Company master in Gravis Armor color scheme

[ronin_cse]

Hello!

 

So was just wondering: it looks like the CM in Gravis Armor gets the Deathwing keyword (as does any CM)...since Gravis Armor is kind of like the primaris version of terminator armor would that mean a CM in Gravis would be painted in the bone color scheme?

 

Let's leave the question of how such a "young" space marine could possibly be inducted into the Deathwing, let's just assume it has been a few centuries or something. I'm just curious on people's thoughts on the matter.

 

Thanks!

[ronin_cse]

Hmmmm sorry looks like this was already asked: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334420-dark-angels-and-gravis-armour-colourscheme/

 

I dunno if the discussion on that thread satisfies my question though as it just relies on the opinion of a store manager. Personally I don't think it's as clear cut as saying it is the same as artificer armor, especially after reading Dark Imperium and getting a bit more of a description of it. Obviously the final choice comes down to each individual modeler but I'm still curious on the consensus as far as the narrative goes.

[Grotsmasha]

For me, the name holds the answer. Although it may function as Primaris TDA, it is mkX Power Armour, not mkX Terminator Armour. As Power Armour, it should be green.

 

My 2c, cheers,

Jono

[ronin_cse]

For me, the name holds the answer. Although it may function as Primaris TDA, it is mkX Power Armour, not mkX Terminator Armour. As Power Armour, it should be green.

 

My 2c, cheers,

Jono

 

Well to be fair Terminator Armor is also a type of Power Armor :p.

 

Are we to assume that the Dark Angels are absolutely incapable of updating their methods and command structure? If an armor type fills the same role does it really matter that it is called something different? I understand that traditionally the 1st company has been comprised entirely of marines in Terminator armor, but that is of course the description before the Primaris were "invented".

 

Actually for me the biggest hurdle here is that the DW already have a named Captain/Grand Master so that makes it a little odd

[jbaeza94]

Well, if you want to run him in a Deathwing squad or army, i say bone. if its just a 3rd, 4th, or general DA army, green.
on how a primaris can be Deathwing, well remember that regular marines can be upgraded into primaris. he could just be a Captain or very senior SGT who got promoted to the role of Captain.

 

Also Deathwing is more than a company. IChaplains are Deathwing, Librarians are Deathwing, all Company Masters are Deathwing.

Edited June 29, 2017 by jbaeza94

[Grotsmasha]

Brief fluff scenario.

 

Gulliman shows up, presents the Primaris to Azrael and the Dark Angels.

Does Azrael and The Inner Circle;

1- Deploy them in Green, as a battle company, or,

2- Immediately promote all Gravis bearing primaries to the Deathwing and spill the Legions secrets?

 

Now, onto a Marine who's earned their place in the Deathwing, and is promoted to Captain, remains a member of the Inner Circle, but not an active Deathing Veteran. If he is deployed in the Battle Companies, his armour is Green.

 

The problem stems from generalized Indexes. This is the first time in a long time that a TDA Captain is an option for the DA. There is no precedent. We can't look to successor chapters, as unique colour schemes for the 1st and 2nd Companies is a Dark Angel thing, not an Unforgiven Legion thing.

 

If you need ironclad decisions, you'll need to wait until Coded: Dark Angels is released for 8th Ed.

[jbaeza94]

TDA Company Master has been a thing for as long as ive been playing (6th ed)

 

If companies keep the 100 marine rule, i dont think captains would be included with the primaris, because, where do normal marine masters go? any DA primaris captain  would come up through the ranks or be an upgraded master in my opinion. after all, theyre there to reinforce not to replace (for the time being at least)

Edited June 29, 2017 by jbaeza94

[Brother Sergeant Luther]

Also Deathwing is more than a company. IChaplains are Deathwing, Librarians are Deathwing, all Company Masters are Deathwing.

The Deathwing is just the first company, just as Chaplains are attached to companies from the Reclusiam, Interogator Chaplains and Libraians can be attached to the first company.

