of options to begin with, much more than any other faction) as opposed to Chaos where it makes sense that they have those machines and don't care about preserving them.

 

Now that it's fixed I been thinking of saving up to get a Relic Lord of War for my Black Templars...