Company master in Gravis Armor color scheme

[jbaeza94]

Interesting. Sammael's black library ebook has a different story.

In it, it says he was part of the 8th assault company when he became a battle brother. 5 years later, he was a sgt in the eighth. His success caught master gideons eye, and not long after, he himself personally inducted sammael into the Ravenwing, and became the youngest Ravenwing member ever. Again, he had a quick promotion to sgt. At the battle of kaphon betis, he learned of cypher, and was informally inducted into the inner circle and black knights by Gideon , then formally when it was all over. On Kapua, the Ravenwing were targeted by the traitorous ire, a titan. In a large blast, master Gideon was sent flying and lay crushed beneath a giant slab, barely alive. Sammael asked what they should do, Gideon said "I cannot say, the company is yours to lead", and handed him the raven sword. The Ravenwing went on to destroy the reaver titan. On returning to the Rock, Sammael’s promotion was endorsed by the other Masters of the Chapter.

 

Sammael could very much be the exception.

Edited July 2, 2017 by jbaeza94

[Bryan Blaire]

Well, half bone and half green....

True, the central part of his armor is green (under-layer on the abdomen, arms out to the fists, thigh plating). That actually would almost make more sense for the Gravis, since it's an additional armor later bolted on over the central Mk10 suit.

For reference:

I think it would look pretty awesome to replicate something similar with the Gravis plate.

Edited July 2, 2017 by Bryan Blaire

[ronin_cse]

Hmmm well I think I am being swayed to the green side of things here mostly because we have a named Grand Master of the DW already.

 

I am predicting that when we get more models in Gravis armor, or maybe Aggressor armor, they might end up in the DW, but as everyone says we have to wait for a codex release.

[Grand Master Belial]

Remember that the Deathwing has two distinct definitions. You have the Deathwing (First) company and then there is the Deathwing organization that covers all Masters, Librarians, Int. Chaplains Veteran Sergeants and detached Veterans as well the First Company and also acts as the larger Inner Circle.

[Brother Sergeant Luther]

 

 

 

 

 

Sammael was inducted into the Deathwing/Inner Circle

Sammael was inducted into the Inner Circle when he became a Black Knight following the Rites of the Raven. He has never served in Deathwing.

The book Ravenwing (I think that's the right one) mentions this. It says all masters must have served in the deathwing. Odd thing is sammael never did. He got a field promotion, then confirmed afterwards by the inner circle as grand master of the Ravenwing. My guess is he received an honorary induction in order to keep with the all company masters are Deathwing tradition.

Acording to DA 2nd edition codex and DA 4th edition codex Sammael was the former Master of a Battle company an then promoted to master of 2nd Company

To be Master of a Battle Company you need to be first member of the DW

Sammael didn't exsist as a character until 4th ed. And I can find nothing in the 4th ed codex about him serving in a battle company

 

Remember that the Deathwing has two distinct definitions. You have the Deathwing (First) company and then there is the Deathwing organization that covers all Masters, Librarians, Int. Chaplains Veteran Sergeants and detached Veterans as well the First Company and also acts as the larger Inner Circle.

Could you provide a reference to this deathwing organisation. As I've only ever seen it refered to as the Inner Circle, with the Deathwing company making up an aspect of this

[Chaplain Lucifer]

Are people still discussing this? ;)

 

Terminators are painted bone white and company Masters in power armour are painted green. Since Gravis is not terminator armour, the Company Master is painted green because he is not serving with/leading the first Company. An easy rule of thumb that keeps it simple until we have more information.

Cheers!

Are people still discussing this? ;)

 

Terminators are painted bone white and company Masters in power armour are painted green. Since Gravis is not terminator armour, the Company Master is painted green because he is not serving with/leading the first Company. An easy rule of thumb that keeps it simple until we have more information.

Cheers!

[Master Sheol]

 

 

 

 

 

Sammael was inducted into the Deathwing/Inner Circle

Sammael was inducted into the Inner Circle when he became a Black Knight following the Rites of the Raven. He has never served in Deathwing.

The book Ravenwing (I think that's the right one) mentions this. It says all masters must have served in the deathwing. Odd thing is sammael never did. He got a field promotion, then confirmed afterwards by the inner circle as grand master of the Ravenwing. My guess is he received an honorary induction in order to keep with the all company masters are Deathwing tradition.

Acording to DA 2nd edition codex and DA 4th edition codex Sammael was the former Master of a Battle company an then promoted to master of 2nd Company

To be Master of a Battle Company you need to be first member of the DW

Sammael didn't exsist as a character until 4th ed. And I can find nothing in the 4th ed codex about him serving in a battle company

 

Remember that the Deathwing has two distinct definitions. You have the Deathwing (First) company and then there is the Deathwing organization that covers all Masters, Librarians, Int. Chaplains Veteran Sergeants and detached Veterans as well the First Company and also acts as the larger Inner Circle.

