BT & SW relations

[Jarl Caldersson]

I am in the process of writing a background for my SW's Company and how they emerged from being lost in the warp. I was going to have them follow another chapter for awhile until they could get their ship capable of running and return to Fenris. BT's were a initial first choice as it gives my SW some characteristics other than the overly-done... wolf theme *shudder*. My company would further their distrust/hatred of Psykers and also be prone to using swords (frost swords for leaders, chainswords for others). 

 

I am not sure how the initial encounter would go between these 2 chapters as I don't think there is a single book that has them meeting. Then how they would compliment each other further down the story. I don't think they would believe the Emperor is a god which would be a major conflict point. I would like to make my own SW version of a Emperor Champion, maybe a Lone Wolf using a Frost Sword and Storm Shield maybe.

 

If you guys could give me some ideas on how the relation and meeting would be like, I would appreciate it. Thanks.

[Sete]

SW would be seen as Heathens.

 

Eternal Crusader by Guy Haley.

 

The High Marshall looks to a wolf lord full of runes, fur and totems, and thinks he is a heathen.

 

They would get a cold reception that's sure, but they would not be denied help.

 

Also Wulfen would be shot on sight, and that would put a major if not irreparable strain on the relations.

 

But I do think after a few battles they would get along fine.

 

Ofc this is my opinion and view on the matter.

Edited June 29, 2017 by Sete

[Jarl Caldersson]

SW would be seen as Heathens.

Eternal Crusader by Guy Haley.

The High Marshall looks to a wolf lord full of runes, fur and totems, and thinks he is a heathen.

They would get a cold reception that's sure.

Also Wulfen would be shot on sight, and that would put a major if not irreparable strain on the relations.

But I do think after a few battles they would get along fine.

Ofc this is my opinion and view on the matter.

I kind of planned on the rune priests going insane due to being exposed to pure warp energy vs the "purified warp energy from fenris". Thus their already suspicion of psykers being further enhanced and being suspicious of their own rune priest and runes. My company wouldnt have wulfen as the company is mostly shattered and battle-hardened while those that were vulnerable to it would have turned and perished.

 

These 2 things were easy for me to accept, as I rather like the old story where wulfen were only kept so they could go into a rage and fight 1 last time to seek redemption for their failure in turning.

[Ciler]

Having said that, BTs and SW would also have some common grounds.

 

Although yes, the fetishes thing would probably be looked down upon, but at the same time I think they would be viewed as the "noble savage", in so far as they share with BT an undisputable devotion to the emperor and imperium, a certain proficiency in close combat and... a hatred of psykers. 

 

I mean sure, rune priests, but those aren't really psykers right ?

[DBadger]

While I've always viewed SW as being as close to Chaos as you can get without turning, having only their still undiminished loyalty to the Emperor holding them back (but not their loyalty to Codex), there is some sense in the BT taking them in so they can repent and so the BT can cleanse them. I'm not sure the Wulfen would stand much chance and I doubt the BT techies would touch a Leman Russ.

[Othniel's Blade]

Check out Bladewolf/Lord Blackwood's project, the 'Marked Wulf' Crusade.

[Marshal Reinhard]

Now that we believe in the imperial creed, it would mean we wouldn't get along with most other chapters if "religious beliefs" decided who we could get along with. While I think this is just another reason why that part of our new plot is poorly thought out, I guess we can't really use it for a basis on wether or not we get along with other chapters.

 

That said, i find it hard to believe we (or any other astartes) could stomach the Wulfen. I don't really get the impression SW parade them around much for that very reason.

[War Eagle]

I can't help it. I feel uneasy just reading these words. I mean,some of our High-Marshalls had often enough serious trouble even with our own kin (even Imp.Fists).

 

The only relation with SW is, that they are also developped by our emprah. So we possibly can't deny if our help is needed.

But other tnan that....I mean Runepriests who seem to be connected to chaotic forces, Wulfen which are probably more Xenos then even a heretic space marine.....brothers, in all honesty, what good could come out of that...think about it for a moment and go first for some prayers to clean your mind. Then , our emprah will have the right answer for us.

Edited June 29, 2017 by War Eagle

[Ciler]

As Reinhard pointed, it's not like the Wolves parade Wulfens around. And anyway, most Space Marines chapters are isolationists anyway.

 

In many ways, I think that for one chapter to have a healthy dose of respect for another is just about as best as can be hoped. And I think that that's about how Templars would view Wolves.

