111 points for a Command Point

[patchestheclown]

So, if my calculations are correct Astra Militarum can take a spearhead detachment with a naked company commander and 3 heavy weapons teams all with mortars for 111points! And bringing this detachment gives +1 CP!!

 

So in any Imperium army you can get an extra CP and some halfway descent fire support with an order monkey. 3 mortars get 3D6 shots so average 9-12, half hit so 4-6 hits vs T4 targts half wound 2-3 wounds, against 3+ saves is ~1 unsaved wound a turn within 48".

Oh yeah and multiply that by 3!

 

Now you know what to do if you ever find yourself with 100 or so leftover points!! Is there a better deal than this?? Constant damage with no LOS needed AND a Command point!?!

[Bmseifer]

You could also bring a vanguard detachment with a buff(company) commander and 3 Astropaths for 85pts, also giving +1CP.

 

The commander does his thing and then you have 3 psykers for deny rolls and the odd psychic powers. Smite on 1d6 might land a lucky wound now and then but the real gem is the power that grants +1 Save to an AM unit. Why not give your <insert random bane blade chassi here> a 2+ save?

[ThatOneMarshal]

Mortars are bad

Yeah but their cheap. Hordes are the big thing now and the imperium doesn't have a whole lot of cheap firepower for that. They are one of the better weapons the guard has now.

[HenricusTyranicus]

A heavy bolter is 3 more points and will do consistently more damage than a mortar, hit arguably more often, and reduce an armor save.

 

The mortar is a poor weapon that fills a role better filled by a wyvern or massed lasgun fire. It's filling a niche already filled by other, more statistically superior options.

Not true, fam. A mortar has an average of 3.5 shots, a Heavy Bolter three. But a Mortar can hide out of line of site, and suffer no loss of accuracy, making it significantly more survivable. For  fewer points than a Wyvern, you can bring 9d6 shots per turn, at a range twice that of lasgun fire, and with +1S. It's sole disadvantage is that it take up a full heavy support slot. However, this is incredibly easy to turn into a command point by simply adding a Commander. 

[ROBOcaster]

You're forgetting the rule of cool, mortars are much cooler.

[zero88]

Actually, statistically speaking three full mortar squads will inflict more wounds on a T4 target due to sheer mass of fire. 4D6 shots with shred does not equal 9D6 shots. Sure a wyvern is way more survivable, but is it more survivable than NINE separate units? ...im not sure. A LOT will depend on terrain, footprint of your army, what your opponent has etc etc, but to say a Wyvern is a clear cut winner over three mortar squads I think is inaccurate.

[Jacinda]

85 points of wyverns will net an average of 1.625 unsaved wounds per turn -- that's an average across T3, T4 and T5 models.
85 points of wyverns have 11 Wounds.

 

85 points of Mortar HWS will cause an average of 4.958333 unsaved wounds per turn.

85 points of Mortar HWS have 34 wounds.

 

It will take 66 Heavy Bolter hits to kill 85 points of wyverns

It will take 59.5 Heavy Bolter hits to kill 85 points of Mortar HWS

 

It will take 9.375 Battle Cannon hits to kill 85 points of wyverns

It will take 19.833 Battle Cannon hits to kill 85 points of Mortar HWS

 

It will take 1 deployment turn to put 85 points of wyverns on the table

It will take 6 deployment turns to put 85 points of Mortar HWS on the table.

 

If you want to make sure you go first, are facing only small arms fire and don't mind causing 1/3 of the possible casualties per turn, that wyvern would be ideal.

[Truesight]

You forgot the main point or mortars: Indirect fire. You need weapons that can hit valuable troops the enemy has kept out of line of sight.  Since they are also out of sight they are harder to kill than heavy bolters.  Mortars have a role and they are so cheap they will always prove their points.  Also, consider that we can split fire squads now, we can take squads of one lascannon 2 mortars, only the lascannon needs sight so they can take a good position, and the mortars can eat the wounds coming their way while adding cheap fire.

 

Not to mention: 3 mortar squads out shoot a wyvern, cover more space to prevent deep strikes, and are cheaper.

[patchestheclown]

Being able to sit out of LOS and still deliver shots I think is what makes mortars better than just about any other heavy weapons team configuration because no matter what weapon they all suffer from low model count, poor leadership, and poor saves. Either its gonna be the wounds caused of morale busting that does them in. Mortars can mitigate this significantly while still delivering wounds across the board. Also if your opponent dedicated resources to remove a mortar squad rather than anything else in your army... well that's a win for you!

 

BUT regardless of how good/bad mortars are I think people will call them average, its still 111pts for a Command Point!?!?! Can any army even get close to this in terms of pts per CP? Even if mortars suck, that CP can help your whole army full of stuff that doesn't suck. 

[Captain_Krash]

Mortars are seriously good just the look on my opponents face when he's getting hit by 9 mortars a turn while there hiding behind terrain and he can't target them, not only protecting the back field from enemy deepstirkers but shredding wounds off of units. It's a no brainer and a win win.

 

Krash

[Captain_Krash]

Definitely give them a shot! Let us know when you do! Theory hammer is good and all but I have no problems rolling well above average when it counts, much to my best friends dismay

 

Krash   

[Galron]

Also the opponent has to dedicate more than one unit to kill all those mortars as opposed to being able to concentrate fire on a lone wyvern(I would never bring less than two but I digress). Both my ground pounder army and my Elysians field 3 mortar squads at a minimum. Its also easy to put a mortar squad in cover(for its dubious value) in terrain scarce boards freeing up spots for other vehicles to go.

 

All that said, both are stupidly viable and points efficient and both should be used. I never even thought of playing the CP manipulation game using cheap squads like this for that purpose.

[Cap'm Heckus]

While I am not specifically FOR mortars, there is also the matter of "deep strike denial" which is becoming more of an issue. I could space out 3x3 mortar teams along my back line creating more of a "Nope" bubble. 1 tank provides a 3rd of that.

[HackedDuck]

For some people (myself included) money is a big factor to what you buy and put into lists. This is why I own a wyvern and not 3 mortars teams :lol: though I am considering using the mortars from the sprues to make the teams instead of having to buy more heavy weapon teams

[Withershadow]

Heavy weapon teams aren't that concerned about morale. If you lose one model, you only lose another on a 6. If you lose two models, you only lose the unit on a 5. A nearby commissar or standard removes the issue from consideration.

[Karinon]

The thing with Mortar teams is they will always be doing damage as they ignore LOS, so they may do less damage than other options but they will always be able to hit something, whereas other options may miss a turn of shooting if the enemy hides out of LOS.