 

The secret society that they, the Deathwing and the Company Masters belong to is called the Inner Circle. The deathwing make up part of it, they aren't the same thing. Company Masters and Azrael are all former members of the Deathwing but are part of the Inner Circle.

 

As for colour of gravis armour only serving members of the Deathwing wear the bone of the company, they even wear bone power armour (as covered in the Unforgiven by Gav Thorpe). So to such the only Company Master I'd expect in Bone would be Belial and the only marines in Bone to be those serving in the Deathwing

[Bryan Blaire]

Brother Sergeant Luther, the analysis of the Deathwing you posted is one interpretation of fluff throughout the years, however, there was very much a time where it was the Deathwing that was the outer ring of the inward knowledge spiral of the Unforgiven, culminating with the Inner Circle at the center with a very small membership. So if you were Inner Circle, you were also Deathwing, and any intervening steps of knowledge in between, but Deathwing weren't Inner Circle.

 

Given the Unforgiven trilogy, I think it is a misapplication of the fluff to say that the Deathwing are members of the Inner Circle. They are Deathwing and have some knowledge. Some may be members of the Inner Circle.

 

My personal head canon of the whole thing is significantly more complex than even GW has presented it all as, but that stems more from personal views than provided fluff.

 

As far as a Gravis Captain in DW colors: that really comes down to how you see them integrated into the Dark Angels - if you think that could be given a place within that org structure, then bone would probably be appropriate. If you don't think they would be Deathwing, then green would be the color de jure.

[BlackTriton]

As far as my interpretation goes, The first company is called the deathwing, and they paint their armor in bonewhite, TDA or otherwise.

Since it is told that all member of the deathwing wears terminator armor, it is easy to assume (maybe wrongly) that all terminator armor in the DA chapter is bonewhite.

 

I do not beleive the deathwing keyword to be any indication of how you should paint your mini, I would rather go with Brother Sergeant Luther suggestion: "only serving members of the Deathwing wear the bone of the company,[...] So to such the only Company Master I'd expect in Bone would be Belial"

[Grand Master Belial]

As the Primaris Marines are still new to the Chapter, they will most likely have to prove themselves before they are inducted into the Deathwing/Inner Circle and as such would bear green armor with no DW iconography or bone robes/cloak/cape. Now if a member of the DW/IC were to undergo the gene therapy, they that marine still bears the right to wear the iconography. This would show up as a Veteran Sergeant leading Primaris Marines and having something bone on him like Naaman did as a Scout or how veterans in power armor wear bone robes over them.

 

As it stands, unless it is Belial that underwent gene therapy, they would be green. Now if he was Belial’s Lieutenant, then he could wear bone armor but not sure about the armament then. I am still catching up with everything that has happened.

[Master Sheol]

Considering that is possible to upgrade a marine to primaris and that in DA index primaris Captain (Master) gets the DW keyword and Unforgiven rule i think that DA is already getting primaris info the DW

 

However i dont think that Gravis armour is the primaris equivalent of TDA but more like an artificer armour so IMHO Gravis armour should be green ;)

[Kastor Krieg]

Primaris are not by any kind of account "young". Also, they could be Chapter Marines uplifted with the use of RG's technology, not outsiders.

[Darkn3ssF4lls]

Primaris are not by any kind of account "young". Also, they could be Chapter Marines uplifted with the use of RG's technology, not outsiders.

This is true the originals are from 30k the chapters are supposed to get the tech to make them. Would they make them with neophytes or be able to make them form existing. I don't think existing would make sense. How would that work? Could the body handle the double transformation?

[Frater Cornelius]

 

Primaris are not by any kind of account "young". Also, they could be Chapter Marines uplifted with the use of RG's technology, not outsiders.

This is true the originals are from 30k the chapters are supposed to get the tech to make them. Would they make them with neophytes or be able to make them form existing. I don't think existing would make sense. How would that work? Could the body handle the double transformation?