[War Eagle]

There were indeed occassions, when we worked with and departed from other Chapters in a kind of, what we would call "deep friendship".

One such occassion comes to my mind, during the Crusade of Wrath ( 869M41. )  when we faught alongside the Lamenters, Mantis Warriors and notably the Astral Claws,  the so called Maelstrom Warders,  under the lead of Lugft Huron against the traitors of the Word Bearers Legion.

 

This Crusade was nothing but honor for the Astartes involved, but , at the end, lead to what we all know as the Badab War and the bitter end for the Chapters aforementioned.

Had we not been removed from this battle in order to support the beleagered Ultramar, who knows, maybe the Badab War would have never happend and many a brave brothers would have served the emprah better then dying in a civil war against each other.

[Jarl Caldersson]

Well if this helps, my wolf lord is pretty cold and stern, the opposite of the previous late wolf lord. He believes the wulfen are cursed and that have failed to prove themselves as capable warriors. The only use for them is to perform suicide runs to redeem themselves. The current warriors have all passed this and learn to control themselves proving themselves, hence the high number of wolf guard. Being superstitious he doesnt trust rune priest, when a couple go insane in the warp and begin to become corrupt and assault the company he has them brought down and refuses to use psykers believeing, like the wulfen, they are cursed. Only using them when ordered to.

 

I was going to open with them meeting under extremely (cant think of word but not good and not sure what the other will do, i am exhausted). They stand unsure if the other will attack or not. When the Wolf Priest would remark about the beauty of the Emperors Champion sword. Thus breaking the ice and having them offer a friendly challenge against the Emperors Champion which is denied noting it would be a suicide and their sword skill reach even Fenris. The BT would be suspicious of the SW but learning their hatred of psykers and seeing no wulfen aboard would be friendlier. Eventually training together to improve the SW sword skills. This is accepted by the Wolf Priests seeing as they need to be as strong and skilled as possible due to the company small sized.

 

How does that sound to start. Its difficult to write about BT and keeping true to their background but accepting someone like the SWs.

[War Eagle]

Well Bro, each to it's own. Hence you can certainly define whatever your fantasy let's you as a backgrounf for your story.

It's your hobby and your chapters....

 

From a purist BT point of view ( and which other view a BT could have, I ask you ) this story sounds to weird to me and a bit too "created for fit".

 

If being the emperors champion and someone I outright distrust would make whatever remark on my sword, I'd say "taste it"...Do you really think that any BT worth it's purity seals would fall prey so easily to sweet words , actually spoken from a SW, of whom I wouldn't even expect that he could speak in such a way.

 

I think, personally, you try to push hard to put something together which simply doesn't belong together. The right glue is missing.

 

Each of the two chapters have a lot to go fore in terms of lore / fluff but also the way one can play them. So I wouldn't go great length and try to water down the characteristics of either one of them by mixing them.

 

If I wouldn't have so many chapters already, I would seriously think about starting a SW Chapter aside from my others. But I would always keep them separate and play them as entire army on it's own. They are made for that, as are BT, Blood Angles and some other great chapters.

 

Anyway, wish you lot of success with your ideas and rest assured, as long as you treat both chapters with the respect they deserve, the emperors blessings will be with you, whether you're a son of Russ or one of Dorn !

Edited July 1, 2017 by War Eagle

[Marshal_Roujakis]

War Eagle's some what right...

 

But you also have to consider, Wulfen is a latest addition to the Space Wolves roster, and while Templars may disapprove with Librarians or psykers in general, they don't necessarily shun an entire Chapter just because they have a Librarian in their rank somewhere in their Chapter keep/fortress... otherwise, they'd never help the Crimson Fist... or the Shadow Wolves... or the Ultramarines... or the Celestial Lions...

 

It wouldn't be necessary to harm the Space Wolves background just for them to work with Templars... you could just treat the Templars and the Space Wolves relations similar to how Dorn treats Leman Russ... he knows Russ is a great warrior, an excellent fighter, a ferocious opponent, but he's also brash, can be easily manipulated, too arrogant and loud...

 

The Templars can just exemplify that, a Space Wolves battle group bumps into a Templar Crusade... the Templars don't necessarily mind it, they just see a bunch of other Astartes who are noisy, constantly drinking, have weird accents, smelly and keeps an overabundant amount of fur... they fight together against a common foe, with the Wolves spouting something about writing sagas about the heroism of the Templars and their ferocity in combat... the Templars note that they have... really large dogs....