Could you provide a reference to this deathwing organisation. As I've only ever seen it refered to as the Inner Circle, with the Deathwing company making up an aspect of this

Belial 3rd Company

Sammael 4th Company

Sheol 5th Company

Codex DA 2nd edition

Heralardy sectiin where you can find the banners and names for the masters of the three Battle companies

 

Deathwing company is not part of the inner circle that is made by the Supreme Grand Master, Grand Masters, Masters, Grand Master of the Librarius, Grand Master of the Reclusium, Grand Master of the Apothecarium

Other Librarians and Interrogator Chaplains and some Apothecaries are just Inducted info the DW (even if not Always serving in the ranks of the company

Marines of the DW including the DWK are not part of the inner circle

 

The same Goes for the RW normal RW marines knows sometjing, BK knows a lot but not all and are tested to become DW

 

In other companies all marines know few or nothing and covets have Little knowledge and are tested to become DW

[jbaeza94]

Sammael was never in the 4th company in the newer fluff. He spent a few years I'm the 8th then went to the Ravenwing

[ronin_cse]

Are people still discussing this?

 

Terminators are painted bone white and company Masters in power armour are painted green. Since Gravis is not terminator armour, the Company Master is painted green because he is not serving with/leading the first Company. An easy rule of thumb that keeps it simple until we have more information.

Cheers!

 

 

Well that's kind of the point here is speculating if, since Gravis armor seems to be the primaris version of terminator armor, Gravis equipped marines would be part of the first company despite the lack of information. Hopefully when we get a full codex the question will be resolved.

 

From the description in Dark Imperium we also have aggressor armor coming out soon which IMO also sounds like even heavier armor so that might be the type that ends up in 1st company.

[Brother Sergeant Luther]

Belial 3rd Company

Sammael 4th Company

Sheol 5th Company

Codex DA 2nd edition

Heralardy sectiin where you can find the banners and names for the masters of the three Battle companies

 

Deathwing company is not part of the inner circle that is made by the Supreme Grand Master, Grand Masters, Masters, Grand Master of the Librarius, Grand Master of the Reclusium, Grand Master of the Apothecarium

Other Librarians and Interrogator Chaplains and some Apothecaries are just Inducted info the DW (even if not Always serving in the ranks of the company

Marines of the DW including the DWK are not part of the inner circle

 

The same Goes for the RW normal RW marines knows sometjing, BK knows a lot but not all and are tested to become DW

 

In other companies all marines know few or nothing and covets have Little knowledge and are tested to become DW

Well pg 11 of the 4th ed codex states the process of gaining entry into the inner circle, and only once the criteria was met were they raised into the deathwing, which to me indicates that the deathwing is the outer most level of the inner circle.

 

As has been mentioned Sammael in his most recent fluff went from 8th company to the 2nd, where he remained rising to the level of the black knights (the aspect of the inner circle) before becoming the grand master of the company. This supports that ravenwing don't move on to the deathwing, as does the master of sancity novel which has ravenwing and battle company Marines learning of the fallen being elevated into the black knights and deathwing respectively.

 

As for your claim that some interrogator chaplains and Libraians aren't inner circle... well that just goes gets established fluff from the last 3 editions (possibly longer but I don't have the 2nd or 3rd ed codex to hand)

[Grand Master Belial]

2nd for had ALL librarians and I believe all Chaplains were inducted into the Inner Circle (Deathwing Organization not the Company). It is true that there are circles within circles within circle. The Innermost Circle is Azrael, Ezekiel and I believe Sapphon as Asmodai is too obsessed to lead all the chaplains. With the introduction of the Int. Chaplains, the Chaplains were split to those who knew the secret and those who don't. 

 

Most of my knowledge goes back to 2nd Ed. So I am also in there with Master Sheol with thinking Sammael was promoted to the 2nd via the 4th and not the 8th.

[Master Sheol]

Sammael promoted from 8th to 2nd and then to command of the 2nd without being DW before was work of Thorpe in BL novel...

Thorpe that stated that some Master was not part of the DW

Thorpe  makes a lot of mistakes about the established fluff of DA from2nd edition to 7th edition

 

DA chapter/legion is outlined as circles within circles and you cannot climb the ranks of this organisation jumping from a circle to another...

This is the nature of the Chapter

[Bryan Blaire]

DA chapter/legion is outlined as circles within circles and you cannot climb the ranks of this organisation jumping from a circle to another...

This is the nature of the Chapter

Per your opinion. ;)

 

It's never been fully laid out. We actually don't know how convoluted the internal structure truly is or how exactly promotion works, and that I believe is specifically so that multiple interpretations can exist.

 

I prefer to believe that there are Venn diagrams within Venn diagrams due to different groups at different levels of the structure all having different amounts and types of knowledge, along with different group traditions. It makes for a much more interesting and plausible clandestine operation than a straightforward layer cake interpretation. Also, straight forward circles within circles doesn't allow for much of a spiral that was the heart of the Order.