 

 

Marines can handle their body being blown apart by an artillery shell and carry on as a Dread or highly augmented. I do not see how another transformation is beyond the upper eschelon of Marines, to be fair. The body is nothing, the spirit is everything. DA are not the least in the latter department.

[Aziras]

Since GW went along and put a named Captain in DW, that would be a no-go for a primaris generic captain.

 

Regarding inner circle and Deathwing. In most interpretations of the structure, all higher ranked personnel in DA are recruited from DW. Which means you cannot become a captain without having served in the DW company.

 

Regarding color scheme... the DW "tribute white" armor is only for their company. It is not a rank thing, but a tribute to a historic event within that company. In my mind, it is only the first company of the Dark Angels (the Deathwing) that wears bone/ash white armor.

 

That said, all primaris marines wanting to be part of my version of the Dark Angels legion will get told to stay with the blue man group and the wannabe emperor.

[Brother Sergeant Luther]

Regarding inner circle and Deathwing. In most interpretations of the structure, all higher ranked personnel in DA are recruited from DW. Which means you cannot become a captain without having served in the DW company.

 

With the exception of Sammael it would seem

[Grand Master Belial]

Sammael was inducted into the Deathwing/Inner Circle Edited July 2, 2017 by Grand Master Belial

[Brother Haim]

I would say unless assigned to the 1st Company, he would not be in Bone-White, but in the chapter's standard colors. Currently, we have no answers and can just assume that Gravis is the current Primaris TDA equivalent. The Deathwing will either included the new Armor or not. I feel like we'll get our answers soon enough. 

[Bryan Blaire]

Just remember, in 2nd Edition, there was a non-TDA bone white Dark Angel officer bearing what appears to be a Deathwing dagger on his belt on the cover of the Dark Millennium supplement. (You can find the cover image by a simple Google Search)

 

Take what you want to as gospel and run with it. ;) We don't all have to see things the same (that would be boring in something as varied as 40K).

Edited July 2, 2017 by Bryan Blaire

[Brother Sergeant Luther]

Sammael was inducted into the Deathwing/Inner Circle

Sammael was inducted into the Inner Circle when he became a Black Knight following the Rites of the Raven. He has never served in Deathwing.

[jbaeza94]

 

Sammael was inducted into the Deathwing/Inner Circle

Sammael was inducted into the Inner Circle when he became a Black Knight following the Rites of the Raven. He has never served in Deathwing.

The book Ravenwing (I think that's the right one) mentions this. It says all masters must have served in the deathwing. Odd thing is sammael never did. He got a field promotion, then confirmed afterwards by the inner circle as grand master of the Ravenwing. My guess is he received an honorary induction in order to keep with the all company masters are Deathwing tradition.

[Grotsmasha]

Just remember, in 2nd Edition, there was a non-TDA bone white Dark Angel officer bearing what appears to be a Deathwing dagger on his belt on the cover of the Dark Millennium supplement. (You can find the cover image by a simple Google Search)

Take what you want to as gospel and run with it. ;) We don't all have to see things the same (that would be boring in something as varied as 40K).

Well, half bone and half green....

[Brother Ramael]

Well, back when the world was young and the edition was the 2nd (I think), we used to have those...

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r155/khromash/deathwpa.jpg

 

That being said, I'd go with green for now.

Edited July 2, 2017 by Brother Ramael

[Master Sheol]

 

 

Sammael was inducted into the Deathwing/Inner Circle

Sammael was inducted into the Inner Circle when he became a Black Knight following the Rites of the Raven. He has never served in Deathwing.

The book Ravenwing (I think that's the right one) mentions this. It says all masters must have served in the deathwing. Odd thing is sammael never did. He got a field promotion, then confirmed afterwards by the inner circle as grand master of the Ravenwing. My guess is he received an honorary induction in order to keep with the all company masters are Deathwing tradition.

 

Acording to DA 2nd edition codex and DA 4th edition codex Sammael was the former Master of a Battle company an then promoted to master of 2nd Company

To be Master of a Battle Company you need to be first member of the DW