 

The Wolves would keep quiet about any Wulfen... as if they're some sort of myth, and the Templars wouldn't really pry too much either as long as they can see that the Space Wolves are doing their job... and you could keep the Psyker Wolf in the fluff, but you could also make it a point that the Wolf Lord and the Rune Priest are close friends, but the Lord has warned the mutant sternly to stay away from ANY Templars... as he wouldn't know what they'd do to him... (probably something involving a lot of Prometheum and a duck...)

 

There really is no need to force Space Wolves to become similar to Templars covered in fur... you could keep their flavor, but keep the Templars flavor a well, but also keep their distance against each other, especially considering that both Chapters would have their own secrets to keep... (Space Wolves Wulfen, Templars sheer number of Battle Brothers...)

[Firepower]

It does come across that you're on the verge of bending over backwards to make your Wolves palatable to the Templars. Don't be afraid to have conflict between factions in your fluff, so long as it doesn't break out into armed conflict.  Well, actually that can be interesting, too.  

 

At any rate, it may be more interesting for the two Chapters to develop a begrudging respect/acceptance for each other by interaction, rather than have the Templars come along once insular reflection has already molded the Wolves to their tastes.

[BT_Cennar]

I play a BT and SW armys but never used them alongside eachother couse they dont match in my opinion.

 

But i dont think there would be any problem as long as the wolfen are kept in chains deep in the belly of a battle barge so no Templar sees them.

Other then that i think the BTs would not mind SW to fight with them .

BTs  know what misstrust is. They face it every day for worship the God-Emperor, And if you think about it : Fenris was never brought inline with the Imprial-Truth doctrine. So every Fenrisian is raised with the religious belive in the Allfather. And even as they are turned into Astartes they never realy loose it. They still speak of the  Emperor as the Allfather. They misstrust every Psyker, and belive the Runepriests take their Energy from Fenris not from the Warp. AAAND :SWs favor Face-to-Face combat.Lots of commonground

 

At the end of the day i think as long as Wolfen are kept out there wouldnt be much Trouble.. Just dont let them fight in the same squads,

[Ciler]

It does come across that you're on the verge of bending over backwards to make your Wolves palatable to the Templars. Don't be afraid to have conflict between factions in your fluff, so long as it doesn't break out into armed conflict.  Well, actually that can be interesting, too.  

 

At any rate, it may be more interesting for the two Chapters to develop a begrudging respect/acceptance for each other by interaction, rather than have the Templars come along once insular reflection has already molded the Wolves to their tastes.

I second this. They don't have to be best buddies, just some level of acceptance.

[War Eagle]

Reading the above, the brothers say, in different words and with slightly different arguments, more or less the same.

Don't try to bend things which should stay upright, each on it's own.

 

If our emperor wanted to be Russ and Dorn best friends, he would certainly had enough time to "foster" that over the millenia.

I believe, he wanted exactly all the differences in order to have the chapters complement each other in a much broader view to the best of mankind.

 

So for me, in a nutshell, the answer is pretty clear : having detachments of both chapters fighting along each other as battlebrothers in specific missions, sure....everything else and beyond....too questionable for my taste.

[Ciler]

So for me, in a nutshell, the answer is pretty clear : having detachments of both chapters fighting along each other as battlebrothers in specific missions, sure....everything else and beyond....too questionable for my taste.

And yet again, BT and SW are among the most "non standard" chapters around, so it isn't a big stretch to imagine that an isolated crusade could run into a pack and through a number of shared battles could become closer than the norm. Obviously, if the pack flaunts its rune priests and wulfen this won't happen, but some packs have neither of these.

[Honda]

I'm not sure how well we would get along with Wolves.

 

I know we don't think much of Salamanders Lizards.

[gally912]

I go so far as to call every space wolf and blood angel (player) a dangerous mutant not to be tolerated, but what do I know? :-D.

 

There is plenty of common ground, however, and if there were ever a war council held, vis a vis Armageddon, the two would likely fall on similar or even the same side in terms of battle doctrine and overall strategy.

 

Just keep the mutants at arms length, and you should be fine. But then again...There are no wolves on Fenris

[Kastor Krieg]

I mean sure, rune priests, but those aren't really psykers right ?

+ WITCH. +

[War Eagle]

No time anymore today. Have to go for my daily prayers. Any wolf here joining in ?