 

But we've drifted away from discussing the possible paint layout.

[Brother Sergeant Luther]

Sammael promoted from 8th to 2nd and then to command of the 2nd without being DW before was work of Thorpe in BL novel...

Thorpe that stated that some Master was not part of the DW

Thorpe makes a lot of mistakes about the established fluff of DA from2nd edition to 7th edition

It is covered in the Warlords of the Dark Millenium: Masters of the Dark Angels book

 

Which provided the 6th edition rules as well as providing expanded back ground to all characters with models. You may not like it, but it doesn't stop it being Canon

[Brother Sergeant Luther]

DA chapter/legion is outlined as circles within circles and you cannot climb the ranks of this organisation jumping from a circle to another...

This is the nature of the Chapter

This isn't true.

 

Azrael went from a member of a Battle company to a deathwing knight in one jump.

 

Asmodi went from a tactical marine to interrogator chaplain in one jump.

[BlackTriton]

Lots of people seem to see the Inner circle as series of circle inside one another until you have the smallest being the chapter master and maybe a few other, making a clear hierarchy, a pyramid if you will.

I think we are supposed to see the inner circle as a chain mail, each circle unaware of one another, each serving its own purpose in its own way. each with its own secret and its own lies to better suit their purpose.

some small, some larger, some may even not be linked to the chapter master at all. 

Deathwing and ravenwing may be larges circles, but they certainly are not the only ones and neither are they the same.

 

But as far as color scheme is concerned, the deathwing color goes to member of the first company, the ravenwing color goes to the member of the second, any other is in green.

[Iron Lord]

Well, back when the world was young and the edition was the 2nd (I think), we used to have those...

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r155/khromash/deathwpa.jpg

 

 

I wonder - maybe the Dark Angels ought to get Vanguard and Sternguard Veterans, who wear white and are the 1st Company, but do not wear Terminator Armour?

 

The whole "Deathwing only ever deploy in Terminator Armour no matter what" idea never really made sense to me.

Same with "Only Ravenwing get bikes and speeders" for that matter.

 

In late 3e, the Updated version of the Dark Angels codex made it clear that some of the Reserve Companies got green-armoured bikes and speeders. 

 

But for a long time, this doesn't seem to have been an option.

 

Maybe Dark Angels should get these sort of options back?

[Grand Master Belial]

Or make the PA Veteran Squads be the Company Veterans... Just a thought.

 

I do miss the option for stock bikers painted green. 

[Berzul]

Or make the PA Veteran Squads be the Company Veterans... Just a thought.

 

I do miss the option for stock bikers painted green. 

 

You could just go full DIY Successor chapter, and paint the bikes green. Thats what I did

 

My army has DW terminators painted in grey with a blueish hue, and the bikers (regular bikers, anyway) in green.

[Brother Syddraf]

Isn't the Inceptor squad also in Gravis pattern armour? Answers yes

should they be bone as well?

 

I think not. Gravis pattern looks to be a heavy armour but in game terms it's still only 3+

[Brother Ramael]

 

Or make the PA Veteran Squads be the Company Veterans... Just a thought.

 

I do miss the option for stock bikers painted green. 

 

You could just go full DIY Successor chapter, and paint the bikes green. Thats what I did

 

My army has DW terminators painted in grey with a blueish hue, and the bikers (regular bikers, anyway) in green.

 

Technically, you can just slap in some SM bikers ( they just need the Adeptus Astartes keyword, they won't get rerolls from DA chars but hey..) and paint them green.

[ronin_cse]

Isn't the Inceptor squad also in Gravis pattern armour? Answers yes

should they be bone as well?

 

I think not. Gravis pattern looks to be a heavy armour but in game terms it's still only 3+

 

Well that is a good question. Why would you say they wouldn't be in the 1st company?

[Brother Syddraf]

@ronin_cse

Simply begin in a heavier power armour isn't the same as terminator armour. The Deathwing company is a very specialised formation. Their battle field role, tactics and deployment methods all honed in to fill a need. The same as the ravenwing.

Gravis armour as is now doesn't fit in that role. If the stormwing was still a thing i could definitely see them in that wing.

 

As for them being inducted into the deathwing and inner circle. Sure why not. The primaris librarians have the deathwing keyword. The circles in circles has stood for more than 10k years, a couple of new guys isn't going to stir the pot to much now.

 

So in a nut shell my opinion is Gravis armour should be green

[jbaeza94]

Anyone see the primaris aggressor too ? It seems like they have gravis and dual powerfist with mounted bolter and a cyclone missile launcher type weapon in top. I'm starting to feel gravis is the new "tda", and will fit into deathwing

[Brother Sergeant Luther]

It looks more centurion like then TDA to me. And with Gravis just being a variation of the Mk X with a (3+) I feel we will be seeing a termie Primaris in the future